High School Sports

#26      
Se Il Illini
Curbelo Fanboy said:
The time format for these 2 state weekends is beyond the dumbest thing ever. Playing the 3rd place games in prime time on Thursday & Friday is silly. You can debate whether the 3rd place games are still worthwhile. I'm fine with em. But don't play em in prime time when potential casual fans want to watch the semi finals.

I say play 1A & 2A semis on Thursday. 1A & 2A 3rd place starting at 9:00am on Friday. Then 3A & 4A semis in afternoon & night. 3A & 4A 3rd place 9:00am Saturday & the title games starting after that.

It's like someone in Bloomington at IHSA headquarters is devising a format intentionally trying to diminish in person attendance & TV viewership. Crazy town IMO.
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There was more opportunity for TV viewership in the 1960's than there is today. Outlets all over the state carried the tournament. Later on WGN carried the tournasment so that cable households had the opportunity to see it. This year is not the case, but in the not too far recent past, the advent of the college conference basketball tournaments have siphoned off viewership. And finally, and I know the cow is out of the barn on this, but Chuck Rolinski's 2 class format was a perfect storm as far as the state tournament goes. And you are right, ther IHSA has not worked out how to run a 4 class state tournament on the same weekend. And there may not be a great solution.
I remember the state championship game in the early 60's ( maybe 1963) which pitted Centralia vs Chicago Carver. We were watching on WSIL channel 3 in Harrisburg. Centralia was leading in the final seconds and WSIL lost the feed. We missed the game winning shot by Anthony Smedley which made Centralia the runner-up.
 
#27      
Curbelo Fanboy
Se Il Illini said:
There was more opportunity for TV viewership in the 1960's than there is today. Outlets all over the state carried the tournament. Later on WGN carried the tournasment so that cable households had the opportunity to see it. This year is not the case, but in the not too far recent past, the advent of the college conference basketball tournaments have siphoned off viewership. And finally, and I know the cow is out of the barn on this, but Chuck Rolinski's 2 class format was a perfect storm as far as the state tournament goes. And you are right, ther IHSA has not worked out how to run a 4 class state tournament on the same weekend. And there may not be a great solution.
I remember the state championship game in the early 60's ( maybe 1963) which pitted Centralia vs Chicago Carver. We were watching on WSIL channel 3 in Harrisburg. Centralia was leading in the final seconds and WSIL lost the feed. We missed the game winning shot by Anthony Smedley which made Centralia the runner-up.
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Oh I know there are societal changes diminish the impact & it wouldn't be "what it used to be" even if 2 class still existed. But I'd venture a guess that the attendance would be a lot better than it is currently had they left the format as is.

Honestly the 4 classes on 1 weekend has too many games to make it work. Indiana uses a format where they play the quarters & semis the prior Saturday at locations around the state. Then the winners travel to Indy for 4 title games on a Saturday. Champaign wouldn't like it but it is probably a better format to try to do everything in 1 weekend for the finals.
 
#28      
Se Il Illini
Curbelo Fanboy said:
Oh I know there are societal changes diminish the impact & it wouldn't be "what it used to be" even if 2 class still existed. But I'd venture a guess that the attendance would be a lot better than it is currently had they left the format as is.

Honestly the 4 classes on 1 weekend has too many games to make it work. Indiana uses a format where they play the quarters & semis the prior Saturday at locations around the state. Then the winners travel to Indy for 4 title games on a Saturday. Champaign wouldn't like it but it is probably a better format to try to do everything in 1 weekend for the finals.
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Indiana has always used that format. Sectionals, regionals, semi-state, and state. Under the 1 class system there were 4 semi-states with 4 teams played on a Saturday at 4 different location. The semi -finals were played in the morning and there were 4 champions in the evening, who would advance to the stae finals on the Saturday. Indiana has never played a third place game. With the 4 classes in Indiana, each class has 2 semi-states with the winner of each semi-state advancing to the championship game the next Saturaday. I think Indiana still uses a blind draw for the sectional pairings.
 
#29      
IlliniFaninHoosierLand
Curbelo Fanboy said:
The time format for these 2 state weekends is beyond the dumbest thing ever. Playing the 3rd place games in prime time on Thursday & Friday is silly. You can debate whether the 3rd place games are still worthwhile. I'm fine with em. But don't play em in prime time when potential casual fans want to watch the semi finals.

