Football Coaching Staff / Coaching Carousel Thread

[Deleted member 654622]

Nothing false, just that "The [defensive] system is proven." Interpret that how you want, but I'm pretty sure everyone else takes that as he isn't going to adjust.

Ok is the system proven? The answer is yes. No one can argue that point. Everyone wants to talk about the Bears success, and rightfully so. But that system also worked in Tampa and St. Louis. Some players are great in any system, like Urlacher. But Lance Briggs...was great because of the system. So it works both ways.
Has the system worked here? HELL NO. But is that the systems fault or the rosters? If it is the rosters, then all we need is better players. With the maturity of our current players, addition of Milo, hopefully some more JUCOs, the roster will be improved.
I am not saying anyone should be upset at the outcomes. They totally suck. I am just stating fact. This system is proven. The roster is not good enough to run it. Lovie isn't going to switch the philosophy that made is career. The roster will improve with physical maturity and experience. There isn't much of a short cut sadly

 

[ILL_INI]

Ok is the system proven? The answer is yes. No one can argue that point. Everyone wants to talk about the Bears success, and rightfully so. But that system also worked in Tampa and St. Louis. Some players are great in any system, like Urlacher. But Lance Briggs...was great because of the system. So it works both ways.
Has the system worked here? HELL NO. But is that the systems fault or the rosters? If it is the rosters, then all we need is better players. With the maturity of our current players, addition of Milo, hopefully some more JUCOs, the roster will be improved.
I am not saying anyone should be upset at the outcomes. They totally suck. I am just stating fact. This system is proven. The roster is not good enough to run it. Lovie isn't going to switch the philosophy that made is career. The roster will improve with physical maturity and experience. There isn't much of a short cut sadly

So, what exactly did you mean by adjust? And is the system proven in the college game against modern college offenses? If so, where?

 

[Deleted member 654622]

Again, 12th ranked class in the conference. Which is better, in fairness, than the rank in the conference of the team on the field.

I think Lovie is a great coach and a great person and I would love for him to succeed here and despite everything I still think there's a chance he can. But his tenure so far has been a total failure from top to bottom, and I don't think it serves anybody to pretend otherwise.

This week's F/+ ratings are out by the way. We dropped to 112th, -41.3%. Now below Kansas.

I 100% do not argue with this whatsoever. I am just a believer that a man of his stature, experiences, success, got there by working his a** off. Learning from his mistakes, and making himself better. I want to give him the opportunity to work it off some more here.

 

[Deleted member 654622]

So, what exactly did you mean by adapt? And is the system proven in the college game against modern college offenses? If so, where?

This is pure speculation as I am not a paid football coach. I am just a dude who used to play and loves it. So I would prefer no one read this as if I am coming off as the almighty.
The major difference between college football and professional is the athletic gap between the best players and the worst. Not a very big gap in the NFL because everyone is extremely athletic. The cover 2 basic foundation is built off individual one on one matchups. When the roster is what it is currently, and your running this, your going to get run over. I am assuming that Lovie figured his defense would get scored on more than we all would like, but that additional experience in the system will have a great payoff when they are upper classmen. I assume Lovie is going to watch the tape and see how many times a player has completely screwed up his assignment by allowing the ball outside, or a WR to get deeper than the safety (not physical issues). He will have to adjust how they are practicing/training/developing these players to not have as many mental errors during a game. Of course maturity is also a part of that. I also would think that the coaches know during the majority of the current games played, the offense has not done the defense any favors. Giving up 55 points per game is not on this defense alone. When the offense improves, the defense will also improve.
So when I say adjust, I think Lovie is going to adjust how they are teaching the defense scheme, and possibly how they hide what they are running. I also think he could adjust his current roster by adding some more JUCO's with the physical ability to win one on one battles.
I can only look at the Minnesota game where our young players played against other young players, and we dominated them. That gives me hope

 

[UofI08]

On this Thanksgiving eve, I would like to give thanks that our AD is not persuaded nor as "knee jerking" as the majority of our fan base. Lovie Smith is the best coach we have had here in a long time. Did you not think there was going to be an adjustment period for him at the college game?
We did not have enough recruiters on this coaching staff at the beginning. Did Lovie adjust?
The offense was crap last year. Did Lovie adjust?
The defense is crap this year. Now everyone thinks Lovie isn't going to adjust.
Don't care how good of a player you are. If you are a POS and will influence the young talent in a negative way, there is the door. The seniors that stayed, Nick Allegretti, DudeK, are the types of players you want as role models for your young players. This roster needs to mature to the point of having an Allegretti in every position group. Did Lovie put himself in this roster position, yes. Are you not going to let him show us the finished product?
Getting dominated sucks and is disheartening. When these kids sacks drop, it will be a different result.

