Illini Basketball 2016-2017

#601      
Do you mean for P5 players at his position? Bottom tier is a stretch, IMO. I think Malcolm is average athletically: runs okay, not very explosive, strong, good coordination. He's not some kind of stiff - he's just not Andrew Wiggins. Average at worst as an all-around athlete. As a ball handler he's not great, but again, "bottom tier" is not accurate. He's probably average for a P5 wing.

Malcolm would be ideal as a #2 or elite #3 scoring option on a top team. It's unfortunate that he's by far our best player and, as such, has to deal with unrealistic expectations. However, let's not pretend he's got horrible deficiencies: he's a borderline NBA prospect for a reason, and it's not just his step-back mid-range jumper. He's an okay athlete, okay playmaker, okay outside shooter, okay defender, okay rebounder, and a dynamite (sometimes unstoppable) scorer from the elbow to the circle. He's lower tier athletically compared to 1st round NBA draft picks, but that's a whole different conversation.

For the record, I'd bet $1,000 that Malcolm would beat Taylor Bruninga 15-0 almost every time if they played 1-on-1

You're correct, bottom tier is a little harsh for him; he is more middle of the pack, but I don't feel anything greater than that is proper. I should've stated that when I think of athletes (even on our team), Malcolm is not the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or even 4th name that I think of that fits that bill.

Malcolm "basketballs" well, if that makes any sense. He's a tremendous "basketball" player; he's improving from 3, his mid-range is on, has a good IQ. But he doesn't have that athleticism that puts good players to great players and great players to elite players that the game of basketball requires nowadays (that's a different discussion).

I don't agree with the idea that we should recruit projects and hope they pan out because getting higher tiered players hasn't worked out for us. That is ludicrous to me.

I think a lot of great teams have stupid athleticism that they pair with good "basketball" ability (I'd say Malcolm has great "basketball" ability for reference). The players may not be the most technically skilled "basketball" players, but dang can they do things that over half our team can't do right now. That's why I really think Trent Frazier will be the darling of this class when all is said and done.
 
#602      
I am not one to be on the fire Groce train but the one thing I can't let slide is the lack of "identity" with Groce's teams. When you look around the league, the successful programs are typically known for something that they have yea rover year (Izzo's focus on hustle plays, Wiscos slow tempto and focus on good possessions, Duke's love for shooters).

Offensively the players seem to take turns hovering beyond the arc waiting until somebody beats their man or we run a high pick n roll and hope for the best. When I watch other teams with successful offenses, they seem to have a standard offensive scheme with flex/baseline cuts, 4 guys high at the FT line running off each other and various other additions like backdoor cuts/slipscreens/dribble handoff etc. to keep teams honest. Throughout Groce's time here I have always felt underwhelmed by his offense and don't really see it changing.


Defensively I believe you should have an identity as well. For example Cuse plays the stretch zone, VCU Havoc, WVU full court press etc. I am not saying we should implement the full court press per se, but I wish Groce had an identity and then recruited to fill roles within the system. When looking at Huggins' team it appears he finds the most athletic high motor guys that are willing to buy into the press idea and tells them to run around like crazy and create turnovers. If you are tired, he has a bench full of like minded and able bodied individuals that can sub in to give you a break. Our defense cannot play man to man for some
reason which results in us dropping into some sort of loose 2-3 zone D. The strategy there sees to be, "get them to shoot it, hope for the miss and then hope for the rebound" and does not appear to be effective.

I think Groce is a great guy, mentor/leader and perfect representation of the University but I believe his lack of identity on both ends of the floor will keep him hovering around mediocrity and thus will not be the long term solution.

I completely agree. They lack a rudder. Groce is good with sound bites and catch phrases. I.e. "Ten toes in". Unfortunately, they lack substance.
 