I say play 1A & 2A semis on Thursday. 1A & 2A 3rd place starting at 9:00am on Friday. Then 3A & 4A semis in afternoon & night. 3A & 4A 3rd place 9:00am Saturday & the title games starting after that.

It's like someone in Bloomington at IHSA headquarters is devising a format intentionally trying to diminish in person attendance & TV viewership. Crazy town IMO.
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Also of note those 3rd place games are streaming only. Which isn't the worst to be honest because I doubt many if any outside of the supporters of the teams involved were watching anyway when they were on TV.
 
#30      
IlliniFaninHoosierLand
Se Il Illini said:
Indiana has always used that format. Sectionals, regionals, semi-state, and state. Under the 1 class system there were 4 semi-states with 4 teams played on a Saturday at 4 different location. The semi -finals were played in the morning and there were 4 champions in the evening, who would advance to the stae finals on the Saturday. Indiana has never played a third place game. With the 4 classes in Indiana, each class has 2 semi-states with the winner of each semi-state advancing to the championship game the next Saturaday. I think Indiana still uses a blind draw for the sectional pairings.
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I believe this is correct. The only drawback is you can get some sectionals that are absolutely loaded with multiple 20+ win teams and others that have a mediocre at best .500 team being the best team in the sectioanl.
 
#31      
IlliniFaninHoosierLand
Boys basketball supersectional match-ups set for Monday:

1A
Jacksonville Bowl: Routt (32-4) vs. Goreville (30-4)
EIU: LeRoy (32-2) vs. Lawrenceville (33-2)
WIU: Tremont (25-10) vs. Lanark Eastland (28-5)
Joliet Central: Shabbona Indian Creek (27-6) vs. Chicago Marshall (21-9)

2A
Sterling HS: Peoria Manual (19-9) vs. Johnsburg (24-11)
Pontiac: Tolono Unity (32-2) vs. Kankakee Bishop McNamara (29-5)
Joliet Central: Chicago Crane Medical (22-10) vs. Chicago Farragut (10-14)
SIU: Benton (28-6) vs. QND (29-1)

3A
NOW Arena: Wheaton St. Francis (17-14) vs. Deerfield (23-11)
NIU: Morton (29-4) vs. Maple Park Kaneland (34-0)
UIC: Chicago Hyde Park (25-9) vs. Chicago Leo (27-6)
BOS Center: MacArthur (34-1) vs. East St. Louis (30-4)

4A
UIC: Elmhurst York (31-4) vs. Chicago St. Ignatius (31-4)
ISU: Chicago Marist (30-5) vs. Peoria Richwoods (26-7)
NOW Arena: Arlington Heights Hersey (22-7) vs. Chicago DePaul College Prep (31-3)
NIU: Lisle Benet Academy (34-1) vs. Rockford Auburn (27-8)
 
#32      
Red77sng
IlliniFaninHoosierLand said:
Boys basketball supersectional match-ups set for Monday:

1A
Jacksonville Bowl: Routt (32-4) vs. Goreville (30-4)
EIU: LeRoy (32-2) vs. Lawrenceville (33-2)
WIU: Tremont (25-10) vs. Lanark Eastland (28-5)
Joliet Central: Shabbona Indian Creek (27-6) vs. Chicago Marshall (21-9)

2A
Sterling HS: Peoria Manual (19-9) vs. Johnsburg (24-11)
Pontiac: Tolono Unity (32-2) vs. Kankakee Bishop McNamara (29-5)
Joliet Central: Chicago Crane Medical (22-10) vs. Chicago Farragut (10-14)
SIU: Benton (28-6) vs. QND (29-1)

3A
NOW Arena: Wheaton St. Francis (17-14) vs. Deerfield (23-11)
NIU: Morton (29-4) vs. Maple Park Kaneland (34-0)
UIC: Chicago Hyde Park (25-9) vs. Chicago Leo (27-6)
BOS Center: MacArthur (34-1) vs. East St. Louis (30-4)

4A
UIC: Elmhurst York (31-4) vs. Chicago St. Ignatius (31-4)
ISU: Chicago Marist (30-5) vs. Peoria Richwoods (26-7)
NOW Arena: Arlington Heights Hersey (22-7) vs. Chicago DePaul College Prep (31-3)
NIU: Lisle Benet Academy (34-1) vs. Rockford Auburn (27-8)
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Thanks
 
#34      
Luwdoo
Morton vs Kaneland should be a good one. Morton handled Kankakee last night pretty methodically. They are deep. 6'6'' and 6'7" come off the bench and they are good. Marshawn Cocroft from Kaneland 6' guard is as quick as you will ever see. And Jeffrey Hassan 6'9" is a rim protector.
 