This is beyond just orange koolaid.
Was Lovie a splash hire with a proven professional coaching resume? Of course, and nearly everyone was onboard with the hiring. But his performance has proven to be arguably the worst coach in a long time. 3 seasons is more than enough time to just show signs of significant progress. Our recruiting has not gotten significantly better, still nearly the worst in the conference. Our offense has gone from embarrassingly awful to semi ok. Our defense has gone from bad to nearly the worst in all of FBS. The older player thing is a 2 way street. If you don’t respect the players who have put in the work and have proven they deserve to be starters by benching them for less developed unprepared recruits, you’re basically kicking them to the curb. Lovies product has gotten worse each year. It should be doing the opposite.

Why are you so defensive? What do you enjoy about getting blown out in nearly every meaningful game? I’m sorry. Through 3 seasons, you have to show signs of SOMETHING. The only signs this experiment is showing are negative. Regression on the field, poor development, poor recruiting, locker room culture issues, etc.

 

[Deleted member 654622]

This is beyond just orange koolaid.
Was Lovie a splash hire with a proven professional coaching resume? Of course, and nearly everyone was onboard with the hiring. But his performance has proven to be arguably the worst coach in a long time. 3 seasons is more than enough time to just show signs of significant progress. Our recruiting has not gotten significantly better, still nearly the worst in the conference. Our offense has gone from embarrassingly awful to semi ok. Our defense has gone from bad to nearly the worst in all of FBS. The older player thing is a 2 way street. If you don’t respect the players who have put in the work and have proven they deserve to be starters by benching them for less developed unprepared recruits, you’re basically kicking them to the curb. Lovies product has gotten worse each year. It should be doing the opposite.

Why are you so defensive? What do you enjoy about getting blown out in nearly every meaningful game? I’m sorry. Through 3 seasons, you have to show signs of SOMETHING. The only signs this experiment is showing are negative. Regression on the field, poor development, poor recruiting, locker room culture issues, etc.

Not defensive whatsoever. I am just not on board with everyone here that wants to start over every 3 years. I also am in no rush to hurry up and get back to winning a whopping 6-8 games every year and calling that successful. I want more. Lovie gives us that possibility. How do you know the players that left were doing everything right? Those same players and their preparation was not resulting in much success before Lovie. Our recruiting has not gotten significantly better and will not until this coaching staff starts putting players in the NFL. Which I think will happen. And until then, I would much rather have 3 star kids out of Texas, California and Florida. They are better players. So the recruiting "score" might not show just how much it is currently improving. And locker room culture issues? Seriously? This locker room is in a much better position culture wise then is was in the past. Of course issues are still going to pop up. When you only have one Nick Allegretti, that is going to happen. As this roster matures, and as the negative players get weeded out, we will have more Nick Allegrettis. And that makes for a great "culture".
Don't enjoy losing whatsoever. I just look at what would be best moving forward from this exact point. I'll take Lovie over some random PJ Fleck or Brohm type.

 

[UofI08]

We have 1 real “feel good” win this year. The other were scheduled gimmes that we made way closer than a team of our stature should, and a historically bad Rutgers team.

Your comments make sense for 1st year Lovie. But with 1 game remaining in year 3 they make no sense. Have you watched any games this year?

 

[Deleted member 654622]

We have 1 real “feel good” win this year. The other were scheduled gimmes that we made way closer than a team of our stature should, and a historically bad Rutgers team.

Your comments make sense for 1st year Lovie. But with 1 game remaining in year 3 they make no sense. Have you watched any games this year?

No I just get on here an waste my day writing post just to see how pissed I can make everyone.

 

[ChiefGritty]

Not defensive whatsoever. I am just not on board with everyone here that wants to start over every 3 years. I also am in no rush to hurry up and get back to winning a whopping 6-8 games every year and calling that successful. I want more. Lovie gives us that possibility.

The thing that really bothers me about this talking point is that Lovie will be 61 years old at the beginning of next season and has spoken publicly many times about not wanting to be a 70-something still coaching. He called this the "4th quarter" of his career.

The other bothersome thing is that Illinois has won 8 games in consecutive years only once since 1904. That would absolutely be successful.

This idea that Lovie is going to be our Nick Saban is just not moored to reality. It never was really, but it's just pure fantasy now.