#603      
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For the record, I'd bet $1,000 that Malcolm would beat Taylor Bruninga 15-0 almost every time if they played 1-on-1

I'd take that bet and give you 5 to 1 on it, we have no one on this team that can play that good of D
 
#604      
I completely agree. They lack a rudder. Groce is good with sound bites and catch phrases. I.e. "Ten toes in". Unfortunately, they lack substance.

It's getting harder and harder to watch JG's press conferences with their repetition. Note closely how many times the phrase, "Obviously this, obviously that", is used. This is about as annoying as one who uses the phrase, "ya know, ya know", over and over. Time for a Toastmasters refresher course, coach, obviously. Yet, what will be more annoying is if the Illini don't start winning games again, ya know.
 
#605      
I completely agree. They lack a rudder. Groce is good with sound bites and catch phrases. I.e. "Ten toes in". Unfortunately, they lack substance.

I agree as well, but its not all on Groce. Either of Hill or Abrams have had the opportunity to step up on the court and take a leadership role. The last three minutes of the Winthrop game is an example where someone needed to step up and say "we're holding on to this thing no matter what".

Complete lack of leadership on the court and a reflection of Groce's shortcomings.
 
#606      

riffraff

Peoria
http://illiniboard.com/2016/11/27/tejon-might-be-pretty-good/

Groce, a coach often criticized for letting perceived future stars languor on the bench, gave Lucas the ultimate vote of confidence. He let him run the show for significant stretches without the assistance (or hindrance) of either Abrams or Tate. It was even more heartening to see that Lucas’ duty wasn’t to shepherd the ball up the court, pass to Malcolm on the wing, and run to the opposite corner. He dictated the offense for significant stretches in ways we haven’t seen an Illinois point guard do in some time.
 
#607      
Whitman breaks his silence with the following tweet:

"We remain unflinching in our confidence, unwavering in our effort and unyielding in our vision for a bold successful future."
 
#608      

whovous

Washington, DC
Whitman breaks his silence with the following tweet:

"We remain unflinching in our confidence, unwavering in our effort and unyielding in our vision for a bold successful future."

The guy should be a politician. That could mean almost anything!
 
#613      
Play like we did tonight: 21-10
Go back to our old ways:16-15

Not to be a downer but we looked pretty darn awful the first half... They just had so many turnovers that it kept the game close. If we play like the second half 21 wins is possible, but playing an entire game like we did we wont win more than 18 games.
 
#614      
A second unit of Abrams-Jordan-Kipper-DJ-Finke sounds so enticing that I never want to actually see it in game. My expectations are too high lol
 
#615      
updated Linardi bracketology ( obviously doesn't matter in December, but good indication of how the teams we have played stack up so far according to an "expert"

Big Ten 7 teams in: Indiana (3),Wisconsin (4), Purdue (5),Ohio State (7),Michigan State (7), Michigan (8), Maryland (10)

West Virginia (6)
Florida St (8)
VCU (8)
NC St:First Team Out
BYU: OUT (surprising, look really good)

Others:
Temple:First 4 Out
 
#617      

breadman

Herndon, VA
You know, I can see the health of this team, the depth of this team, the seniority of this team, the quality of talent, but one thing that I really overlooked is the lack of experience this team has of playing meaningful games together. Leron himself pointed this out in the NCState post game presser. I want to thank others on this thread who brought this to my attention. I had a feeling I was missing an ingredient to our potential success but couldn't put my finger on it.

Also, as Groce himself brought out in the post game, is this "Hero Ball" hangover goofyness that still creeps into the guy's mind. I don't want to see or hear about this anymore.
 
