Well, somebody has to be the “primo” prima donna!
Illini Basketball 2022-2023
- Status
I'm with you, way too many fans content to see the Illini play "Transfer Portal Roulette" every year. Being reliant on Senior Transfers and Freshmen that end up leaving just to make the first round is not an appealing direction yet appears where we're heading...
Shannon isn’t getting drafted …
There was a situation that happened … Unrelated to the concussion … Private internal matter and that’s really all I can say …
Frustrating season, felt like it could have been so much more. Not sure what alternative BU had given the cupboard was bare. Was a reasonable gamble to put this roster together just didn't come together as well as it could have.
Also agree that we should temper the BU bashing, last tournament appearance before BU was when????
I L L
Also agree that we should temper the BU bashing, last tournament appearance before BU was when????
I L L
Lol - I’m gonna have to ask TA and Brad for permission to share that whole story … Bits and pieces have come out but the whole story probably never will …
Did it involve some ice cubes and a 9 iron?
pruman91
- Paducah, Ky
Fletch catching a stray?
Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
This could go in the Arkansas Postgame thread, I suppose, but it's honestly more about the program as a whole. I have had a good night's sleep to think on things (always a good idea!), and one thing became crystal clear, at least to me - this season was so much more about the mental distress it caused the fans (and presumably the players and staff, as well) than it was about the actual result or what it necessarily means going forward. To start, let's all acknowledge we wish we had more success in March the last three years; however, the Loyola loss was the only unmitigated TRUE disappointment, and that happens to high seeds from time to time (#2 seed Arizona just yesterday). With that said, can we just appreciate the absolutely mind-blowing swing in fan experience our seasons have had before Selection Sunday?? For simplicity's sake, I am going to assume the 2020 team would have (easily) made the NCAA Tournament that year and will reasonably assume they get a #6 seed. I'm doing this for my own purposes, but even if you want to be a bit of a hater and ignore it ... the other stats speak for themselves:
Groce's Last Year to Underwood's Second Year
2017: 20-15 overall. 8-10 Big Ten. Finished NR. NIT Quarterfinals.
2018: 14-18 overall. 4-14 Big Ten. Finished NR. No postseason.
2019: 20-15 overall. 8-10 Big Ten. Finished NR. No postseason.
3-Year Total: 46-54 (.460) overall. 19-37 (.339) Big Ten. 0 seasons ranked. 0 NCAA Tournament appearances.
The Last Three Seasons Before 2022-23
2020: 21-10 overall. 13-7 Big Ten. Finished #21. NCAAT #6 seed (likely).
2021: 24-7 overall. 16-4 Big Ten. Finished #2. NCAAT #1 seed. BTT champions and a fluke rule thing away from Big Ten champions.
2022: 23-10 overall. 15-5 Big Ten. Finished #19. NCAAT #4 seed. Big Ten champions.
3-Year Total: 68-27 (.716) overall. 44-16 (.733) Big Ten. 3 seasons ranked (#21, #2, #19). 3 NCAAT appearances (#6 seed, #1 seed, #4 seed). 1.5 Big Ten championships. 1 BTT championship.
It's easy to see how we could start feeling a potentially irrational panic set in after failing to reach the Sweet Sixteen and losing all five starters ... we were all willing to sell our firstborn to fill those holes with transfers the caliber of TSJ and Mayer!
We had become regulars at a 5-star restaurant and everyone knew our name and liked us, and yet we had twice had an emergency come up where we had to leave before the main course ... and we were terrified that if it happened a third time the problem might be us.
So that brings us to this year:
2023: 20-13 (.606) overall. 11-9 (.550) Big Ten. Finished NR. NCAAT #9 seed.
You'll probably notice that this is slightly better than midway between our incredible recent run of regular season success and the depressing three years before that. This really isn't that crazy of a development for ANY program that loses five starters, but (1) we were used to winning again and it felt so good, (2) as I said before we were terrified of slipping back/losing our standing after all of this work and (3) we were kind of desperate to believe we were the type of program that might have transcended past rebuilding years. In summation, we felt we had too much talent on the floor to take too big of a step back, even if they were new, young, needed to work through chemistry, etc.