If we can go to a couple of bowl games the next couple of years while keeping the pipeline full of well-scouted good kid HS recruits, and maybe get in a position where we can hand it off to Rod Smith a year or two thereafter as Lovie rides into the sunset, that's a huge win, THAT'S what we're shooting for.

 

[Vermilion Slim]

As much as a historic loss at home on senior day really rattles my confidence, I still have some hope for the Lovie regime when looking at it in the context of recent Illinois football history. If you buy into the idea that Lovie's first year wasn't really his own (which I mostly do), then looking at this year as year 2 seems to fit past rebuilds.

Looking at B10 win% as a somewhat consistent metric, Turner, Zook, and Beckman all had 0 B10 wins in year 1, 1-2 wins in year 2, and then 3-6 wins in year 3. So if we beat Northwestern on Saturday then we've in some ways overachieved (given recent history) and if we lose than we're about where we've tended to be in year 2 of coaching changes.

You could argue, of course, that this is year 3 and we should be doing better. But you could also argue that this is the most complete rebuild we've ever tried so the bloodletting should take longer.

 

[JucoIllini10]

Lovie's comments suggest the scheme will remain the same (disappointing though expected). With that in mind I'm jumping on the Gene Chizik train for DC. Defense was not his issue at Auburn. He might still be there if the bottom didn't fall out of the offense when Malzahn and Cam left. He turned around UNC's defense using a scheme similar to Lovie. He took some time off to spend with his family but has hinted at a return to football. His son graduates this year and could be a walk on DB at Illinois.

 

[Deleted member 654622]

The thing that really bothers me about this talking point is that Lovie will be 61 years old at the beginning of next season and has spoken publicly many times about not wanting to be a 70-something still coaching. He called this the "4th quarter" of his career.

The other bothersome thing is that Illinois has won 8 games in consecutive years only once since 1904. That would absolutely be successful.

This idea that Lovie is going to be our Nick Saban is just not moored to reality. It never was really, but it's just pure fantasy now.

If we can go to a couple of bowl games the next couple of years while keeping the pipeline full of well-scouted good kid HS recruits, and maybe get in a position where we can hand it off to Rod Smith a year or two thereafter as Lovie rides into the sunset, that's a huge win, THAT'S what we're shooting for.

I agree about Lovie's lack of longevity. I assume the current plan is that his predecessor is currently in the coaching staff. Once the "culture" has been established, they would make a smooth transition to that man ready to take over. I would suspect it is Rod Smith at this point but I am just guessing.

 

[Deleted member 654622]

Lovie's comments suggest the scheme will remain the same (disappointing though expected). With that in mind I'm jumping on the Gene Chizik train for DC. Defense was not his issue at Auburn. He might still be there if the bottom didn't fall out of the offense when Malzahn and Cam left. He turned around UNC's defense using a scheme similar to Lovie. He took some time off to spend with his family but has hinted at a return to football. His son graduates this year and could be a walk on DB at Illinois.

Actually he is a good follow on twitter as well.

 

[JucoIllini10]

Actually he is a good follow on twitter as well.

Would also add he could bring Tommy Thigpen back to Champaign as "his guy" for the open assistant position. Adds a strong recruiter on the defensive side.

 

[UofI08]

I don’t know. I just think you have to look at the evidence in front of us. Underachieving team, bottom tier recruiting, transfers, suspensions, 2 coaches resigning in season, 100+ ranked defense, completely outclassed on the field. There’s just no positive progress at all. All your points are basically what people brought up when lovie was hired. They aren’t applicable or realistic now. Bottom line is we have one of the top paid coaches in the country, in his 3rd season, getting blown out by any opponent with a pulse.

 

[OrangeSoda]

I don’t know. I just think you have to look at the evidence in front of us. Underachieving team, bottom tier recruiting, transfers, suspensions, 2 coaches resigning in season, 100+ ranked defense, completely outclassed on the field. There’s just no positive progress at all. All your points are basically what people brought up when lovie was hired. They aren’t applicable or realistic now. Bottom line is we have one of the top paid coaches in the country, in his 3rd season, getting blown out by any opponent with a pulse.

You keep saying 3rd season as if his recruits are juniors this year. Sorry but that's next year. That simple aspect is why he will get another year.

It's also a pretty easy path to 6 wins next season. Unless we get blown out by 60 on Saturday Lovie will be here. And when we win six next year and actually see progress you will probably still be here complaining.

