FBI College Basketball Corruption Investigation

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#901      

geneseo

G
geneseo
mattcoldagelli said:
I don't follow this at all.

Let's say you've got multiple children. The $50K you get for Oldest Kid will substantially improve the lives of Middle Kid and Youngest Kid - you're a terrible person for taking that when everyone is (accurately) reassuring you that pretty much everyone else is doing it, too? And not just terrible, but in your eyes, worse than the people that are fueling that system?
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Correct me if I am misunderstanding.

So you have some sort of contract where you get the $50K and your child gets the obligation to perform for these operators? Sounds like your stealing $50K from your child. Seems like a pretty terrible thing to do.
 
#902      

deadpool81

D
deadpool81
Once we get past the sensationalism of all these arrests and investigations, I really hope the narrative shifts to take a hard look at the NCAA amateur system once and for all. The NCAA created this problem and then pretended it didn't exist.

Everything that happened in these cases -- all the alleged crimes, all the bribes, all of the conspiring, all of it -- is due to the fact that some of these kids cannot be openly and directly paid what they are worth or they will lose their amateur status in the eyes of the NCAA.

Until that's addressed, none of this stops.
 
#903      

RichBradIllini

RichBradIllini
Peoria
RichBradIllini
LJ22 said:
The whole conversation got started when someone suggested that parents should be held responsible for accepting recruit money the same as the booster/school/coach/shoe company/etc. They may have made a bad ethical decision to accept the money, but does that mean they should be held just as responsible as a multi-billion dollar athletic company who is taking advantage of their situation?
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Does that mean they shouldn't be held responsible at all? Because that's what's being advocated here. Take this money because everyone else is.

If parents driving their kids to be the income generators and that then is not considered part of the overall problem that we're talking about then I don't know what to say.
 
#904      

mattcoldagelli

mattcoldagelli
The Transfer Portal with Do Not Contact Tag
mattcoldagelli
RichBradIllini said:
Does that mean they shouldn't be held responsible at all? Because that's what's being advocated here. Take this money because everyone else is.
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Nope, the bold is wrong! This started when someone claimed the parents were worse actors in all of this than the coaches/handlers.
 
#905      

Qwiksilvur

Q
Qwiksilvur
Coach 2 - Rick Pitino

Player-1: Mustapha Heron (Auburn)
Player-2: Austin Wiley (Auburn)
Player-3: Sindarius Thornwell or PJ Dozier (South Carolina)
Player-4: Current OKSt player (as of report date)
Player-5: Jahvon Quinerly
Player-6: Current AZ player (as of report date)
Player-7: Current AZ player (as of report date)
Player-8: Current USC player (as of report date)
Player-9: Current USC player (as of report date)
Player-10: Brian Bowen
Player-11: 1family AAU related
Player-12: Nassir Little

Sources are mostly the respective teams SBNation sites/Rivals (Arizona's being the most in depth) and please keep in mind this isn't confirmed though Bowen, Little, and Pitino are as close as you can get.
 
#906      

Ulysses Everett McGill

Ulysses Everett McGill
Ulysses Everett McGill
GForce said:
How would you claim that income on your taxes? I don't imagine the bag of cash comes with a 1099 form attached to it.
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First, you don't claim income you report it. (You claim deductions.) You certainly wouldn't receive a 1099 from the payor but you don't need one to report the income. Never having done it, or thought about it a whole lot, I'd venture the most logical place to report it would be as miscellaneous income, and since it's arguably for services, I'd guess it belongs on a Sch C (with the payments also reported on Sch SE to capture the self-employment tax).
 
#907      

sdfidaho

sdfidaho
Boise, Idaho
sdfidaho
Ulysses Everett McGill said:
First, you don't claim income you report it. (You claim deductions.) You certainly wouldn't receive a 1099 from the payor but you don't need one to report the income. Never having done it, or thought about it a whole lot, I'd venture the most logical place to report it would be as miscellaneous income, and since it's arguably for services, I'd guess it belongs on a Sch C (with the payments also reported on Sch SE to capture the self-employment tax).
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That's what I was thinking, and that's probably how it was done in almost every case 😉
 
#908      

RichBradIllini

RichBradIllini
Peoria
RichBradIllini
mattcoldagelli said:
Nope, the bold is wrong! This started when someone claimed the parents were worse actors in all of this than the coaches/handlers.
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I was responding to you and 'take the money because every one else is' thought process. And, I don't think they're worse than but I also think there a part of.
 
