Illini Basketball 2018-2019

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#1,026      
Second and Chalmers
tpbradley said:
I'm thinking we need some positive recruiting news soon.
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Or maybe, I dunno, win a game?

When was the last time Illinois Basketball had a "hey, this team might actually be good!" sort of win? Not a desperation late season dead cat bounce, not a random upset, not mashing a cupcake, but a genuinely impressive optimism-inducing performance?

For my money it was November 28, 2014 when we beat Baylor in Vegas where we were just too tough and pugnacious for an extremely big and physical team. A great Ray Rice performance. That night was probably the peak of my Groce optimism. And was followed by our most recent appearance in the Top 25.

Of course, that proved to be the season where we just quit at the end of the year against Michigan in the BTT and Alabama in the NIT.

That's going on FOUR YEARS AGO. Just to find a game where you could feel a little bit of hope. That is why we are how we are. This fanbase has forgotten than winning is a thing.
 
#1,027      
EJ33
RIVERCITYCHIEF said:
I miss typed. I meant to say I never said he was not a good athlete. He certainly was a good athlete and solid really good player. Just not like those on the 89 team or an elite one imo. I'd love to have a player like him again.
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Hot take: Augustine would've started at center for the Flying Illini.
 
#1,030      
Peoria Illini
The only reason that Augie would start over Lowell Hamilton, is his height. 6'10" to 6'7".

Based on players, Lowell over Augie, easy. And I love James Augustine. Great Illini, great player. Lowell was better though. Lowell was a McDAA.
 
#1,031      
Second and Chalmers
Peoria Illini said:
The only reason that Augie would start over Lowell Hamilton, is his height. 6'10" to 6'7".

Based on players, Lowell over Augie, easy. And I love James Augustine. Great Illini, great player. Lowell was better though. Lowell was a McDAA.
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Hamilton: 1241 pts on .534 FG%, 493 reb, 65 ast, 87 blk, 63 stl in his Illini career. Undrafted, played 0 career NBA games

Augie: 1383 pts on .617 FG% (All-Time Illini Record), 1023 reb (All-Time Illini Record), 148 ast, 139 blk, 141 stl, 41st overall pick in the 2006 draft, 27 career NBA games.

Calling Hamilton the better player because he was a higher rated recruit reads like a parody of this board. Utter insanity.
 
#1,032      
sacraig
We've had some really dumb arguments on this site in the past, but these recent ones over athleticism might just set a new low in terms of IL discourse. Holy moly, can we just argue about something else already?
 
#1,033      
jmilt7
Isn't there supposed to be some kind of press conference (he asked, hoping to steer the conversation away from Augie vs Hamilton and athleticism debate)? Seriously though, I looked on the Illinois basketball page and couldn't find any mention of it. I think it was supposed to be at 3?
 
#1,034      
t7nich
jmilt7 said:
Isn't there supposed to be some kind of press conference (he asked, hoping to steer the conversation away from Augie vs Hamilton and athleticism debate)? Seriously though, I looked on the Illinois basketball page and couldn't find any mention of it. I think it was supposed to be at 3?
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Yea, press conf at Ubben at 2pm today. Whitman, Underwood, and Fahey
 
#1,035      
Peoria Illini
Second and Chalmers said:
Hamilton: 1241 pts on .534 FG%, 493 reb, 65 ast, 87 blk, 63 stl in his Illini career. Undrafted, played 0 career NBA games

Augie: 1383 pts on .617 FG% (All-Time Illini Record), 1023 reb (All-Time Illini Record), 148 ast, 139 blk, 141 stl, 41st overall pick in the 2006 draft, 27 career NBA games.

Calling Hamilton the better player because he was a higher rated recruit reads like a parody of this board. Utter insanity.
Click to expand...

To each his own. I know you are the final word on all that is Illini and basketball related on this board, so I probably am insane. My wife would probably agree with you.

