Football Coaching Staff / Coaching Carousel Thread

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#576      

Deleted member 11196

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Barry Alvarez was a successful collegiate defensive coordinator when he was hired. What was the largest margin of defeat in those early years? My point is this: You can't possibly be serious comparing Lovie Smith to Barry Alvarez, even if you give Lovie the "first year pass."

I was responding to a post that talked about how bad Wisconsin was, 'and then Barry Alvarez came to town'.... Which I highlighted and quoted.

My post was meant to show that even the GREAT Barry Alvarez didn't come in and win immediately. It took TIME for him to get his system going. I'm sorry you didn't get the POINT of that...
 
#577      

ChiefGritty

Chicago, IL
There’s seriously no argument to be made for keeping Lovie.

Let me do my best to offer that.

1. The defense is the problem with this team. It's a young, pretty talented group that has underperformed to a truly hard to believe extent. We've been operating with an undermanned and under-qualified defensive staff this season, so maybe that should be less of a shock than it seemed. We have the opportunity to fix that this offseason. And in fixing that we can address some of our recruiting shortcomings as well.

2. The age and experience of the roster is going to look much, much better next year. The "one of the youngest" stuff is over. That alone can work a kind of magic.

3. The schedule is crazy weak next year. Add #1-3 and a bowl, even as bad as we look right now, is probably a pretty decent possibility. That would still be true of another coaching staff, but with the turbulence and scheme change that another staff would bring, our best chance at success in 2019 alone is probably Lovie.

4. The money is a factor. Forget about whether we CAN pay the buyout, whatever resources we dedicate in that direction this offseason, we could have a lot more next offseason if it doesn't go well.

So I think the case, in summary is, we have open resources to dedicate to the problem area of the team and the staff this offseason, we're entering the roster situation we've been building towards, and we've got the games scheduled to really turn this thing around in a dramatic fashion. Plus, we know going in that this is a make-or-break year, and Whitman can be prepared both mentally and financially to have our best foot forward if "break" is the outcome.

(My biggest worry about that case: what happens to the roster in the meantime? Are there a ton more transfers? Do we sign a terrible class and put a hole in the program? Those are the questions I'd be asking if I were Whitman. You need to make sure you have a roster to hand to the next guy. In theory we can do that next year, but only in theory.)
 
#578      
At the start of the year, I said that four wins was a reasonable goal, given the schedule and the team. It looks like that is how things will turn out, unless Northwestern's team gets the flu before the game.

However, I was expecting that a team that could win four games would look respectable in at least a few of the losses. Maybe you could say about a game (one half against South Florida and one half against Penn State). Add one quarter against Nebraska to be generous.

So I feel more critical than I want to post. Losing 63 - 0 does that to any cat.

I agree with this. I thought 4-5 wins, maybe get a little lucky and sneak into a bowl. But more than anything, I wanted to see a team that went out and played competitive, competent football week in and week out. If we were sitting at 3 wins, say we lost a close tilt to MN instead of winning, but had gone down to the wire in every game - I’d feel a whole lot better about going forward. We’ve seen the opposite. We’ve mostly been a team, save Corbin, that is completely inept week in and week out especially defensively. It’s not the record it’s how we got there.
 
#580      
For all of you who want to give Lovie one more year some questions:
1) don’t you think our bad recruiting will only get worse now that other coaches can recruit against a lame duck.
2) what actions on the defensive side of the ball give you any confidence that this head coach knows how to manage a college defensive game plan.
3) sure our offense is much better this year but why weren’t some actions taken last year. One of the best running backs in the Big10 this year only got a few touches last season. The head coach couldn’t see an issue there?
4) what about all of the transfers and suspensions? This really bothers me. It’s hard enough getting good players but once we get them we’re not keeping them. I expect a lot of transfers after the end of the season.
I don’t think it will happen this year but it should. Lovie is not helping this program and the longer he stays the more he will hurt this program.
 
#581      
For all of you who want to give Lovie one more year some questions:
1) don’t you think our bad recruiting will only get worse now that other coaches can recruit against a lame duck.
2) what actions on the defensive side of the ball give you any confidence that this head coach knows how to manage a college defensive game plan.
3) sure our offense is much better this year but why weren’t some actions taken last year. One of the best running backs in the Big10 this year only got a few touches last season. The head coach couldn’t see an issue there?
4) what about all of the transfers and suspensions? This really bothers me. It’s hard enough getting good players but once we get them we’re not keeping them. I expect a lot of transfers after the end of the season.
I don’t think it will happen this year but it should. Lovie is not helping this program and the longer he stays the more he will hurt this program.

I'm not sure I want to give Lovie another year but rather I don't think we have a choice but I'll try and answer.

1. I'm not sure I would characterize our recruiting as bad. It hasn't been what I expected but Lovie has a strong per average class building currently.

2. Currently none. I think Lovie needs to hire a competent coordinator and help where he can in a CEO kind of way. I doubt very much that Nick Saban was going through every practice rep with Kirby Smart through the years, but he could trust him to implement what needed to be done. Lovie needs to find that.

