Illini Basketball 2017-2018

Status
Not open for further replies.
#901      

Adnarel

A
Adnarel
ChiefIllini said:
On paper, they'll be favorites barring injuries or a complete meltdown early.
Click to expand...
This is exactly my angle. Any sensible individual in the world, knowing what we know today at this exact instance in time, is going to easily call Mizzou the favorite in the Braggin' Rights game. Both new coaches. Both with new players learning a new system. But one team has far better incoming talent.

There are three X factors as I see it: injuries, the Martin Incompetence Factor, and the Underwood Special. We shall see what things look like in December.
 
#902      

battle

battle
battle
VAIllini35 said:
The question is, will they 'be there' collectively in late December, or is this a team that will 'be there' end of January. Even Cal's teams don't often show true potential until some time down the road... it will be interesting to see the differing styles (drilled to execute and harass vs young talent).
Click to expand...

I think this comes to who asserts their will.
I can't see BU letting them play to their strengths - BU has demonstrated he knows how to and can beat 'superior' teams.
Groce would let them dictate game, BU will force them (as much as possible) to play our game, not theirs - they still need guard play and ball-handling and need to play defense .... - how will they respond to push-pedal-to-the-metal pace and a Huggy-style press and defense (with 3 bigs - 2 porters and Tilmon) in Dec vs. in Feb/Mar (and younger Porter, I assume, was not enrolled in the summer). I hope they have 20+ TOs and Porter can only score so many points if he only gets so many touches and/or needs to rest on the bench...
It should be an exciting game and high scoring
 
#903      

Ga65

G
Ga65
Porter is obviously a very gifted athlete with some skills but one man will not win by himself. Counzo is going to have to build a team to utilize him. Dennis Smith was hyped last year and seemed to disappear in our game. However I must point out that Porter would be a great fit in BU's system.:huh:
 
#905      

Adnarel

A
Adnarel
They didn't even mention Blake Harris (who also came ultimately as a result of the Porter hire).
 
#907      

Fighter of the Nightman

Fighter of the Nightman
Chicago, IL
Fighter of the Nightman
RE: the GoT hype video ... I love it. :D

It really reminds me of the swagger we had during the mid-2000s and hope to regain during the BWood Era. Being the state flagship school of a giant state that is constantly being raided by other coaches and a hot spot for other teams' transplant fans, we have a natural "us against the world" mentality sometimes, and that video pumps me up to own that mentality.

Indiana scoffs from the east because they have five dusty banners? We don't care. That's in the past, and we'll take whatever they throw at us from now on.

Iowa yaps about their fantasies of the "Cheatin' Illini" from the west? We don't care. We'll continue to own that series.

Missouri has a new, flashy coach that is determined to poach recruits from our side of the river? We don't care. We'll make them pay for it in December in St. Louis.

We have been through a lot the last ten seasons, and it has beaten down a lot of our fans. I understand if some need to "see to believe" before they get that swagger back, but it's back for me. I enjoy NU fans thinking they're in a better spot than us because they made one NCAA Tournament ever; it will make beating them sweeter. I enjoy that Indiana is so pumped about Archie Miller that Brad Underwood and his Illini aren't even on their radar. I love that Missouri fans actually are delusional enough to think they have this rivalry on cruise control going forward because of Cuonzo. Illinois basketball has to prove itself again, and I cannot wait. Because we will. :chief:
 
#908      

Deleted member 8213

D
Guest
Deleted member 8213
Adnarel said:
This is exactly my angle. Any sensible individual in the world, knowing what we know today at this exact instance in time, is going to easily call Mizzou the favorite in the Braggin' Rights game. Both new coaches. Both with new players learning a new system. But one team has far better incoming talent.

There are three X factors as I see it: injuries, the Martin Incompetence Factor, and the Underwood Special. We shall see what things look like in December.
Click to expand...

I guess I'm not a "sensible individual in the world." I see a tossup in a rivalry game that is usually closer than the 2 teams involved. Mizzou has lot of raw freshman talent, mostly inside, very little in the way of returning talent, and a coach who has not shown the ability to coach players up. Will they be able to get the ball inside to those guys consistently against our guards, will those freshmen be adjusted to the speed of the game after a month and a half of games against mostly inferior opponents? I don't know, but the level of Mizzou trepidation on this board is not what I would call "sensible." :noidea:

Edit to add: I know one thing, in years where I don't feel we will be competitive I always contemplate skipping this game because I can't stand the thought of walking out of that place getting jeered at by 10,000 Missouri rednecks. I always go anyway because I hate the thought of missing a classic game where we send them scurrying with their tails between their legs (Rayvonte Rice) even worse... this year I will be purchasing my tickets enthusiastically. Oh and I hope you guys are all right that they are massive favorites because that will make Tiger tears that much sweeter!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
#909      

Adnarel

A
Adnarel
I admit the Martin Incompetence Factor is a pretty important variable. Perhaps I'm not assigning it enough weight. I may even change my tune about the Braggin' Rights game as few as 5 games into the season. We'll just have to see.