#35      
logjam
It's been a good year because I got to say this in football too...GO UNITY HIGH SCHOOL...! Win in Pontiac so we can see you in Champaign...
 
#36      
pruman91
I always took off work for the state tourney starting on Fridays with the quarterfinals and Saturdays semi's and championship , free on channel 3 WSIL-TV Harrisburg, Il......It was a ritual to watch state tourney games all day those 2 days.....

then they split to 1A and 2A on consecutive weekends ....yea . more free games...............now it's pay tv......I miss the good old days............

I found some free you tube streams for the sectional finals and some were audio only....gonna see if any free streams for Monday games but doubtful..........
 
#37      
chiefini
I only attended one game back in 1966 when my York Dukes lost big to the eventual State Champion Pekin Chinks. It was a ritual though, when I was a teacher, that almost every single male teacher and coach and lots of male students would take off school to attend. Turns out my husband and his dad and a crew from his high school (Rockford East) would go every year, too. That fell off when the tournament left the Assembly Hall…
 
#38      
IlliniFaninHoosierLand
pru, I would check the central Illinois sports youtube page. They may have the Routt/Goreville game at the Jacksonville Bowl.

Also, I'm not sure why you're saying games are on pay tv. They still are over the air. It's just a bit trickier now with trying to get the signal to come in on a digital TV.
 
#39      
Curbelo Fanboy
IlliniFaninHoosierLand said:
For anyone in central Illinois, that MacArthur/East St. Louis game at the BOS Center could be a fun one to watch just from a pure athleticism standpoint.

Gonna be curious to see what the crowd looks like at the Bowl as Routt will have a virtual home game in that one.
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I'm going to the Mac/ESL game. Dusting my track shoes off now. I'm expecting a potential classic game in that one. Scoredboard operator might want to make sure the 3rd digit works. It's possible it's needed tonight.
 
#40      
Curbelo Fanboy
Se Il Illini said:
Indiana has always used that format. Sectionals, regionals, semi-state, and state. Under the 1 class system there were 4 semi-states with 4 teams played on a Saturday at 4 different location. The semi -finals were played in the morning and there were 4 champions in the evening, who would advance to the stae finals on the Saturday. Indiana has never played a third place game. With the 4 classes in Indiana, each class has 2 semi-states with the winner of each semi-state advancing to the championship game the next Saturaday. I think Indiana still uses a blind draw for the sectional pairings.
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They also use a draw for semi state pairings. I am going to be coming back from an east coast trip on the 21st & have a chance to stop somewhere in Indiana to catch some of the semi state games. They know the game locations but they don't decide who goes to each one until this weekend after the regional games are done. Basically there are 2 semi states for each class (one north & one south). They assign 4 teams to a location & play what are in effect quarterfinals in the morning with the 2 winners playing the semi finals that night. Winners go to Indy the following Saturday for the final game.

I've always wanted to visit one of those big Indiana gyms & might get a chance on that day.
 
#41      
Roundball Sage
Se Il Illini said:
There was more opportunity for TV viewership in the 1960's than there is today. Outlets all over the state carried the tournament... college conference basketball tournaments have siphoned off viewership... IHSA has not worked out how to run a 4 class state tournament on the same weekend.
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Flawed as it might be... the IHSA basketball tournaments remain heaven for this roundball fan. Better than the NBA... and better than the NCAA tournament (once the Illini are eliminated).

And that’s the thing. Most years, the Illini ARE eliminated and that sours the end of the season. But the IHSA tournament is a sure thing each and every year to deliver great memories for the young players and community fans and all us roundball fanatics. Even if you don’t particularly favor any of the remaining teams... the energy and atmosphere pulls you in. And often there are some elite players to watch and remember as they go on to the next level.