Well, we were wrong. I'm honestly happy TSJ and Mayer and Dainja came here - even if I'm the most harsh on Mayer and if I've insinuated his absence might be addition by subtraction. WE are upset about this year, but the pregame analysts said time and again how we lost five starters; I'd wager the casual college basketball fan just subconsciously made the following conclusion:
"Illinois has usually been good lately. This was a rebuilding year for them, and for Illinois that means making the NCAA Tournament as a #9 seed."
I'm not saying I was not really frustrated with this team (holy hell, I was!!), but can anyone here say they wouldn't gladly accept that statement in the abstract?! In the age of NIL and the portal, you never know what your team is going to look like, but it is NOT unfair to say we have a very talented returning core and that it's NOT too ambitious for us to assume team chemistry would at least improve somewhat going into next year. Honestly, I'm excited.
I'll end with this.
Let's say Trent and Co. move on at the end of last year, and we roll with the returning players and incoming freshmen we had (i.e., we don't pick up Mayer or TSJ). Our starting lineup by the end of the year is Epps, Rodgers, Melendez, Goode and Hawkins or something like that. We have an extremely up-and-down season with some big wins but some frustratingly close losses where we just can't play a complete 40 minutes, but we spend some time in the top 25, finish with a winning record in the Big Ten, win 20 games and make the NCAA Tournament as a #9 seed. We lose in the First Round in a way that has been characteristic of our season all year to a talented #8 seed that seems a lot like us. In the loss, some of our freshmen and returning guys like RJ and Goode really look to have found themselves. Almost everyone is set to return, plus/minus some transfers in/out that are probably best for both parties.
Are you not excited for next year in that scenario?! We thought adding two talented transfers could keep us at a Big Ten championship/top 20 team nationally/top 4 seed in the NCAAs level after losing five starters. The fact that this wasn't true REALLY only pertains to this specific season, if you ask me ... the future is plenty bright.
Groce's Last Year to Underwood's Second Year
2017: 20-15 overall. 8-10 Big Ten. Finished NR. NIT Quarterfinals.
2018: 14-18 overall. 4-14 Big Ten. Finished NR. No postseason.
2019: 20-15 overall. 8-10 Big Ten. Finished NR. No postseason.
3-Year Total: 46-54 (.460) overall. 19-37 (.339) Big Ten. 0 seasons ranked. 0 NCAA Tournament appearances.
The Last Three Seasons Before 2022-23
2020: 21-10 overall. 13-7 Big Ten. Finished #21. NCAAT #6 seed (likely).
2021: 24-7 overall. 16-4 Big Ten. Finished #2. NCAAT #1 seed. BTT champions and a fluke rule thing away from Big Ten champions.
2022: 23-10 overall. 15-5 Big Ten. Finished #19. NCAAT #4 seed. Big Ten champions.
3-Year Total: 68-27 (.716) overall. 44-16 (.733) Big Ten. 3 seasons ranked (#21, #2, #19). 3 NCAAT appearances (#6 seed, #1 seed, #4 seed). 1.5 Big Ten championships. 1 BTT championship.
It's easy to see how we could start feeling a potentially irrational panic set in after failing to reach the Sweet Sixteen and losing all five starters ... we were all willing to sell our firstborn to fill those holes with transfers the caliber of TSJ and Mayer!
We had become regulars at a 5-star restaurant and everyone knew our name and liked us, and yet we had twice had an emergency come up where we had to leave before the main course ... and we were terrified that if it happened a third time the problem might be us.So that brings us to this year:
2023: 20-13 (.606) overall. 11-9 (.550) Big Ten. Finished NR. NCAAT #9 seed.
You'll probably notice that this is slightly better than midway between our incredible recent run of regular season success and the depressing three years before that. This really isn't that crazy of a development for ANY program that loses five starters, but (1) we were used to winning again and it felt so good, (2) as I said before we were terrified of slipping back/losing our standing after all of this work and (3) we were kind of desperate to believe we were the type of program that might have transcended past rebuilding years. In summation, we felt we had too much talent on the floor to take too big of a step back, even if they were new, young, needed to work through chemistry, etc.
Well, we were wrong. I'm honestly happy TSJ and Mayer and Dainja came here - even if I'm the most harsh on Mayer and if I've insinuated his absence might be addition by subtraction. WE are upset about this year, but the pregame analysts said time and again how we lost five starters; I'd wager the casual college basketball fan just subconsciously made the following conclusion:
"Illinois has usually been good lately. This was a rebuilding year for them, and for Illinois that means making the NCAA Tournament as a #9 seed."
