Illini Basketball 2016-2017

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#1,226      
LibertyIllini
LibertyIllini said:
As of today, Pritzl struggles mightily on defense. Taking this straight from a horse's mouth in the great state of Wisconsin. Yes, Wisconsin will be very good. Yes, people are overlooking them. But, apparently Pritzl has much to learn on the defensive end.
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I doubt anyone was worried, but Pritzl can indeed shoot the ball.
 
#1,227      
WesterveltVictoryCigar
geneseo said:
I believe I was the one who started the discussion, the issue being whether or not the system is a contributing factor to rebounding performance.
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Well, no. Not really. Here's the initial comment when the question was raised if our defense would be improved:

WesterveltVictoryCigar said:
Having Thorne and Black back along with a more experienced Finke and an improved Mav means our defensive rebounding should be immensely improved. And that will also greatly improve our defense.
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You then chimed in with this:

geneseo said:
Yes it should be improved.

But last year's team was the worst rebounding Illinois team I can remember and I have been following the Illini for over 50 years. Imo, there was no excuse for it even with the injuries. I fear that Groce's scheme contributed to the disaster. I worry that he doesn't have the same conviction in the importance of rebounding that a Henson or Izzo or Ryan has/had.
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Now I don't know of any coach who has a scheme to not rebound the ball on defense. On the other end, sure. Groce even admitted he tried that option, to not go after offensive boards in an effort to improve the transition defense. I don't think it's his normal tactics, but he was trying something different.

Regardless of that, it was about a different topic. Offensive rebounding is very different than defensive rebounding. By the way, the coach you referenced, Bo Ryan, frequently had his team de-emphasize offensive rebounding. It's the reason they rarely gave up many transition baskets.

I think a longer term view is helpful. That's my opinion. If you want to explain why you think you have the authority to limit the original question and further, why looking at a shorter period of time versus a longer period of time is better when discussing a system, I'd be interested to hear your reasoning.
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Not sure I follow any of this. The "original" question was whether the defense would be improved. I think we're including all 4 years that Groce has coached here, so not sure on this shorter/longer period of time you're referencing?

I am wondering if Groce is making a tactical decision to emphasize field goal defense at the expense of rebounding. For example, it seems to me that Egwu spent more time defending perimeter shooters than most centers.
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IMO, he's adjusting to his personnel. Egwu was not a good rebounder but was pretty mobile and a decent shot blocker. I suppose Groce could have kept him more in the paint, but I don't know that it would have helped the defense overall as Nnanna just didn't seem to have good rebounding instincts. And bad hands....

I think field goal defense is also critical to the success of the team. After all John Wooden named it as one of the three most important stats along with turnovers and rebounds.

If Groce is making that decision, I can respect that. It's his decision as head coach. I was wanting to discuss that... is he making that decision and is it a good one.
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Thanks for clarifying. I think he had to try a lot of things last season given the challenges of many new players and so many injuries. Obviously they didn't work out too well as the defense was not good.

I'm not sure what you mean with "Well, we also don't have any evidence that he's been unsuccessful either." Seems to me all the evidence points to a problem. Last I heard Black was dealing with the law. I have no idea what your talking about.
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It's pretty simple, Black hasn't played his second full season yet, so we can't judge the success/failure of his time here yet. You're looking for evidence that he's changed, but we can't possibly know that yet.

Well, now you're in high gear on your rant. You made a stink over a pet peeve, a minor annoyance by definition. You can own that.

Calling me names? Geesh!
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Sensitive much? Hey, I hope I'm wrong about your wimpish nature...
 
#1,229      
Adnarel
It's early September, recruiting news is thin, and the start of the regular season is tantalizingly far away...

Gotta remember to stay civil and quietly deal with the profound depression and malaise that we all feel when we've gone too long without basketball games to argue about on this board. :thumb:
 
#1,231      
brosox
Is there any update on our walking wounded? I am particularly interested in knowing if Tracy and Lucas will be 100% by the start of workouts in October.
 
#1,234      
jrichisamazing
Calvin said:
Yup. And personally, I can remember a lot of times I felt we under-performed, and not very many where we over-performed. There were some real stinkers in there where I thought Groce would struggle to get players prepared, only to see that forecast come true. I love teams that play with fire to the final horn, and I don't feel like I've seen much of that in the past 3 years. Watching Kruger or Izzo or some of the other teams that play with urgency makes me long for a team like that.
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Games where we overperformed:

2015-2016: @Providence, Purdue, Iowa (BTT)
2014-2015: Baylor (LV Tourney), Maryland, Purdue, @Michigan St
2013-2014: @Michigan St, @Iowa, Michigan(BTT)
2012-2013: Maui, @Gonzaga, Ohio St, @Michigan St, Indiana, @Minnesota, Miami (NCAAs)

Yes, you are right there are plenty of underperformances. But there are also quite a few games where we overperformed. Funny how you mention Izzo, but Groce has beat him twice in East Lansing and took him to the wire another time. Also, look at how many games we overpeformed when we had a somewhat well rounded team.
 
#1,235      
Stevegarbs
Tron2010 said:
We should have a thorne in our opponents' sides as well:D
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#1,238      
combes
brosox said:
Is there any update on our walking wounded? I am particularly interested in knowing if Tracy and Lucas will be 100% by the start of workouts in October.
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I heard a few days ago that Abrams is playing especially well right now. Shooting, included.

Hopefully, that translates into the season.
 
#1,239      
Joel Goodson
zpfled said:
We should create a poll to decide who won the debate between geneseo and Westervelt
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And prolong the agony? No thank you.

FWLIW, don't need a poll to ascertain the "winner."
 
#1,241      
Joel Goodson
combes said:
I heard a few days ago that Abrams is playing especially well right now. Shooting, included.

Hopefully, that translates into the season.
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+infinity

Hopefully, he stays healthy.
 
#1,242      
rtbritt
combes said:
I heard a few days ago that Abrams is playing especially well right now. Shooting, included.

Hopefully, that translates into the season.
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This is good news to the level-headed Loyalty members. We understand to take this for what it's worth.

It makes sense that his shooting might improve. I'm sure at certain points of recovery from the ACL and then later after the achilles tear, he couldn't do much, except maybe set shooting.

Looking forward to seeing him play again! :thumb:
:shield:
 
#1,243      
t7nich
According to Dee on twitter, Lil T-bone (Tejon) is working hard and will be ready to go!
 
#1,246      
Illiniguy13
combes said:
I heard a few days ago that Abrams is playing especially well right now. Shooting, included.

Hopefully, that translates into the season.
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Not sure if it's the same source, but Scott Richey was also talking up Tracy's shooting in last weeks bball chat.
 
#1,247      
Epsilon
Illiniguy13 said:
Not sure if it's the same source, but Scott Richey was also talking up Tracy's shooting in last weeks bball chat.
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I tried listening to a few of those but they were just painful. I'm surprised you got anything new from that.
 
#1,249      
Epsilon
Illiniguy13 said:
He actually watches practices & has some good input.
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Good to know. I tried to watch a couple over the summer and there was nothing really to talk about except speculation. Perhaps I'll give him another try.
 
#1,250      
IlliniInOK
Just saw from Werner on Twitter that JCL broke his hand in practice Wednesday, out 8 weeks.
 
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