For now, I can't blame impartial observers for favoring Mizzou. I just can't. Privately, I hope for the sort of game you're describing. I'm going to try my best to be there again this season, as I have just recently regained my hearing from when Rice hit his shot. :)
 
#910      

Ga65

G
Ga65
Texas is also going to be interesting. Shaka Smart has done a great recruiting job, now for the coaching job. We wanted him when we got JG but he hasn't done much to date.
 
#911      

Greensboro

Greensboro
Greensboro
Adnarel said:
For now, I can't blame impartial observers for favoring Mizzou. I just can't.
Click to expand...

I think this is fair for impartial observer, but I'm with Goldie on this one. Recruiting class does not = instant success. Think Ben Simmons at LSU, Kentucky usually takes some time to gel & Mizzou class shouldn't be mistaken for Kentucky class in balance, numbers, & pieces left from last year.

to put some numbers here, right now Miznoz is 4th on 247:
Past History - (recruiting rank)Team Record

2016
(3) MSU 20-15; (4th) FSU 26-9; (5) NCState 15 -7

2015
(3) Tex A&M 28-9; (4th) OSU 21-14; (5) L'Ville 23-8

2014
(3) UNLV 18-15; (4th) L'Ville 27-9; (5) OSU 24-11

2013
(3) Memphis 24-10; (4th) Ind (11-15); (5) L'Ville 31-6

Take a ways, no guarantees for success, note L'ville was in this range 3 yrs in a row, OSU 2 times, so I'm sure the base talent on most of these teams is higher than Mizzou. NCState last year was a bit of a flyer on underperforming, but there big guy was ineligible for a number of games. MSU last year was more of a reload for them than usual & it took them a while to gel with a bunch of freshman. I'm ok with them being favored, but there is a lot of noise/variation on the reasonable outcomes for next season from both Mizzou & ILL. With Mizzou counting more heavily on freshman, I think it is likely they progress more/faster than we do over the year, so early favors us more than later in the year.
 
#912      

illinitiger

I
illinitiger
Adnarel said:
I admit the Martin Incompetence Factor is a pretty important variable. Perhaps I'm not assigning it enough weight. I may even change my tune about the Braggin' Rights game as few as 5 games into the season. We'll just have to see.

For now, I can't blame impartial observers for favoring Mizzou. I just can't. Privately, I hope for the sort of game you're describing. I'm going to try my best to be there again this season, as I have just recently regained my hearing from when Rice hit his shot. :)
Click to expand...

even if we start strong in the season, I dont see how we are favored. if we win, it should be a huge confidence boost for fans and players. I dont see a W for UI, if Mizzou's 2 best players have played together for the last 12+ yrs (porter brothers). Did we determine if younger Porter is eligible for our game?
 
#913      

Joel Goodson

Joel Goodson
respect my decision™
Joel Goodson
illinitiger said:
even if we start strong in the season, I dont see how we are favored. if we win, it should be a huge confidence boost for fans and players. I dont see a W for UI, if Mizzou's 2 best players have played together for the last 12+ yrs (porter brothers). Did we determine if younger Porter is eligible for our game?
Click to expand...

Why wouldn't he be?
 
#914      

FiveStar

F
FiveStar
I'm clearly blinded by my orange tinted glasses, but I really don't see a scenario in which we lose to Miznoz, barring major injuries. Porters will go off, but college basketball games are decided by guard play, of which ours are better IMO.

Also, as most of you guys in here probably know from my posts, I have complete confidence in BU and his coaching ability.
 
#915      

pruman91

pruman91
Paducah, Ky
pruman91
jcgoldie said:
I guess I'm not a "sensible individual in the world." I see a tossup in a rivalry game that is usually closer than the 2 teams involved. Mizzou has lot of raw freshman talent, mostly inside, very little in the way of returning talent, and a coach who has not shown the ability to coach players up. Will they be able to get the ball inside to those guys consistently against our guards, will those freshmen be adjusted to the speed of the game after a month and a half of games against mostly inferior opponents? I don't know, but the level of Mizzou trepidation on this board is not what I would call "sensible." :noidea:

Edit to add: I know one thing, in years where I don't feel we will be competitive I always contemplate skipping this game because I can't stand the thought of walking out of that place getting jeered at by 10,000 Missouri rednecks. I always go anyway because I hate the thought of missing a classic game where we send them scurrying with their tails between their legs (Rayvonte Rice) even worse... this year I will be purchasing my tickets enthusiastically. Oh and I hope you guys are all right that they are massive favorites because that will make Tiger tears that much sweeter!
Click to expand...

good post

I think the game will depend on how much our guards can pressure the ball and disrupt their offense....no doubt they will try to play a half court game, but I think a lot of fans are underestimating our team and the new system we will run....