 

[Deleted member 654622]

I don’t know. I just think you have to look at the evidence in front of us. Underachieving team, bottom tier recruiting, transfers, suspensions, 2 coaches resigning in season, 100+ ranked defense, completely outclassed on the field. There’s just no positive progress at all. All your points are basically what people brought up when lovie was hired. They aren’t applicable or realistic now. Bottom line is we have one of the top paid coaches in the country, in his 3rd season, getting blown out by any opponent with a pulse.

So now you have to go back to earlier post. You are assuming Lovie is the type of person that is a quitter, not very smart in terms of football and doesn't work hard. Considering where he has come from and what he has achieved, I don't agree with those statements.
I also think that getting 2 of the top 10 rated recruits ever to commit to Illinois (in the recruiting rankings era) when our program is down, shows progression.

 

[UofI08]

You keep saying 3rd season as if his recruits are juniors this year. Sorry but that's next year. That simple aspect is why he will get another year.

It's also a pretty easy path to 6 wins next season. Unless we get blown out by 60 on Saturday Lovie will be here. And when we win six next year and actually see progress you will probably still be here complaining.

It really depends what the season looks like next year. There’s 3 scheduled wins to start. Then the conference slate. If they sneak out 3 conference wins but get blown out repeatedly in their losses, yes I will be calling for his firing next year. If they blow out their first 3 opponents. Win a couple conference games and are competitive the rest of the way with a couple bad breaks, I’d probably be for keeping Lovie even if that’s only 5 wins. Lots of variables.

 

[UofI08]

So now you have to go back to earlier post. You are assuming Lovie is the type of person that is a quitter, not very smart in terms of football and doesn't work hard. Considering where he has come from and what he has achieved, I don't agree with those statements.
I also think that getting 2 of the top 10 rated recruits ever to commit to Illinois (in the recruiting rankings era) when our program is down, shows progression.

I’m not assuming anything. I’m pointing out pretty indisputable observations. I have nothing against Lovie personally or professionally. My family is not from Chicago so I’m pretty neutral on the Bears. I think Lovie was a solid coach throughout his career, and really should never have been fired the way he was at both Chicago and Tampa. I’ve never heard a former player or coach say anything bad about him. I’ve always liked his even keel demeanor. His defensive resume speaks for itself. I thought the hire was a home run.
But now it’s 3 seasons in and there is nothing positive about his tenure here. Beason is a stud, near surefire NFL guy, but he’s one guy. Williams is a freak athlete, but his rating is primarily on his athleticism, not his QB talent. Both guys are amazing talents no doubt, but football requires quality depth and athleticism at all positions and frankly our recruiting has not substantially addressed that.

 

[Deleted member 569417]

It really depends what the season looks like next year. There’s 3 scheduled wins to start. Then the conference slate. If they sneak out 3 conference wins but get blown out repeatedly in their losses, yes I will be calling for his firing next year. If they blow out their first 3 opponents. Win a couple conference games and are competitive the rest of the way with a couple bad breaks, I’d probably be for keeping Lovie even if that’s only 5 wins. Lots of variables.

Should they win those 3 non con? Well, sure. But just assuming you're getting 3 wins in non con next year is a bit much for a program this bad. The only game of those 3 that looks to be an auto win is UConn, and even that is on the road.

And, honestly, saying you'd keep Lovie if he doesn't make a bowl next year is insanity. A bowl in year 3 shouldn't have been too high expectations, let alone in year 4. If that's the case, then Whitman will have proven he's basically a younger Ron Guenther and might as well shut the program down or join an FCS conference.

 

[ILL_INI]

This is pure speculation as I am not a paid football coach. I am just a dude who used to play and loves it. So I would prefer no one read this as if I am coming off as the almighty.
The major difference between college football and professional is the athletic gap between the best players and the worst. Not a very big gap in the NFL because everyone is extremely athletic. The cover 2 basic foundation is built off individual one on one matchups. When the roster is what it is currently, and your running this, your going to get run over. I am assuming that Lovie figured his defense would get scored on more than we all would like, but that additional experience in the system will have a great payoff when they are upper classmen. I assume Lovie is going to watch the tape and see how many times a player has completely screwed up his assignment by allowing the ball outside, or a WR to get deeper than the safety (not physical issues). He will have to adjust how they are practicing/training/developing these players to not have as many mental errors during a game. Of course maturity is also a part of that. I also would think that the coaches know during the majority of the current games played, the offense has not done the defense any favors. Giving up 55 points per game is not on this defense alone. When the offense improves, the defense will also improve.
So when I say adjust, I think Lovie is going to adjust how they are teaching the defense scheme, and possibly how they hide what they are running. I also think he could adjust his current roster by adding some more JUCO's with the physical ability to win one on one battles.
I can only look at the Minnesota game where our young players played against other young players, and we dominated them. That gives me hope

So year #4 adjustments: Lovie will adjust how he teaches the scheme and possibly how they hide what they are doing. This hasn't been accomplished successfully in years 1-3, but I guess we can place our trust in the new defensive coaches to actually, um, coach.

