Illini Basketball 2017-2018

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#51      

TheFameProtector

TheFameProtector
Champaign
TheFameProtector
alexander58 said:
I can't see Black defending centers. Offense is not our largest problem but Black did not impress me defensively. It seemed to me that Kipper was much better defensively. Not nearly as high on Black's flexibility as some. He is a great rebounder but Not a defensive stopper.[/QUOT

I think Black made strides this season on understanding what he can get away with (with officials) on the court. But, with new emphasis on freedom of motion and contact under the basket, it becomes more difficult for undersized inside players to defend.
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One-on-one defense, I agree with you, I don't see Black guarding other 5s and I don't see him as a last line of defense. And he doesn't have the skills to play the 4, either. That said, he does have a decent wingspan, which might be helpful if he can figure out positioning and how to move his feet better. And he is near elite in terms of defensive rebounding, which I would expect to hold true even when giving up a few inches to an opposing 5.

Assuming we whiff on every other 5 option out there that might offer a true upgrade, my hope is that pressure D on the wings will help to mitigate some of Black's (and Finke's, for that matter) deficiencies, or at least give less opportunities for their exposure. This is the optimist in me looking/hoping for a bright side, but the reality is that Black won't be able to do much against a huge height difference (say when we play a true, quality 7-footer) regardless of any gains he might make.

It'll be a bumpy ride, but hey, that's been par for the course for the past few years anyways.
 
#52      

Idkhti37

I
Idkhti37
I'm not gonna lie. It moved a bit when I read that blurb in Norlander's article.

"I think he'll be there for more than a decade and will take the Illini to at least one Final Four...There is no better candidate Illinois could have landed..."
 
#54      

FiveStar

F
FiveStar
TheFameProtector said:
One-on-one defense, I agree with you, I don't see Black guarding other 5s and I don't see him as a last line of defense. And he doesn't have the skills to play the 4, either. That said, he does have a decent wingspan, which might be helpful if he can figure out positioning and how to move his feet better. And he is near elite in terms of defensive rebounding, which I would expect to hold true even when giving up a few inches to an opposing 5.

Assuming we whiff on every other 5 option out there that might offer a true upgrade, my hope is that pressure D on the wings will help to mitigate some of Black's (and Finke's, for that matter) deficiencies, or at least give less opportunities for their exposure. This is the optimist in me looking/hoping for a bright side, but the reality is that Black won't be able to do much against a huge height difference (say when we play a true, quality 7-footer) regardless of any gains he might make.

It'll be a bumpy ride, but hey, that's been par for the course for the past few years anyways.
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It's hard to have extreme pressure, denying defense on the perimeter without a rim protector on the back end.
 
#55      

AEX

AEX
Danger Zone
AEX
FiveStar said:
It's hard to have extreme pressure, denying defense on the perimeter without a rim protector on the back end.
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Any way we could get Egwu to disguise himself as a college freshman named Nagga Enwu and play for us for another four years? Who would notice?
 
#56      

Whitman2020

W
Whitman2020
Idkhti37 said:
I'm not gonna lie. It moved a bit when I read that blurb in Norlander's article.
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Just reading the news like...

LCWYFTK.gif
 
#57      

illiniwil

I
illiniwil
its one thing to have 4 guys who can shoot threes on the court to play this system. I think we can do that. but what we don't have is wings who can dribble drive and create off the dribble. if you put 4 guards on the court you can do that for a few possessions, he did that at OSU, but for it to really work those wings have to be big enough to rebound and still have ball skills. not sure those guys exist on our roster currently.
 
#58      

AEX

AEX
Danger Zone
AEX
illiniwil said:
its one thing to have 4 guys who can shoot threes on the court to play this system. I think we can do that. but what we don't have is wings who can dribble drive and create off the dribble. if you put 4 guards on the court you can do that for a few possessions, he did that at OSU, but for it to really work those wings have to be big enough to rebound and still have ball skills. not sure those guys exist on our roster currently.
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This is all true, but I doubt that Underwood's players at SFA had all these necessary skills before the played for him. Underwood appears to have the ability to coach up the skills necessary for his system to succeed.
 