3. So we fire McGee midseason, what would that have changed? We had an extremely young line and offense in general, but Lovie recognized they needed a change and brought in Smith. This should be a plus in Lovie's column honestly.

4. These bother me immensely as well. Previously it has been chalked up to not Lovie's guys, but some of Lovie's guys are leaving too. I don't know the story on why but Williams and Dorsey leaving was painful. if there is a mass exodus after this season, I may join you in chorus to move on.
 
#582      

Deleted member 746094

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I give coach smith next year if we are in a bowl game he stays if not he goes

Giving Lovie another year is just avoiding the inevitable. He is not the right guy! If our goal is to just win 5 or 6 games every year and sneak into a crap bowl then just shut the freaking program down. Parts of this fan base are just beaten down by past failure.
 
#583      
I'm not sure I want to give Lovie another year but rather I don't think we have a choice but I'll try and answer.

1. I'm not sure I would characterize our recruiting as bad. It hasn't been what I expected but Lovie has a strong per average class building currently.

2. Currently none. I think Lovie needs to hire a competent coordinator and help where he can in a CEO kind of way. I doubt very much that Nick Saban was going through every practice rep with Kirby Smart through the years, but he could trust him to implement what needed to be done. Lovie needs to find that.

3. So we fire McGee midseason, what would that have changed? We had an extremely young line and offense in general, but Lovie recognized they needed a change and brought in Smith. This should be a plus in Lovie's column honestly.

4. These bother me immensely as well. Previously it has been chalked up to not Lovie's guys, but some of Lovie's guys are leaving too. I don't know the story on why but Williams and Dorsey leaving was painful. if there is a mass exodus after this season, I may join you in chorus to move on.
Currently we have the lowest rated recruiting class in the Big10. Lovie had a chance to hire a DCLine coach this year. How is that working out? McGee was a disaster and should have been replaced a year earlier. We started this year without a QB. How’s that for managing the team.
Glad you agree with the transfer issue. I’m hearing that there are going to be a lot more after the season ends.
 
#584      
Currently we have the lowest rated recruiting class in the Big10. Lovie had a chance to hire a DCLine coach this year. How is that working out? McGee was a disaster and should have been replaced a year earlier. We started this year without a QB. How’s that for managing the team.
Glad you agree with the transfer issue. I’m hearing that there are going to be a lot more after the season ends.

We don't have the lowest ranked class if you go by 247 and we are that low because we only have 10 commits. Our per player ranking is about 7th.

The transfer issue is a big deal if they come from our 2 deep. If we start out again young next season then I cannot see the sense of continuing with Lovie.

On the other hand if we make a move and don't hire coaches whose systems fit with our personnel, we are starting from scratch again. You certainly don't want to handcuff your search by style of offense and defense they run, so that cannot be deciding factor. At that point you are looking at another 3 year build.

At this point I'd rather give Lovie the chance to hire a couple of strong assistants and see what happens in 2019.
 
#585      
We don't have the lowest ranked class if you go by 247 and we are that low because we only have 10 commits. Our per player ranking is about 7th.

The transfer issue is a big deal if they come from our 2 deep. If we start out again young next season then I cannot see the sense of continuing with Lovie.

On the other hand if we make a move and don't hire coaches whose systems fit with our personnel, we are starting from scratch again. You certainly don't want to handcuff your search by style of offense and defense they run, so that cannot be deciding factor. At that point you are looking at another 3 year build.

At this point I'd rather give Lovie the chance to hire a couple of strong assistants and see what happens in 2019.
I was very happy with the Lovie hire. I was a little worried about the fact that he had been away from the college game for long but thought that could be addressed by good assistant coaches. His first hires had to be spot on. They weren’t. I hope you are right and Lovie can bring in enough good coachs to right this sinking ship but I have grave doubts. It’s really a futile discussion because I don’t believe that Josh will make a move after this season. And if he doesn’t I hope the buyout is the issue and not a hit to his pride.
 
#586      
I was responding to a post that talked about how bad Wisconsin was, 'and then Barry Alvarez came to town'.... Which I highlighted and quoted.

My post was meant to show that even the GREAT Barry Alvarez didn't come in and win immediately. It took TIME for him to get his system going. I'm sorry you didn't get the POINT of that...
Forgive me for missing your point, but we are on an Illinois loyalty message board discussing whether Lovie should be given more time or not. I thought you were implying Lovie Smith should get more time because Barry Alvarez took 4 years to get a winning conference record. However, if "it took time for him to get his system going" is your point, I'm afraid I have to disagree. As ChiefGritty also pointed out, his teams were competitive against some of the top teams in the country by year 3. They never lost by 39 points, let alone 63-0(!), in any of his first three years.
 
#587      

Illinivek23

Gurnee
Seems Lovie has lost his fire for this job. JW has to figure out if that is indeed the case and if so, appeal to Lovie's desire to not further impair his legacy by stepping away, like Anderson at OSU.
 