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#909      

frozenrope9190

frozenrope9190
Aurora, IL
frozenrope9190
LJ22 said:
It's probably not smart to talk in absolutes - i.e. "anyone with any morality."

I'd hazard that 90+% of posters on this board have never lived like most of these recruits and their families have lived. When you barely have two bills to rub together, a cash bribe becomes more than a moral issue.

Walk a mile, people.
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Which is why someone's earlier comment that the parents are pawns as well as the kids rings true. The shoe companies and universities know the situations a lot of the families face. If poverty wasn't an issue and families were in more of a position to turn down offers knowing they don't have to worry about how to keep the electricity on, they wouldn't be preyed upon, dangling a bit of cash upfront. It's easier to dip your toes in murkier waters when the alternative is not feeding your children.
 
#910      

GForce

GForce
GForce
Ulysses Everett McGill said:
First, you don't claim income you report it. (You claim deductions.) You certainly wouldn't receive a 1099 from the payor but you don't need one to report the income. Never having done it, or thought about it a whole lot, I'd venture the most logical place to report it would be as miscellaneous income, and since it's arguably for services, I'd guess it belongs on a Sch C (with the payments also reported on Sch SE to capture the self-employment tax).
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Ok. I thought you might report it as gambling winnings. Siring a 7-foot athletic freak of nature is kind of like winning the lottery.
 
#911      

CoolPapaDels

C
CoolPapaDels
GForce said:
Ok. I thought you might report it as gambling winnings. Siring a 7-foot athletic freak of nature is kind of like winning the lottery.
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That would put the parents in the uncomfortable position of having to claim one of their less athletically inclined children as gambling losses. :eek:
 
#912      

LJ22

L
Chicago, IL
LJ22
RichBradIllini said:
Does that mean they shouldn't be held responsible at all? Because that's what's being advocated here. Take this money because everyone else is.

If parents driving their kids to be the income generators and that then is not considered part of the overall problem that we're talking about then I don't know what to say.
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It seems to me - I'm not an AAU expert by any means - that the parents are not "driving their kids to be income generators." They see that the way out for others has been sports, so their kids play sports. If they develop the talent (and have the right handlers), they get paid. I don't think the parents in the situations we're talking about see this as traditional income generation, it is just the way the lucky few are made a little better off.

Of course it is *part* of the overall problem. But if they weren't living in poverty in the first place, there wouldn't be incentive for companies to bribe them, nor for them to take the money. It goes a lot deeper than a black and white hierarchy of blame.
 
#913      

Renegade19

R
Renegade19
LJ22 said:
Can I personally understand taking the money? No. But I've been fortunate to never need to consider it (not that I've had the option).

I can appreciate that it is "wrong" but also appreciate that it is wrong that these kids are growing up in the circumstances they are to begin with.
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I've had to make the turn down dirty money decision but not as an athlete. There's an old Irish proverb that basically says "Once you touch the devil, you can never let go".
Back to lurking now.
 
#914      

Renegade19

R
Renegade19
WhiteRhino said:
Has this been posted, yet (sorry, hard to keep up with this thread)? Jay Williams (former Duke and Bulls player) funneled $250,000 to Kevin Love's AAU coach in 2009 while working as a recruiter for a sports agency. Love did not end up signing with the agency, partly because he didn't want to work with someone "reckless" like Jay Williams.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...-paid-kevin-loves-aau-coach-250000/106062594/
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Imagine that. And from a Dukie no less.
 
#915      

RichBradIllini

RichBradIllini
Peoria
RichBradIllini
LJ22 said:
It's probably not smart to talk in absolutes - i.e. "anyone with any morality."

I'd hazard that 90+% of posters on this board have never lived like most of these recruits and their families have lived. When you barely have two bills to rub together, a cash bribe becomes more than a moral issue.

Walk a mile, people.
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I do get this. But kids don't fall out of the sky into a parents lap at age 17. These kids are identified at an early age and are pushed and pushed and when the talent is marketable soon the hand comes out and the kid becomes the family et al kash kow. I've heard as many stories of a parent/uncle/whoever having a hand out when coach arrives as I have a coach offering money out of the blue.

My argument is the kid is used as a pre-meditated meal ticket. The kid is the pawn in all of this and that's my problem/point.
 