Different game and the way they played it, called it, etc.

And calling someone the better college player because his game fared better in the pros is also misleading, when discussing who would have fit better for the Illini. Hamilton's stats were lower mainly because he was a 6'7" player asked to play center on a team that was stacked, (yes, even more so than the 05 team, I know... sacrilege!!!), in a league that was better in the 80s than it was in the 00's. I'm not sure how old folks are, but I'm old enough to have seen both of them play extensively, and Lowell was the better player.

Doesn't make Augie a bad player, he's a great Illini. But in that case, for that team, Lowell was the man I'd choose.
 
#1,036      
Second and Chalmers
Agree to disagree I guess. And the pro thing is relevant largely because it cuts against the "89 was a stronger talent environment" argument.

But this truly has nothing to do with the point of this thread, so let's drop it.
 
#1,037      
tpbradley
Second and Chalmers said:
Or maybe, I dunno, win a game?

When was the last time Illinois Basketball had a "hey, this team might actually be good!" sort of win? Not a desperation late season dead cat bounce, not a random upset, not mashing a cupcake, but a genuinely impressive optimism-inducing performance?

For my money it was November 28, 2014 when we beat Baylor in Vegas where we were just too tough and pugnacious for an extremely big and physical team. A great Ray Rice performance. That night was probably the peak of my Groce optimism. And was followed by our most recent appearance in the Top 25.

Of course, that proved to be the season where we just quit at the end of the year against Michigan in the BTT and Alabama in the NIT.

That's going on FOUR YEARS AGO. Just to find a game where you could feel a little bit of hope. That is why we are how we are. This fanbase has forgotten than winning is a thing.
Click to expand...

What are you trying to convince people to believe, and even if you get people to side with you, to what end? I'm not disagreeing with you, just trying to understand your point and the goal of your posts.
 
#1,038      
tpbradley
jcgoldie said:
Ed-Too-Tall-Jones-294x389.jpg
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Any eligibility left?
 
#1,041      
CoalCity
tpbradley said:
What are you trying to convince people to believe, and even if you get people to side with you, to what end? I'm not disagreeing with you, just trying to understand your point and the goal of your posts.
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He likes to type.
 
#1,043      
Second and Chalmers
tpbradley said:
What are you trying to convince people to believe, and even if you get people to side with you, to what end? I'm not disagreeing with you, just trying to understand your point and the goal of your posts.
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To sum it up I think the fact that the wholesale destruction of Illinois Basketball was so narratively tied into our high-profile failures with individual big time recruits that what's left of the fanbase has developed a savior complex by which the only path back to our former prominence is essentially to redeem those specific failures, to have highly recruited in-state guys step into the void left by the Shaun Livingston's and the Jon Scheyer's. Almost a religious narrative, that our faith during our time in the wilderness will be repaid by this specific sort of salvation.

And I just think it's total nonsense. The correlation between recruiting rankings and wins is so much looser than the narrative here suggests, especially within the part of the talent curve Illinois shops in, and we've underperformed our talent level every single season since 2009.

I believe that you become a consistently good program, in both football and basketball, by defining a style of play and a long-range plan to achieve it through recruiting to fit and coaching for skill development and execution and just building it brick-by-brick, practice-by-practice, game-by-game.

I think the rush to demolish the inherited rosters in both programs was horribly misguided and should be consciously avoided in the future, but I see one side of Kirby methodically reconstructing out of those ashes and I see the other side flailing around blindly.

But regardless, if we're ever getting back to respectability, it is going to happen in games, or really with games revealing what has actually happened in practice, with our players just developing and executing better and being better deployed and better schemed and just lifting themselves out of the fog of suckitude. It's not going to be the Basketball Gods taking pity on our plight and allocating us a better ration of Talent Units.

Want to move this program in the right direction? Go out and play better! Unfortunately, our roster as it stands is so horribly imbalanced it just doesn't look like it's gonna give us much of a chance.
 