If it is in the eighties for both teams then I like our chances...If it in the 50's 0r 60's then it could be a long nite....
 
#916      

oskeewowwowboomtime

O
oskeewowwowboomtime
:thumb:
Fighter of the Nightman said:
RE: the GoT hype video ... I love it. :D

It really reminds me of the swagger we had during the mid-2000s and hope to regain during the BWood Era. Being the state flagship school of a giant state that is constantly being raided by other coaches and a hot spot for other teams' transplant fans, we have a natural "us against the world" mentality sometimes, and that video pumps me up to own that mentality.

Indiana scoffs from the east because they have five dusty banners? We don't care. That's in the past, and we'll take whatever they throw at us from now on.

Iowa yaps about their fantasies of the "Cheatin' Illini" from the west? We don't care. We'll continue to own that series.

Missouri has a new, flashy coach that is determined to poach recruits from our side of the river? We don't care. We'll make them pay for it in December in St. Louis.

We have been through a lot the last ten seasons, and it has beaten down a lot of our fans. I understand if some need to "see to believe" before they get that swagger back, but it's back for me. I enjoy NU fans thinking they're in a better spot than us because they made one NCAA Tournament ever; it will make beating them sweeter. I enjoy that Indiana is so pumped about Archie Miller that Brad Underwood and his Illini aren't even on their radar. I love that Missouri fans actually are delusional enough to think they have this rivalry on cruise control going forward because of Cuonzo. Illinois basketball has to prove itself again, and I cannot wait. Because we will. :chief:
Click to expand...
 
#917      

illinitiger

I
illinitiger
Joel Goodson said:
Why wouldn't he be?
Click to expand...



Answer to "why wouldnt he be? (younger Porter qualified for our game)"....

I thought I read a post here that younger Porter may be a partial qualifier or may not have eligibility clearance yet. A partial qualifier would mean he didnt get his 16 core courses or meet test requirements. dont think he would reclassify without clearing those hurdles. I think the partial qualification rules would render him to practice squad for the year (i.e. Lovett). Its conceivable though that he may have to wait for his eligibility clearance, unless the NCAA clearing house has gotten a jolt of efficiency recently and has cleared him already. All that said, I dont think he pulled the trigger on reclassifying if he didnt have confidence in eligibility clearance. Regardless, not looking forward to going against the Porter brothers, although I do agree that we will have various court and coaching advantages in the game.
 
#918      

Ga65

G
Ga65
The success of next year will be determined by the defense (IMO). Looked up 2005 stats as a yard stick. Team in conference play averaged nine more points than last year's team. Their opponents averaged nine points less. Can visualize the scoring increase just based on pace of play. Having a little more difficulty with the defensive improvement. Don't see it obvious with the personnel so it will have to come with the system and coaching. Will have to come with increased turn-overs due to pressure on the ball. Think it will be an early indicator of success.
 
#920      

EJ33

E
San Francisco
EJ33
New piece on Underwood from McColley: link
 
#921      

PlayAZ

P
PlayAZ
I would say recruiting just drastically slowed down until BU return then...no news is no news.
 
#922      

Illiniguy13

Illiniguy13
Illiniguy13
EJ33 said:
New piece on Underwood from McColley: link
Click to expand...

Can anybody put a name to these descriptions? :D

"llini basketball has been led by men with quizzical speech patterns. Except for three years under Bill Self, whose only verbal tic was that lip-licking thing, it’s been hard to listen to the head coach speaking.
Whether it was the gravely voice, the clichés, the lisp or the tremendous tremendous"
 
#925      

Squad33

S
bloomington, il
Squad33
Illiniguy13 said:
Can anybody put a name to these descriptions? :D

"llini basketball has been led by men with quizzical speech patterns. Except for three years under Bill Self, whose only verbal tic was that lip-licking thing, it’s been hard to listen to the head coach speaking.
Whether it was the gravely voice, the clichés, the lisp or the tremendous tremendous"
Click to expand...

Gravely voice - Weber
Cliches - Henson
Lisp - Kruger
Tremendous - Groce

That seem correct?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.