Things cooled off a bit when the tournament went to Peoria. It was still great but the energy wasn’t the same. Many of us grew up with the tournament on the Illini home floor every year and that fed right into State pride for the major State university.

NBA is megabucks. NCAA is NIL. IHSA is pure ball heaven. In a Basketball State.
 
#42      
Se Il Illini
Roundball Sage said:
Flawed as it might be... the IHSA basketball tournaments remain heaven for this roundball fan. Better than the NBA... and better than the NCAA tournament (once the Illini are eliminated).

And that’s the thing. Most years, the Illini ARE eliminated and that sours the end of the season. But the IHSA tournament is a sure thing each and every year to deliver great memories for the young players and community fans and all us roundball fanatics. Even if you don’t particularly favor any of the remaining teams... the energy and atmosphere pulls you in. And often there are some elite players to watch and remember as they go on to the next level.

Things cooled off a bit when the tournament went to Peoria. It was still great but the energy wasn’t the same. Many of us grew up with the tournament on the Illini home floor every year and that fed right into State pride for the major State university.

NBA is megabucks. NCAA is NIL. IHSA is pure ball heaven. In a Basketball State.
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I do not disagree. This is a personal opinion, but I did not like the Peoria venue. And I know many really liked the Peoria experience. I just think the tournament is too watered down with 4 classes.
 
#43      
fuddrules
Se Il Illini said:
I just think the tournament is too watered down with 4 classes.
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Could you or anyone explain this better.

Under the oldish system, 16 teams made the state tournament.

The current format, 16 teams make the tournament.

Im sure only a few here attended many pre-1972 tournaments.
 
#44      
IlliniFaninHoosierLand
Se Il Illini said:
I do not disagree. This is a personal opinion, but I did not like the Peoria venue. And I know many really liked the Peoria experience. I just think the tournament is too watered down with 4 classes.
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The best thing to come from them leaving Peoria was getting rid of the March Madness Experience. It was great at first but after a few years, many parents just used it as an excuse to drop their kids off while the parents went to the games. Lost track of how many times I saw kids running around in there acting like idiots without any parental supervision.
 
#46      
Roundball Sage
fuddrules said:
Could you or anyone explain this better. Under the oldish system, 16 teams made the state tournament. The current format, 16 teams make the tournament.
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I think it’s a matter of perception.

When IHSA had one class... the 16 teams made ONE Champ. The whole enchilada. No questions asked. Clarity. No ambiguity. Settled.

When IHSA had two classes... you got two teams that took home big trophies. OK, that made sense that the small schools did not have to compete with the big population schools and cities that some felt might be unfair.

Now with four Champs... it’s about where one is viewing thing this from. If you’re one of the young persons who wins one of these four titles you are thrilled and feel like a Champ like you should. And so do those schools and communities.

But from the outside... who’s the ‘real’ Champ? Maybe a 2A could beat a 4A in some years – but we’ll never know. To those who win titles, the value is still there. But to the outside or more casual viewer... having four Champs gives the impression of watering things down. When you had 16 teams vying for one title.. it never felt that way.

How about a Super Tournament after the four titles are awarded? OK, all you guys are champs. But let’s settle it with all four classes going at it together. Would the players like this or not? As a roundball fan I’d love to see it. And who wouldn’t get a kick out of seeing a 1A beat a 3A or 2A beat a 4A some year.

I’d also like to see the Illinois champs play the Indiana champs every year as well. Illini home floor or Hoosier home floor alternate years.

As said, each of us has a point of view on this and they’re all good. No good roundballer out there would ever turn down playing more ball.
 
#47      
Se Il Illini
IlliniFaninHoosierLand said:
The best thing to come from them leaving Peoria was getting rid of the March Madness Experience. It was great at first but after a few years, many parents just used it as an excuse to drop their kids off while the parents went to the games. Lost track of how many times I saw kids running around in there acting like idiots without any parental supervision.
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We have a winner.
 
#48      
Curbelo Fanboy
Roundball Sage said:
I think it’s a matter of perception.

When IHSA had one class... the 16 teams made ONE Champ. The whole enchilada. No questions asked. Clarity. No ambiguity. Settled.

When IHSA had two classes... you got two teams that took home big trophies. OK, that made sense that the small schools did not have to compete with the big population schools and cities that some felt might be unfair.