You said the defense will improve when the offense improves and as the players mature. But the offense has improved over last year, yet the defense is worse. That seems to counter your argument.

It's hard to swallow the argument that it's the players when a 4-5 FCS team can play Alabama closer than the Illini can play Iowa.

 

[MadSeason]

A question for the Lovie crowd, if the buyout was 1 million instead of 12, would that change your thoughts?

It wouldn't change my mind, but I'm not in Whitman's spot. I was a Lovie guy, but it's on very shaky ground now. You have good cause for concern I just think pulling the trigger now does not help anything in the near term, because if we are going to see fruits from the labor it should start next year.

At this point I can't say with certainty that this won't we a 6+ win team next year. Too many unknowns, like new DC, transfers in and out, coaching turnover etc.

I do believe if next year shows little to no improvement and were are still getting blown out, I will be joining you in chorus to move on. Even if we won 6 games and sneak into a bowl. I need to see a sizable shift forward, but he should get next year to sink or swim.

 

[UofI08]

Should they win those 3 non con? Well, sure. But just assuming you're getting 3 wins in non con next year is a bit much for a program this bad. The only game of those 3 that looks to be an auto win is UConn, and even that is on the road.

And, honestly, saying you'd keep Lovie if he doesn't make a bowl next year is insanity. A bowl in year 3 shouldn't have been too high expectations, let alone in year 4. If that's the case, then Whitman will have proven he's basically a younger Ron Guenther and might as well shut the program down or join an FCS conference.

I probably worded my post poorly. I didn’t mean I’d want him back if he doesn’t make a bowl next year. I meant there’s a scenario where that is possible. Like if Lovie crushes the non conference, and then the B1G is strong next year and we win 2 games and are in every other game but get a couple unlucky 1 possession losses. That would show me that we “belong” in the big ten and can legitimately compete.

The non conference next year is required wins in my mind. If lovie is brought back he has to start 3-0 and look good doing it. Results and progress are required in what would be season 4. If he losses one of the first 3, he’d have to win like 8 games to save his job, in my opinion. That’s why I’m chalking them up as wins. If any of them are losses, Lovie may not finish the season.

 

[Deleted member 569417]

I probably worded my post poorly. I didn’t mean I’d want him back if he doesn’t make a bowl next year. I meant there’s a scenario where that is possible. Like if Lovie crushes the non conference, and then the B1G is strong next year and we win 2 games and are in every other game but get a couple unlucky 1 possession losses. That would show me that we “belong” in the big ten and can legitimately compete.

More reasonable and I think probably a position some would take (including unfortunately our AD), but I'm frankly over with moral victories. I think regardless of how you get there, you gotta get to 6 wins or we gotta move on from Lovie.

The non conference next year is required wins in my mind. If lovie is brought back he has to start 3-0 and look good doing it. Results and progress are required in what would be season 4. If he losses one of the first 3, he’d have to win like 8 games to save his job, in my opinion. That’s why I’m chalking them up as wins. If any of them are losses, Lovie may not finish the season.

I think it's more required to get 3 wins in Non Con because I can't find 3 victories in conference let alone the 4 it would take to be bowl eligible. Other than Rutgers, I don't see any assured wins. Maybe Minny again? Maybe?

 

[UofI08]

More reasonable and I think probably a position some would take (including unfortunately our AD), but I'm frankly over with moral victories. I think regardless of how you get there, you gotta get to 6 wins or we gotta move on from Lovie.


I think it's more required to get 3 wins in Non Con because I can't find 3 victories in conference let alone the 4 it would take to be bowl eligible. Other than Rutgers, I don't see any assured wins. Maybe Minny again? Maybe?

Yeah I was just trying to think of a scenario where I could see him staying even if we don’t make a bowl. In all honesty, if Lovie is back next year, my for sure keep number is 8 wins. 6 or 7 will depend on how the rest of the games look and any injuries/weird circumstances. You don’t completely tear down a program for 3 seasons to hopefully sneak into a bowl game in year 4. If you’re tearing it down this substantially, you better have a huge turn around or a legitimate reason for underachieving.