Mike
C-U Townie
Just guessing sb's of the opinion that principles are more important than the opinion that ends justify the means.
People will understandably probably be on one side of this or the other. Ridiculous it is not.
FBI College Basketball Corruption Investigation
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Just guessing sb's of the opinion that principles are more important than the opinion that ends justify the means.
People will understandably probably be on one side of this or the other. Ridiculous it is not.
sbillini
- st petersburg, fl
Correct. It's one thing to put kids futures at risk for your own benefit when they're not your kids. It's wholly another when they're your own kids (and, very much secondarily, the $$$$ involved is likely a lot lower since you only have one kid to cash in on).
Both are bad. But when it's your own child, that takes it to another level. Not saying that parents are culpable in all these scenarios, but in the ones they are, I think they should be treated just as, if not more, harshly than the coaches/company execs.
Just put this out there, but NC sports radio host (David Glenn) said he took an informal poll of coaches he knows and would answer the question...How many of the major programs are cheating at the paying recruit level. Estimates he got ranged from 50% - 25%, with the caveat that in those numbers there were schools they know were cheating from feedback from players and others that they were only speculating on.
Here is what he bio on chat sports says:
"Brian Rauf is the Lead Columnist for Chat Sports covering the NBA and NFL, along with college basketball, college football and MLB. He is from Cary, NC and is a proud graduate of the University of South Carolina, big Frank Martin supporter. Brian has MULTIPLE SOURCES inside the NCAA Basketball/FBI scandal, with deep knowledge of the federal government's investigation. (Side note, also big fan of Brad Underwood)."
https://www.chatsports.com/writers/brian-rauf/
mattcoldagelli
- Script Illinois Enthusiast
I don't follow this at all.
Let's say you've got multiple children. The $50K you get for Oldest Kid will substantially improve the lives of Middle Kid and Youngest Kid - you're a terrible person for taking that when everyone is (accurately) reassuring you that pretty much everyone else is doing it, too? And not just terrible, but in your eyes, worse than the people that are fueling that system?
Trying to see what's so difficult to understand. Players and parents are all pawns in this entire thing. Look at the source, not the result.
Have you been involved with AAU? I have, for many years. I have seen and continue to see the transformation and effect of shoe companies involvement. You have to understand the socioeconomic dynamics of the people involved as well. These players and parents come into basketball and AAU at younger ages, middle school, some even elementary school. You think they are corrupt? They are not corrupt in basketball/sports coming in (irrespective of their legal status). The system creates corrupt players and parents coming out.
sbillini
- st petersburg, fl
I guess I'll have to break it down a bit more...
Using your scenario - That $50k you get. If you don't take that $$, you are maximizing the chance of your child having a successful career that he/she has worked extremely hard for. If you take it, you just reduced the chances - potentially meaningfully - because you know (or should know) that if it gets exposed, the kid will no longer be eligible.
In your scenario, you're potentially sacrificing one kid's career success for others.
Call me naive, but the whole argument of "everybody's doing it" justification is a joke. And the people fueling the system argument - there's nothing to fuel (in these circumstances, I'm separating from the funneling to agents/advisors situations) if you don't take the $.
Again, I point to the Cliff Alexander situation. His parents actions when he was at Kansas was arguably a huge detriment to his career. I know it wasn't illegal, but it arguably should be.
Deleted member 10676
D
Guest
Reading the comments to this, at least some AZ fans want Miller gone before this thing really blows. Rogue assistant coaches and assistant athletic directors is only going to get you a pass from the NCAA, not so much with FBI. I really see the next ones to go down as Miller, Pearl and Johnson. Probably Larranaga.
https://www.azdesertswarm.com/baske...-150000-fbi-documents-charges-book-richardson
https://www.azdesertswarm.com/baske...-150000-fbi-documents-charges-book-richardson
Sorry, I'm still holding parents accountable. Kids maybe pawns, but parents should know better.
Cliff Alexander was the biggest detriment to Cliff Alexander's career.
mattcoldagelli
- Script Illinois Enthusiast
Ok, I will!
Set aside all the Cliff/woe-is-Illinois butthurt - anyone analyzing that situation rationally should agree that you should take the money. Obviously nobody knows the percentage likelihood of negative consequences of doing so, but I'm guessing it was vanishingly small. So the most likely outcome is you would get money now and money later (should the kid make it to pros), with the former acting as a decent stand-in insurance policy against injury/underachievement/bad luck.
kcib8130
- Parts Unknown
You must be one of those people that gives out apples and toothbrushes for Halloween.
If anyone here says they wouldn't take large amounts of money and have no consequence, you're just fooling yourself. Everyone would take the kickbacks in a heartbeat.
I can agree somewhat to what you're saying, and there is definitely a more guilty party in this scenario.
Parents in this scheme deserve a share of the blame. Assuming all parents are too ignorant to know they're participating in something illegal can only go so far.