#618      

Illini1221

Peru,IL
updated Linardi bracketology ( obviously doesn't matter in December, but good indication of how the teams we have played stack up so far according to an "expert"

Big Ten 7 teams in: Indiana (3),Wisconsin (4), Purdue (5),Ohio State (7),Michigan State (7), Michigan (8), Maryland (10)

West Virginia (6)
Florida St (8)
VCU (8)
NC St:First Team Out
BYU: OUT (surprising, look really good)

Others:
Temple:First 4 Out

I dont see how Temple is out. Yes, they had a brutal loss to N.H., but theyve beaten FSU and West Virginia, and then went on the road to win at St Joes. Only December though:)
 
#619      
Would anybody be disappointed with our record going into conference play if we take care of business and finish at 10-3 heading into the Maryland game? Going 9-9 in the conference avoiding any bad losses would give us a decent shot at the big dance. Especially if we won our first B1G tourne game and got to 20 wins.


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#620      

frozenrope9190

Aurora, IL
Would anybody be disappointed with our record going into conference play if we take care of business and finish at 10-3 heading into the Maryland game? Going 9-9 in the conference avoiding any bad losses would give us a decent shot at the big dance. Especially if we won our first B1G tourne game and got to 20 wins.


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I personally think that 10-8 is the minimum for us, along with a B10 Tourney win, to qualify for the dance, unless one of the wins is against Indiana or Michigan St. Conference is not as strong as it's been in years' past, and 9-9 in conference play might not be strong enough with that Winthrop loss hanging over us.
 
#622      
I personally think that 10-8 is the minimum for us, along with a B10 Tourney win, to qualify for the dance, unless one of the wins is against Indiana or Michigan St. Conference is not as strong as it's been in years' past, and 9-9 in conference play might not be strong enough with that Winthrop loss hanging over us.

Michigan State should be a great win but it would be a home game and they haven't been that good so far this season so there are teams that will be stronger resume builders in the conference play. Indiana, Wisconsin, Ohio State, and Michigan would all count as better wins with MSU struggling right now. A 10-8 record, and a tourney win, would be enough to avoid the bubble if we win out non-conference play. I would take a 9-9 record and a couple of tourney wins as well though. It might be more bubblicious but I would take that after seeing our floor so far this season. But to answer to OG poster, I would have been content with a 10-3 non conference record even before the season, so I would definitely be happy with it now.
 
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#623      

frozenrope9190

Aurora, IL
Michigan State should be a great win but it would be a home game and they haven't been that good so far this season so there are teams that will be stronger resume builders in the conference play. Indiana, Wisconsin, Ohio State, and Michigan would all count as better wins with MSU struggling right now. A 10-8 record, and a tourney win, would be enough to avoid the bubble if we win out non-conference play. I would take a 9-9 record and a couple of tourney wins as well though. It might be more bubblicious but I would take that after seeing our floor so far this season. But to answer to OG poster, I would have been content with a 10-3 non conference record even before the season, so I would definitely be happy with it now.

I hear ya'. Michigan State feels a bit down this year (they had a huge scare with Oral Roberts this weekend), but they always seem to play better as the season goes along, and they had a massively difficult non-conference; I just feel that will be a good win to have as the season goes along. But I agree; win out the non-con, go 10-8 in conference and grab a win in the tourney and we shouldn't have to sweat. Anything less equals sweating.
 
#624      
Okay, here is a realistic prediction for the rest of the season IMO:

Tue, Dec 6 IUPUI: W. Anything less than a 20 point win will lead to a meltdown in the post game thread.

Sat, Dec 10 Central Michigan: W. Same thing as the previous game.

Sat, Dec 17 BYU: W. No chance that the staff doesn't have the guys ready for this one. Especially with NW playing before us.

Wed, Dec 21 Mizzou: W. Mizzou is still bad but will be ready for this one. So will we. The Braggin Rights Trophy stays in it's rightful home for a fourth straight year. A loss here would also lead to a message board meltdown.

Tue, Dec 27 @Maryland : L. I still am not sold on MD being a serious contender, but they've found a way to win games in non conference. We have no answer for Trimble, and I think Cowan and Dodd can create problems for us as well. I think MD wins a close one here.