#59      

TheGMan

TheGMan
TheGMan
AEX said:
Any way we could get Egwu to disguise himself as a college freshman named Nagga Enwu and play for us for another four years? Who would notice?
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From everything I have read about Coach Underwood's system, and my very limited understanding of such, it sounds like Egwu would have been perfect for this system. Such a shame.
 
#60      

illiniwil

I
illiniwil
good point AEX, but at SFA (in that conference)he could get by with 4 smaller guards with ball skills. not sure he can swing that too often in the big ten. rebounding will kill us. plus some of our competition has wings with those skills.
 
#61      

illiniwil

I
illiniwil
Also: I absolutely hope he can coach and teach those necessary skills to AJ and DJ most specifically.
 
#62      

AEX

AEX
Danger Zone
AEX
illiniwil said:
good point AEX, but at SFA (in that conference)he could get by with 4 smaller guards with ball skills. not sure he can swing that too often in the big ten. rebounding will kill us. plus some of our competition has wings with those skills.
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Agreed, while it's worth noting that SFA did have success in the tourney against P5 competition, playing BigTen players week in and week out is a different story.

Alternatively, it's been said that you can't teach size, so, perhaps we're better off having a few bigger athletes who need skill development than having skilled players who will not grow any more. Maybe Leron will be an awkward fit next year, but perhaps by his second year in the system will have a player with PF size and SF skills. Here's to dreaming.:thumb:
 
#63      

FiveStar

F
FiveStar
TheGMan said:
From everything I have read about Coach Underwood's system, and my very limited understanding of such, it sounds like Egwu would have been perfect for this system. Such a shame.
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Egwu would be a good guy to clean up on the back end in our new pressure defense. Offensively thinking of him operating with the ball in his hands out of the high post, and having to pass and catch in tight windows, would scare me quite frankly.
 
#64      

Deleted member 186590

D
Guest
Deleted member 186590
I'm very excited to see this offense in BU's system. We have good shooters, which is key, but our big guys being able to step out and shoot will benefit as well. Black as the 4 will definitely be able to post up in the basic set rotation. Finke as the 5 will man the high post and post up occasionally on the baseline, which is good for his turnaround jumper.

It's not good for a do it all himself PG and doesn't require a PG to really run the whole offense, which is good for Lucas. Frazier will likely start day one given our lineup. I see Frazier, Lucas and JCL all starting with Kipper coming off the bench.

Defensively - well we're going to have to pressure and create turnovers, our post defense will be the worst we've seen in many years and that is saying something.
 
#65      

Ga65

G
Ga65
Defensively - well we're going to have to pressure and create turnovers, our post defense will be the worst we've seen in many years and that is saying something.[/QUOTE]

It's seems Finke has the offensive skills and am still hoping OA can coach some big man defense. Really like to see a Kiir like man in this class as a back-up and future rim protector. If we get Smith or DaW is healthy we have some pretty good pieces at the other positions. Anderson and Badocchi would certainly up the ante but reasonable without them.
 
#66      

Greensboro

Greensboro
Greensboro
Henson71 said:
Black as the 4 will definitely be able to post up in the basic set rotation. Finke as the 5 will man the high post and post up occasionally on the baseline, which is good for his turnaround jumper.
I see Frazier, Lucas and JCL all starting with Kipper coming off the bench.
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I'd bet Black & Finke don't both start, it likely depends who we find as a 5th yr transfer (at least hopefully find); but it is a scary thought to be sitting with only those 2 as bigs at this time of the year. That is not enough & as you hint there isn't really a 5 there.
 
#67      

foby

foby
Bonnaroo Land
foby
TownieMatt said:
I'm not saying your wrong with this Egwu example, but I'm really starting to get a chuckle out the fact that every player under the sun would be a great fit for Underwood's system.

As a little thought experiment, here are the types of players at each position I see benefiting from Underwood's 4-Out system:

PG - Guys that don't need the ball in their hand's constantly to make plays. This isn't Groce's (supposedly) PG-ball screen offense. PG's in this system benefit if they can get to the basket and make quick incisive passes.

SG/SF - These two positions are the same in Underwood's system (and also very similar to the 4). Guys with size that can get to the basket benefit big time. This offense is all about creating an imbalanced floor that presents one on one opportunities to drive to the basket. On the flip-side, spot up shooters are going to see as big of a benefit. The focus on attacking the basket constantly will result in kick out opportunities for shooters, but this offense isn't primarily focused on getting guys open threes from off-ball screens.