#588      
We haven't been in the top half of the Big 10 in recruiting in a long time at some point we either have to recruit better or do a better job of developing the players we recruit much like Ferentz does at Iowa and Fitzgerald does at Northwestern. If Lovie is fired need to find the right young coach who wants to prove himself say someone like Campbell who Iowa State hired. First thing that has to happen is return some interest in the program. Like I said in an earlier post showing a 3/4 empy stadium every week the Illini are on TV hurts recruiting and every other aspect of the program
 
#589      
This is what I mean by incompetence. Obviously Lovie knows football. But he clearly has no idea about the college version. You don’t hire a 60 year old with a 30 mil contract to learn on the job while spending 3 years burning the program to the ground

This program was already burnt to the ground before Lovie got here. He can't make it any worse.
 
#590      
This program was already burnt to the ground before Lovie got here. He can't make it any worse.

Lol so true. I see references to apathy setting in and empty stands. Where do you think we've been since Mackovic left?

We had an embarassing buffoon of a coach who was fired for abusive behavior who got steam rolled by refs into "not idea situation" interim coach before Lovie.
 
#591      

ChiefGritty

Chicago, IL
This program was already burnt to the ground before Lovie got here. He can't make it any worse.

He has made it worse. Quite a bit worse really.

From 2006-2015 we were only hopeless the way we've been in all three Lovie seasons in one, Beckman's first.
 
#593      
I really hate this notion that our past determines our future.

Sure, we've had crappy coaches over the past 20 years. So what?

Vanderbilt went to 1 bowl game in 28 years before James Franklin took over. Iowa State had one winning season in 11 years before Matt Campbell turned it around last year. Mizzou went to 2 bowl games in 17 years before Gary Pinkel was hired. Washington State went bowl-less for the 8 years before Mike Leach got there. Purdue had one winning season in the 9 years prior to Brohm getting there. Mississippi State went to 1 bowl game in 10 years before Dan Mullen took over.
The list goes on and on.

Coaching matters. Even at traditionally weak programs like Illinois. The right coach can win games. Maybe not make us a national title contender, but we can win 6+ games pretty consistently with the right coach. And Lovie isn't it.

The question is, how much longer do we need to wait to realize that?
Your post is spot on. Add Iowa to your list too. Hawkeyes were Illinois horrible for 25 years before Hayden Fry showed up. This can happen. But we're so gun shy now we feel like it's just never going to end.
 
#594      

ChiefGritty

Chicago, IL
From 2006-2015 we were only hopeless the way we've been in all three Lovie seasons in one, Beckman's first.

Per F/+ rankings:
2006: 79th
2007: 18th
2008: 40th
2009: 84th
2010: 30th
2011: 52nd
2012: 107th
2013: 71st
2014: 78th
2015: 65th
2016: 103rd
2017: 119th
2018: 105th (doesn't yet include Saturday's game. Will likely fall.)

06, 09, 13, those teams weren't GOOD. They lost a ton of games. But they were not week-in week-out pathetic the way we've been under Lovie.
 
#595      
He has made it worse. Quite a bit worse really.

From 2006-2015 we were only hopeless the way we've been in all three Lovie seasons in one, Beckman's first.

Did he make it worse or inherit worse? I'm sure a little bit of both

With the caveat that there is no excuse for this train wreck in 2018, no coach in these years inherited the Franks and Beans/not ideal disaster either
 
#596      

illini80

Forgottonia
From a recruiting only standpoint, it seems like we have more talent coming in than at the end of the Beckman/Cubit era. It's just shocking we have so little to show for it on the field. Yes we are still young, but I would expect to see signs of things coming together. I don't. Quite the opposite.
 
#597      

ILL in IA

Iowa City
This program was already burnt to the ground before Lovie got here. He can't make it any worse.
Record aside, the program has gotten better since lovie came on. The football facility is getting done. That is a big deal. I agreewith JW when he said we are just now at the starting line. We were running a race and everyone else had a head start. Lovie or new coach the program is better now compared to when Lovie took it over.
 
#598      

ChiefGritty

Chicago, IL
no coach in these years inherited the Franks and Beans/not ideal disaster either

Zook had four huge recruiting classes that altered the talent level of the program. 06, 07, 08 and 09. Beckman inherited a bunch of great seniors from that last class - Buchanan, Spence & Hawthorne chief among them - and made a total mess of his first season.

But beyond that little overhang that ended up being meaningless, Lovie's inheritance was no worse than Beckman's or Zook's. None good, but none hopeless either. Nor will, barring disaster, our next coach inherit a Kansas-type situation.

This "write off 2-3 seasons" thing that has become fashionable as excuse-making for a new coach is nonsense. It takes time to win consistently. It does not take more than a year or so to compete and demonstrate clear improvement.
 
#599      

UofI08

Chicago
Record aside, the program has gotten better since lovie came on. The football facility is getting done. That is a big deal. I agreewith JW when he said we are just now at the starting line. We were running a race and everyone else had a head start. Lovie or new coach the program is better now compared to when Lovie took it over.
The facility has nothing to do with Lovie, and that’s the main tangible improvement in the program.
 
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