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#917      

geneseo

G
geneseo
frozenrope9190 said:
Which is why someone's earlier comment that the parents are pawns as well as the kids rings true. The shoe companies and universities know the situations a lot of the families face. If poverty wasn't an issue and families were in more of a position to turn down offers knowing they don't have to worry about how to keep the electricity on, they wouldn't be preyed upon, dangling a bit of cash upfront. It's easier to dip your toes in murkier waters when the alternative is not feeding your children.
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Plenty of people with plenty of money would take it too. They maybe even more likely. It's easy money is what it is.
 
#918      

LJ22

L
Chicago, IL
LJ22
SeattleSlim said:
Depending on the era and situation, some might even call that "pimping", "trafficking", or "slavery". Justifiable? You be the judge.
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Is this actually true, though? What if the kid doesn't make it to the NBA? Or what if they kid gets to the NBA and decides he wants a different agent?
 
#919      

Mike

Mike
C-U Townie
Mike
LJ22 said:
It seems to me - I'm not an AAU expert by any means - that the parents are not "driving their kids to be income generators." They see that the way out for others has been sports, so their kids play sports. If they develop the talent (and have the right handlers), they get paid. I don't think the parents in the situations we're talking about see this as traditional income generation, it is just the way the lucky few are made a little better off.

Of course it is *part* of the overall problem. But if they weren't living in poverty in the first place, there wouldn't be incentive for companies to bribe them, nor for them to take the money. It goes a lot deeper than a black and white hierarchy of blame.
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I haven't agreed with a lot of what you have said recently ;), but think you hit the nail on the head here. Guessing a lot of these kids incorrectly are thinking their only way to succeed in life is through sports.
 
#921      

TrueNorth

T
TrueNorth
mattcoldagelli said:
Nope, the bold is wrong! This started when someone claimed the parents were worse actors in all of this than the coaches/handlers.
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I think here the parents are worse than you're making them out to be. I would imagine a significant percentage of CBB players come from below the poverty line. I also would imagine that most coaches don't engage in this behavior and are fairly upstanding people, like JFG (yea I said it!, I can still like the person). So those coaches lose out on the small percentage of kids with parents with their hands out (which we're familiar with). The ones that win with those kids are the coaches willing to break the rules and bribe, which all parties involved know is inherently wrong.

So basically you have a parent, about to send their kid off to school, with a potential for a great future. Their criteria should be 1) What gives my kid the best chance to succeed as a player and make it to the next level and 2) The people watching him better be good people who will steer him in the right direction.

Instead they jeopardize #1 with illegality and send him off to a coach who from the start has demonstrated loose morals. All to profit off of his hard work. This is the inverse of the middle class parent who sacrifices to afford to send his kid to Harvard.
 
#922      

LJ22

L
Chicago, IL
LJ22
SeattleSlim said:
Would you take money to obligate your kid to do something?
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I am wondering if there is any actual obligation, though. What if the kid decides he doesn't want to hold up his end? I am honestly wondering how that would work here.

Also, it is a broad question. Do parents sign their kids up to model for commercials or something like that and take the money? I'm sure. I think it's kind of creepy and personally wouldn't do it, but I'm sure that happens all the time.
 
#924      

IlliniJim20

I
IlliniJim20
kcib8130 said:
You must be one of those people that gives out apples and toothbrushes for Halloween.

If anyone here says they wouldn't take large amounts of money and have no consequence, you're just fooling yourself. Everyone would take the kickbacks in a heartbeat.
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Really? EveryOne?

Fine, take the money, kickback, bribe whatever you want to call it.

Just don't whine if you get caught.

Just because I have morals and ethics I suddenly give out "apples and toothbrushes "for Halloween?

I wold not take any money, so don't lump me in that group.
 
#925      

Obelix

Obelix
Obelix
IlliniJim20 said:
Sorry, I'm still holding parents accountable. Kids maybe pawns, but parents should know better.
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Being pawns in this entire scheme does not exonerate parents or players. There are legal consequences, which the judicial system will decide. Heck, some players are already getting penalized (held out of competition) even before the courts have decided, in order to minimize the legal exposure of much bigger players above (e.g., universities).

But the statement that:

What I really want to see is some kids and their families go under the hammer.

http://www.illinoisloyalty.com/Forums/showpost.php?p=1332923&postcount=888
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is not only ridiculous, it is beyond ridiculous IMO.
 
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