#1,045      
afpharmdawg
RIVERCITYCHIEF said:
I never dumped on Augustine or Ebo. I just stated the truth from when they played. Ebo played to a role last year. Auggie played hard and smart and was good. Also, I am not getting into a debate on how athleticism is measured although I do have a Masters Phys Ed and Sports Admin. To say Auggie was the athlete Lowell was is just not true. I love the 04-05 team but as far as athletes it wasnt even close to the 89 team. Lowell out jumped that whole team and could run. I'm not sure other than maybe Dwill anyone on the 04-05 team could've started on the 89 team. It really diesnt matter if they play well together and I am excited about BU and it's good to see him bringing in shooters, passers, and ball handlers at all positions. If you dont see that. I'm not bashing anyone. I'm just seeing a change in things and given how it's been it's about time. Go 2018-19 Illini!
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Noone on the 05 team would've started on the 89 team. They were about 2-3 years old then. :D
 
#1,047      
EJ33
Peoria Illini said:
To each his own. I know you are the final word on all that is Illini and basketball related on this board, so I probably am insane. My wife would probably agree with you.

Different game and the way they played it, called it, etc.

And calling someone the better college player because his game fared better in the pros is also misleading, when discussing who would have fit better for the Illini. Hamilton's stats were lower mainly because he was a 6'7" player asked to play center on a team that was stacked, (yes, even more so than the 05 team, I know... sacrilege!!!), in a league that was better in the 80s than it was in the 00's. I'm not sure how old folks are, but I'm old enough to have seen both of them play extensively, and Lowell was the better player.

Doesn't make Augie a bad player, he's a great Illini. But in that case, for that team, Lowell was the man I'd choose.
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I was a student during the Flyin' Illini era and saw every game. I also watched Hamilton a few times in high school. At one time he was ranked the #1 high school player in the nation, but by his senior year in high school his stock had slipped. He had a good career and he was one of my favorite players, but he never lived up to his high school ranking.

I also watched almost all of Augustine's games.

If the debate here is who to take at the center position, I would take Augie and it's not even close. Just the opinion of a sort of old-timer with a clear bias for the Flyin' Illini. (I've always thought these Flyin' Illini vs. '04-05 debates were silly. The Flyin' Illini would easily take the '04-05 team in a 7 game series and it wouldn't be close.)
 
#1,048      
doowink
bdutts said:
If a meatball sandwich is a sandwich, then a hotdog is a sandwich.

:D
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Although I've never had one....I have heard there are sh*t sandwiches also....aka Illini athletics the past 5 years...:eek:
 
#1,049      
BWilson25
tpbradley said:
What are you trying to convince people to believe, and even if you get people to side with you, to what end? I'm not disagreeing with you, just trying to understand your point and the goal of your posts.
Click to expand...

Just scroll right by like I do...;)
 
#1,050      
TEYPAY
Second and Chalmers said:
Hamilton: 1241 pts on .534 FG%, 493 reb, 65 ast, 87 blk, 63 stl in his Illini career. Undrafted, played 0 career NBA games

Augie: 1383 pts on .617 FG% (All-Time Illini Record), 1023 reb (All-Time Illini Record), 148 ast, 139 blk, 141 stl, 41st overall pick in the 2006 draft, 27 career NBA games.

Calling Hamilton the better player because he was a higher rated recruit reads like a parody of this board. Utter insanity.
Click to expand...

Not agreeing or disagreeing with you but the # of NBA games someone plays really isn't a good measure to how good they were in college... Steve Alford played in less than 200 games in the NBA. Also -- very hard to compare eras -- who is to say that Augustine didn't play with any other good rebounders (not saying that -- using it as an example) and Hamilton did or who were the other scorers around them, etc. I do believe Hamilton might have been a better "fit" for a pressing team but Augie a better fit for the pick and roll is also true.

PS - sorry for the late reply.
 
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