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Illini Basketball 2016-2017
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BananaShampoo
Captain 'Paign
- Phoenix, AZ
Thanks, combes. I'm trying not to get too excited about Kipper, but I feel like we may have a real sleeper on our hands.
Yes, thanks Combes! Agreed on the excitement around Kipper. I think we'd all agree PG remains the position of greatest concern. I also think most of us hope that JCL grows into the role of 2nd best player on the team this year (possibly 3rd behind Thorne). With that in mind, I think many have taken a glass half full approach to Nunn's dismissal. I believe JCL can replace Nunn's starter minutes. But after PG, I believe the next biggest question mark for this team is depth behind Hill and JCL at the wing. Long story short, Kipper might be the difference between NCAA and NIT this year... So positive reports are great to hear.
Wait, wait, is Kipper the same Tulane, 3*, mid major recruit that was going to play behind DJW? Seems like I read that somewhere on here.
Exactly. If he turns out to be a valuable rotation guy this year, it's a welcome surprise to me. And at a position I fear we will need it after Nunn's departure.
Man... Kendrick. That still stings
You can take the kipper news and run with it. There's something to be said about the "3* mid major transfer" who is essentially assigned to guard Hill routinely in practice. Cue the "he's a freshman!" chants.
I think he hit a three in the previous scrimmage as well. I am going to dive deep in the Orange Kool-Aid here and try to stir up the sugar on the bottom. Tate's sophomore FT% shows he can shoot. Last year, perhaps, he never really recovered from that ugly finger injury.
If he could hit just one three per game, the defense would at least have to acknowledge his existence at the three point line. If that happened, his plus passing skills could leave Big Mike very well fed.
OK, time to come up for air. Not actually predicting this, it is just a best case scenario because I really like Tate.
Hate losing the depth, and everyone has the right to atone, but I'm still REALLY glad JG. and JW didn't prioritize a couple wins over character.
Just as a reference, Jawun Evans averaged less than one made three a game last year and he shot over 40%. Even if Tate made a three per game, that would mean he would need to take anywhere between 3-6 threes a game. No thanks. I'd rather have Hill, JCL, Jordan, Kipper, or damn near anyone else take those attempts. That doesn't mean that his % won't increase, I just don't think it would be best for our team for him to take as many shots. JMO.
That is the likeliest lineup. As much as I like Kipper, I have only seen him twice. Have to see him in real games. Finke will battle Black for time. Morgan will back up Thorne. The battle for the backup wings behind Hill and JCL should be interesting. Jordan, Nichols, and Williams all have strengths that could help the team.
I'm hoping Jordan work in the offseason really helps him be more aggressive same with Williams Heres hoping the light has been turned on with both as they should see good mins
No way combes doesn't have Finke in that lineup.
Yep, long time Finke fan. He has already been better than some of his early detractors thought he would be.
. Hard to argue with Black's rebounding, though.If I was coaching this team, here are some base line ups I would go with. I'm using what I've seen out of guys in the past, plus the recent reports given by observers and Groce in interviews, and my overall expectations of individual players. Toying with line ups is one of my most favorite things to do, and obviously very subjective.
Notes: Aside from the defensive specific lineup, I'm basing most of these on how I feel the offense fits together. Defense might give up some points but hopefully we can buckle down when necessary and be efficient offensively.
All line ups are based on having the full roster, so post Leron suspension and when Kipper is available. Any place there might be "controversy" I'll explain my choice.
Starters
Tracy
JCL
Hill
Finke: plenty of people have said it and I agree, Thorne and Finke have very complimentary skill sets.
Thorne
First backups by position
Tate: I just don't think TJL will be ready to overtake Tate this year. Ankle setback was worse than I anticipated.
Kipper: last year the game appeared to move too fast for Jordan. Nothing but positives reported about Kipper from multiple sources. I really, really like AJ and think when he's maxed out as a senior he will be one of our most important players, but I think Kipper has the edge right now, and physically he's obviously one of the biggest, best athletes we have.
DJ: Really looking at him to jump this year. Maybe about 15 mins a game.
Black: Black + Morgan = complimentary skill sets as well. This is not a knock on Leron in any way, but I also really like the energy he brings. A guy who does that off the bench is super important.
Morgan: Man did he develop last year or what?
Small Line-up
Tracy: in an ideal world, TJL is ready to run a specialty line up and this is it. When you go small you want shooting, and I think he's the best shooter of the 3 pgs.
JCL
Malcolm
Kipper: I think he's a better fit than Malcolm at the small ball 4 because he is stronger, more athletic, and if he's guarding Hill in practice, he'll be a better defender for it. Plus athleticism and motor should lead to an extra rebound or 2 as well.
Finke: Again for shooting. Hopefully added strength will allow him to be more competitive defensively down low when necessary.
Big Line-up
Malcolm: I really wanna see him take some back up PG minutes this year, and have a Denzel Valentine-esque senior year.
Kipper
DJ: make the leap please!