PF - There seem to be a couple variations in Underwood's scheme for the 4. Often this guy plays the system very similar to the 2 and 3, diving to the basket or getting one-on-one opportunities (Jeffrey Carroll played the second most minutes at PF last season for OKST). However, if the 4 is a more traditional big, there are also post up opportunities. This position in Underwood's offense is best served by a really versatile guy that can get to the basket, but also has the size to post-up when needed.

C - Skill, skill, skill. This guy needs to have the ability to pass and hit mid range jumpers. Also needs to be mobile, to get up and down the floor. Your traditional low-post banger is not going to do well with Underwood's system.
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:thumb:AWESOME JOB! I look forward to an improved Finke fitting in really well and doing some great things.
 
#68      

blackdog

blackdog
Champaign
blackdog
Also even though there is a lot of drives and attacking the rim in this offense a lot of it is based on movement and done off the catch not just iso breakdowns or dribbling around. Requires a lot less ball skills to attack a closeout or with the defender already in motion than a set defense.
 
#69      

ShellbackMB

S
ShellbackMB
What information has been released on the non-conference schedule thus far? Braggin' Rights and New Mexico State at the UC? Any other games?
 
#70      

WesterveltVictoryCigar

WesterveltVictoryCigar
WesterveltVictoryCigar
ShellbackMB said:
What information has been released on the non-conference schedule thus far? Braggin' Rights and New Mexico State at the UC? Any other games?
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Big Ten/ACC games are usually announced around this time of year, probably in a few weeks. We're also probably due for a Gavitt Games home game vs a Big East team.

We're going to Maui in 2018 so wouldn't expect any big tournament this year, probably a lower level event with a couple of cupcake home games.

The full schedule will be out in Aug/Sept.
 
#71      

TownieMatt

T
CU Expat
Chicago
TownieMatt
WesterveltVictoryCigar said:
Big Ten/ACC games are usually announced around this time of year, probably in a few weeks. We're also probably due for a Gavitt Games home game vs a Big East team.

We're going to Maui in 2018 so wouldn't expect any big tournament this year, probably a lower level event with a couple of cupcake home games.

The full schedule will be out in Aug/Sept.
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You mean like that Winthrop home game last year? :eek:
 
#72      

BDoug

B
BDoug
illiniwil said:
Also: I absolutely hope he can coach and teach those necessary skills to AJ and DJ most specifically.
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I love AJ's attitude, but let's be honest after 2 years we know what we have there (and don't bring the argument that he didn't get enough PT - his PT was what it was for a reason). With the (hopeful) addition of MS today and the addition of TF...there are just better options. Jordan's attitude and energy on the bench is applaudable - but that's where it belongs.

I'm excited about this year...go Illini!
 
#73      

foby

foby
Bonnaroo Land
foby
BDoug said:
I love AJ's attitude, but let's be honest after 2 years we know what we have there (and don't bring the argument that he didn't get enough PT - his PT was what it was for a reason). With the (hopeful) addition of MS today and the addition of TF...there are just better options. Jordan's attitude and energy on the bench is applaudable - but that's where it belongs.

I'm excited about this year...go Illini!
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True. The flipside of this coin is that all 7 returnees and the newcomers will be on a level playing field with a chance to shine in a new system. I would not be surprised if someone unexpected turned into a solid contributor or if someone who has played a lot in the past finds themselves logging significant bench minutes.
 
#74      

Whitman2020

W
Whitman2020
foby said:
True. The flipside of this coin is that all 7 returnees and the newcomers will be on a level playing field with a chance to shine in a new system. I would not be surprised if someone unexpected turned into a solid contributor or if someone who has played a lot in the past finds themselves logging significant bench minutes.
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I think either DJW or AJ take a big jump. I'm thinking its gonna be DJW, even though I love AJ.
 
#75      

Illiniman94

I
Illiniman94
Whitman2020 said:
I think either DJW or AJ take a big jump. I'm thinking its gonna be DJW, even though I love AJ.
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I think DJ and Groce for whatever reason clashed and I really think he is going to shock people this year. He was not a lightly regarded recruit and it was for a reason.
 
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