The parents see the easy money and understand that their kid may not make it all the way, so as long as they don't see any reprocussions for accepting money what's to stop them?
I see a situation where one hand feeds the other. If parents turn down bribes, the corruption doesn't happen.
The corporations involved should suffer the harshest punishments, along with any employees involved in the schools.
The parents involved should recieve a minor punishment to make a statement that their involvement will have consequences.
Just my opinion though.
I guess I don't have the respect for the FBI and the Department of Justice that you and some others on here seem to have.
Anyone with an ounce of ethics knows it is wrong to take cash bribe on your kid's account. I can't believe we are even discussing the opposite.
No, it wouldn't apply to us. Unless Underwood gets some type of suspension. That was the point I was trying to make.
Also, it sounds like the NCAA definitely knew what was going on, but were unaware of the FBI investigation.
Kid has updated his bio in the last few hours because there wasn't anything about Underwood or the FBI scandal on it late this morning.
I've got a feeling he is REALLY hoping to cash in on this whole thing (don't blame him) given that it doesn't seem like his Chat Sports is really much of anything. Also more than somewhat skeptical that he actually has any kind of substantial source on this thing given his credentials.
ILL in IA
- Iowa City
It may not apply to all of them, but I wont fault kids or parents for taking money that they may need badly to help get through life at that time.
I would tend to believe that sooner or later someone (to big a risk if I'm a 5*) is going to get caught. No matter how small the risk, why take it? Even if you don't make it to the league at this point you can get an education. If you take the money (call it $50,000) and you get caught you probably aren't getting either at that point.
Also, the investigation that is currently underway is why you don't take the money. Don't care how small the chances are, the chance is still there.
The problem here is that if you take money under the table, you can't report it and that becomes tax evasion. You can go to jail for that.
SublimeBeast
- Dieterich, IL
Anyone with any morality wouldn't take the money - it's flat our WRONG. My teen kids use the "everyone else is doing it" argument - adults/parents should never use it, it's juvenile and a cop-out - pure and simple.
The blame belongs to the adults involved - both sides. People have lost their moral compass.
Been off here a few days and come back to this. Just a few weeks before a new hoops era is about to unfold and now this. Unfreakingbelievable.
Being a mere tax atty (and retired at that), I wonder if some of the attys in here with criminal experience could summarize this mess, as best known at this point and as applicable to Illinois (too old and decrepit to look into in detail myself). What would be the worst case, Fed-criminal-wise, for Underwood here? Is there any chance/theory he could be caught doing what Evans et al are charged with? If he knew it was going on but didn't participate is he safe or potentiially caught via a conspiracy or aiding/abetting concept under Fed law? How long has this investigation been going on, i.e., when is the earliest BU -- theoretically -- could have been caught on tape doing something illegal? What is the statute of limitations for the potential Fed crimes involved here, i.e., what years can BU be worried about, if he indeed needs to worry? Just wondering about the Fed criminal aspects for now; ignoring what the swine at NCAA might assert later. Thanks.
Being a mere tax atty (and retired at that), I wonder if some of the attys in here with criminal experience could summarize this mess, as best known at this point and as applicable to Illinois (too old and decrepit to look into in detail myself). What would be the worst case, Fed-criminal-wise, for Underwood here? Is there any chance/theory he could be caught doing what Evans et al are charged with? If he knew it was going on but didn't participate is he safe or potentiially caught via a conspiracy or aiding/abetting concept under Fed law? How long has this investigation been going on, i.e., when is the earliest BU -- theoretically -- could have been caught on tape doing something illegal? What is the statute of limitations for the potential Fed crimes involved here, i.e., what years can BU be worried about, if he indeed needs to worry? Just wondering about the Fed criminal aspects for now; ignoring what the swine at NCAA might assert later. Thanks.
mattcoldagelli
- Script Illinois Enthusiast
Well, right - that's kind of my point. Up until Tuesday, the odds were very much in your favor.
And as for why you would take a small risk, I feel like we've covered that.
Underwood's name never came up in any recorded conversations. There would be absolutely nothing to prove he knew about this in any way shape or form.
If Underwood had been name dropped and connected to this the feds would have showed up to Illinois as well.
The funniest is that one of the guys involved in this for Alabama (that was canned yesterday) was actually an ex NCAA enforcer. Go figure.
If Underwood had been name dropped and connected to this the feds would have showed up to Illinois as well.
The funniest is that one of the guys involved in this for Alabama (that was canned yesterday) was actually an ex NCAA enforcer. Go figure.
It's probably not smart to talk in absolutes - i.e. "anyone with any morality."
I'd hazard that 90+% of posters on this board have never lived like most of these recruits and their families have lived. When you barely have two bills to rub together, a cash bribe becomes more than a moral issue.
Walk a mile, people.
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