Finke: I think shooting is really important lol
Thorne
Need a 3 line up: Every team has a rotation and specialty plays (sets/BLOBs/SLOBs) for the "need a 3" situation. I'm going with the overall, just put your five best shooters on the floor and let your situational practice time and in game execution do the rest, idea.
Malcolm
JCL
AJ
KIpper
Finke
D/Need a stop and/or a rebound line-up: we either need a stop to end the game, or need a stop to rebound and call time out to set up our last play.
Malcolm/DJ/Kipper: These 3 switch everything on the perimeter. Tracy has obviously been a very good defender over his years, but even without the injuries, you go height+length+athleticism.
Malcolm/DJ/Kipper
Malcolm/DJ/Kipper
Black
Thorne
Now let's have the season come and have Groce and Co. show me how off I am!
Notes: Aside from the defensive specific lineup, I'm basing most of these on how I feel the offense fits together. Defense might give up some points but hopefully we can buckle down when necessary and be efficient offensively.
All line ups are based on having the full roster, so post Leron suspension and when Kipper is available. Any place there might be "controversy" I'll explain my choice.
Starters
Tracy
JCL
Hill
Finke: plenty of people have said it and I agree, Thorne and Finke have very complimentary skill sets.
Thorne
First backups by position
Tate: I just don't think TJL will be ready to overtake Tate this year. Ankle setback was worse than I anticipated.
Kipper: last year the game appeared to move too fast for Jordan. Nothing but positives reported about Kipper from multiple sources. I really, really like AJ and think when he's maxed out as a senior he will be one of our most important players, but I think Kipper has the edge right now, and physically he's obviously one of the biggest, best athletes we have.
DJ: Really looking at him to jump this year. Maybe about 15 mins a game.
Black: Black + Morgan = complimentary skill sets as well. This is not a knock on Leron in any way, but I also really like the energy he brings. A guy who does that off the bench is super important.
Morgan: Man did he develop last year or what?
Small Line-up
Tracy: in an ideal world, TJL is ready to run a specialty line up and this is it. When you go small you want shooting, and I think he's the best shooter of the 3 pgs.
JCL
Malcolm
Kipper: I think he's a better fit than Malcolm at the small ball 4 because he is stronger, more athletic, and if he's guarding Hill in practice, he'll be a better defender for it. Plus athleticism and motor should lead to an extra rebound or 2 as well.
Finke: Again for shooting. Hopefully added strength will allow him to be more competitive defensively down low when necessary.
Big Line-up
Malcolm: I really wanna see him take some back up PG minutes this year, and have a Denzel Valentine-esque senior year.
Kipper
DJ: make the leap please!
Finke: I think shooting is really important lol
Thorne
Need a 3 line up: Every team has a rotation and specialty plays (sets/BLOBs/SLOBs) for the "need a 3" situation. I'm going with the overall, just put your five best shooters on the floor and let your situational practice time and in game execution do the rest, idea.
Malcolm
JCL
AJ
KIpper
Finke
D/Need a stop and/or a rebound line-up: we either need a stop to end the game, or need a stop to rebound and call time out to set up our last play.
Malcolm/DJ/Kipper: These 3 switch everything on the perimeter. Tracy has obviously been a very good defender over his years, but even without the injuries, you go height+length+athleticism.
Malcolm/DJ/Kipper
Malcolm/DJ/Kipper
Black
Thorne
Now let's have the season come and have Groce and Co. show me how off I am!
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I think Black starts ahead of Finke. Minutes at the 4 will probably be split 25/15 in favor of Black. We need his rebounding and Finke can come off the bench as a stretch 4 in order to take advantage of a matchup. I'm not buying that Thorne/Finke will automatically be better Thorne/Black because it'll be very matchup depended.
I think Finke will get more then 15 mins at least till we can see black play under control and not foul but I agree Black will be the starter I also think Finke will still get mins at the 5 I just think it will be tough to get 40 mins out of Thorne and mav every game
Yep, long time Finke fan. He has already been better than some of his early detractors thought he would be.
Both will play a lot of course. I do wonder if we wouldn't be better off playing Finke w/ Thorne and Black w/ Mav, though. Seems like those would be more complementary pairings, though the rotations don't always work out like that.
You're right, 15 might be a tad low for Finke, it might be closer to a 20/20 split for Finke and Black. However, I find it hard to imagine a scenario where both Morgan and Thorne are on the bench. By all accounts, Thorne is our 2nd best player on the team only behind Malcolm and Morgan has shown last year that he can hold his own in the paint against B10 competition. Overall, our weakness inside last year should be one of the team's strength this year.
you are more then likely right on that point I wonder if Black or Finke could play some mins at the 3 since really in the offence JG runs the 3 and 4 aren't all that different and I believe Black is fast enough to guard a 3
Thorne Finke Black Hill and take your pick would give you shooting and rebounding might have to play a zone though on F
No
I would say the 2 and the 3 are similar, not the 3 and the 4. Most teams play 3 guards these days and Black is not not going to have much success chasing guards around the perimeter. We need to have Hill and JCL out there as much as possible
Yeah, no thanks. That would mean either Hill playing PG or leaving JCL on the bench.
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