Now with four Champs... it’s about where one is viewing thing this from. If you’re one of the young persons who wins one of these four titles you are thrilled and feel like a Champ like you should. And so do those schools and communities.

But from the outside... who’s the ‘real’ Champ? Maybe a 2A could beat a 4A in some years – but we’ll never know. To those who win titles, the value is still there. But to the outside or more casual viewer... having four Champs gives the impression of watering things down. When you had 16 teams vying for one title.. it never felt that way.

How about a Super Tournament after the four titles are awarded? OK, all you guys are champs. But let’s settle it with all four classes going at it together. Would the players like this or not? As a roundball fan I’d love to see it. And who wouldn’t get a kick out of seeing a 1A beat a 3A or 2A beat a 4A some year.

I’d also like to see the Illinois champs play the Indiana champs every year as well. Illini home floor or Hoosier home floor alternate years.

As said, each of us has a point of view on this and they’re all good. No good roundballer out there would ever turn down playing more ball.
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I attended a school that is solidly 1A these days back in the 1980's. They would have been 1A then also. I did not play but was the manager/stat guy for a team that won a regional vs Quincy Notre Dame in 1987. Admittedly, I'm a junkie but the memories of that bit of David vs Goliath moment resonate to this day for the people on that team.

TBH we probably had a 1A state caliber team a few years in the late 1980's. But as an ardent high school hoops fan, I can say it's just not as good with 4 classes. It's still fun. I still go to games. Just went to watch ESL & Decatur MacArthur last night. Enjoyable game. But the whole 4 class has never been as good as what it was in the 2 class days. 1 class ended the year I was born so I have no memory of it.

To me 2 class was perfect for a state like Illinois. The old class A was up to 750 enrollment so you still had some David vs Goliath cinderella teams. Like Findlay with 90 students winning class A in the early 90's. And then class AA was all the big boys. A school of 800 could go against a school of 2,000 and have reasonable shot.

It was absurdly hard to make a deep run let alone actually win state. But the difficulty & the thrill of the chase is what made it so special.

And the IHSA back then put on a broadcast to be proud of. They used Frank Bussone (longtime Bradley announcer) & Art Kimball who covered high school sports out of Bloomington for years as the main announcers with various knowledgeable well spoken coaches as color commentators. You could tell Frank & Art treated that tournament with respect like it was the biggest game in town. They created a real buzz for the event. Did their research, knew the teams, etc. Now it seems the IHSA just grabs a couple Chicago types & throws em on air. Minimal knowledge of the teams (especially the downstate teams). The whole broadcast, format of the schedule, etc comes off feeling like a C tier event.
 
#49      
Roundball Sage
Curbelo Fanboy said:
And the IHSA back then put on a broadcast to be proud of. They used Frank Bussone (longtime Bradley announcer) & Art Kimball who covered high school sports out of Bloomington for years as the main announcers with various knowledgeable well spoken coaches as color commentators. You could tell Frank & Art treated that tournament with respect like it was the biggest game in town. They created a real buzz for the event. Did their research, knew the teams, etc. Now it seems the IHSA just grabs a couple Chicago types & throws em on air.
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There was a guy named Tom Kelly. He'd come in from California for several years to do the tourney. He was pretty good. Also, a fairly famous announcer named Jack Drees (who lived in Western Springs? -- at least I once saw him get on a train there once) who used to do the White Sox and other events. And there was a megastar announcer named Ray Scott who was a big wheel doing NFL TV games for a long time. Even he did the IHSA tournament. And the WGN presentation was indeed something special. Four games on Friday, four on Saturday... and we roundballers were still begging for more.

I still can hear in my head commercials for Illinois Bell Telephone and The Illinois Pork Producers Association...
 
#50      
Red77sng
Roundball Sage said:
There was a guy named Tom Kelly. He'd come in from California for several years to do the tourney. He was pretty good. Also, a fairly famous announcer named Jack Drees (who lived in Western Springs? -- at least I once saw him get on a train there once) who used to do the White Sox and other events. And there was a megastar announcer named Ray Scott who was a big wheel doing NFL TV games for a long time. Even he did the IHSA tournament. And the WGN presentation was indeed something special. Four games on Friday, four on Saturday... and we roundballers were still begging for more.

I still can hear in my head commercials for Illinois Bell Telephone and The Illinois Pork Producers Association...
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The good old days
 
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