Sun, Jan 1 Ohio State: W. I'm still not sold on tOSU being a dark horse B1G contender. Very minimal depth off their bench, and I still believe that the only starting position that I can objectively say they are stronger than us at is PG. We are stronger at the 2-5 spots. Thank the Lord that Daniel Giddens transferred. He was the difference in both of our close losses to them last year.

Sat, Jan 7 @Indiana: L. No chance here. Not at their place. Hopefully we can keep it in single digits.

Wed, Jan 11 Michigan: W. They haven't seemed as strong as I thought they'd be so far this year. This is one that we should win being at home.

Sat, Jan 14 Maryland: W. Again, not sold on them. They've got some pieces to match up with us, but this is one we should win at home.

Tue, Jan 17 @Purdue L. We've got pieces to match up well with them. We definitely overmatch them at the guards and wings, but I see us losing because Purdue just plays at a different level at Mackey.

Sat, Jan 21 @Michigan: L. Again, haven't been impressed with them so far, but I think Belein has them ready for this one. We lose in a close one.

Wed, Jan 25 Iowa: W. By double digits. They've struggled so far this year.

Sat, Jan 28 @Penn State: L. We are always good for one win that we should have lost and one loss where we should have won. Our bad loss comes here. Penn State's talented young guys go off in this game and they win a close one. BTN then continues to hype up ILL/PSU as a hot rivalry. (barf)

Tue, Jan 31 Wisconsin: L. I think we have the talent to match up with them this year, but I'll be safe here and say we lose in a close one.

Sat, Feb 4 Minnesota: W. Minny is improved, but not good enough to beat us. This should be a double digit win for us.

Tue, Feb 7 @Northwestern: W. I've seen posters talk about how good NW is this year. I think Groce and staff are aware of this and there's no way they don't have the guys ready for this one. We always bring several fans to their place and our injury depleted team barely lost to them last year in Evanston. We win a close one here.

Sat, Feb 11 Penn State: W. They've got the talent to make some runs on us, but I think we pull away in this one late for a double digit win.

Sat, Feb 18 @Iowa: W. I see it being close because it's in Iowa City, but we should win this one.

Tue, Feb 21 Northwestern: W. I think it's closer than most fans would like, but we will be ready to go against little brother.

Sun, Feb 26 @Nebraska: W. I see them as a weaker version of Penn State this year. Young talent is there with Watson and Morrow, but not enough to get over the hump against us. I could see this one being closer than fans would like, but at the end of the day, we pull out the W.

Wed, Mar 1 Michigan State: W. Here is our game we are supposed to lose but we win. I'm not sold at all by MSUs slow start this year. I see them pulling a total MSU move by getting into the dance as a 6-7 seed and then making a FF run. They always play their best at the end of the year. Fortunately, all of Groce's teams except year three also played their best at the end of the year. This is senior night and there's no way our 6 seniors go out at home with anything other than a W.

Sat, Mar 4 @Rutgers: W. By double digits and in regulation.

Final record: 12-6 B1G 22-9 overall. Safely in the tournament, but closer to the bubble than we may think, because our only quality conference wins would be over UM and MSU. Our wins over MD and tOSU would probably only be considered okay wins.

Pessimists, don't be offended by the conference record. It's more attainable than you think. We play each of the pre-season top four B1G teams once this year.
I have UI going 1-3 against those teams. Our ceiling IMO is finishing anywhere from 4th-6th in the B1G with our floor finishing anywhere from 8th-10th.
Feel free to comment with your own predictions. Go Illini!
 
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#625      
Final record: 12-6 B1G 22-9 overall. Safely in the tournament, but closer to the bubble than we may think, because our only quality conference wins would be over UM and MSU. Our wins over MD and tOSU would probably only be considered okay wins.

Sorry but that's crazy talk. Going 12-6 and winning the rest of non-conference wouldn't have us even close to the bubble and would probably put us in the top 25 or at least receiving a decent amount of votes. That being said, it might be a little insane to expect us to go 12-6 given what we've seen so far. It's possible but man, I don't think we've earned that kind of optimism yet.