I'm not saying I was not really frustrated with this team (holy hell, I was!!), but can anyone here say they wouldn't gladly accept that statement in the abstract?! In the age of NIL and the portal, you never know what your team is going to look like, but it is NOT unfair to say we have a very talented returning core and that it's NOT too ambitious for us to assume team chemistry would at least improve somewhat going into next year. Honestly, I'm excited.
I'll end with this.
Let's say Trent and Co. move on at the end of last year, and we roll with the returning players and incoming freshmen we had (i.e., we don't pick up Mayer or TSJ). Our starting lineup by the end of the year is Epps, Rodgers, Melendez, Goode and Hawkins or something like that. We have an extremely up-and-down season with some big wins but some frustratingly close losses where we just can't play a complete 40 minutes, but we spend some time in the top 25, finish with a winning record in the Big Ten, win 20 games and make the NCAA Tournament as a #9 seed. We lose in the First Round in a way that has been characteristic of our season all year to a talented #8 seed that seems a lot like us. In the loss, some of our freshmen and returning guys like RJ and Goode really look to have found themselves. Almost everyone is set to return, plus/minus some transfers in/out that are probably best for both parties.
Are you not excited for next year in that scenario?! We thought adding two talented transfers could keep us at a Big Ten championship/top 20 team nationally/top 4 seed in the NCAAs level after losing five starters. The fact that this wasn't true REALLY only pertains to this specific season, if you ask me ... the future is plenty bright.
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Gotcha, I figured there was some kind of incident. I understand that you can't say. I appreciate the response!
I’ll give you til COB Monday
Ransom Stoddard
Ordained Dudeist Priest
- Bloomington, IL
What time zone?
As
As frustrating as his many turnovers were, I think a lot of his bad passes were a result of the other players not being in proper position. How many times did he make crazy cross court passes and how many times was it because no one else was near him to receive an easier pass?
Noblesville Illini
- Nappanee, IN
Time Zones? We’re all zoneless around here!
The challenge going forward is if you take only HS recruits and the occasional transfer, you're not likely to ever get "old" as a team, as you will have transfers out. And if you rely heavily on the portal, you never build the long term cohesion needed to succeed. Either path is a Pyrrhic victory we'd rather not endure. I don't have the answer, but I hope the guy making millions does.
We can call it whatever, if the 2022 recruiting class fizzles out to practically nothing just like the 2020 recruiting class fizzled out to practically nothing, it is officially a problem.
It did seem like something dramatically changed beyond the concussion. BU kept praising him but then he hardly played, even when supposedly completely available. Considering how well he was playing before it seemed unlikely to be just matchups.
It's a problem across the country ...
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
While this team had particularly bad vibes beyond just being a portal mishmash, what you describe is not just you and is a serious problem for the commercial viability of college sports, and probably basketball even more so than football.I understand that yearly transfers and the portal are the new norm in college basketball. However, I truly dislike it. I felt no personal connection with this team this year in large part because of the transfers and hired gun mentality. In the past, I enjoyed watching freshmen and the team grow as they progressed through the years. I am afraid that has irrevocably changed. Maybe I am just getting old and turning into a grumpy old man
NCAA revenue sports either finds some way to re-ground its sports in the tribalism and localism that is its lifeblood or it goes the way of boxing and horse racing. And at this stage I think the latter is far more likely and approaching a near-certainty.
Us, the posters here, we're lifers and will be cool grizzled New York boxing writer types with big cigars and fedoras who have a passion for this until we're dead. But new generations aren't coming to replace us.
Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
This is so depressing and so easy to see happening, lol. $hlt.
I know a good way to save it...promotion/relegation.
Ehh I dunno about that. As long as kids keep attending American colleges, there will always be a new lifeblood of fans, and those fans in turn pass their fandom down to younger generations, and then you also have the local populace in places that aren't in major metro areas that don't have NBA/NFL teams where the college program is still the biggest show in town... I think we're a long ways away from college sports dying.
Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
Yeah, of course they will stick around for reasons you said - the vast majority of alumni will always be fans (at least while on campus), and the populations in college town MSAs will almost always treat these teams as a native Chicagoan would treat the Bears (i.e., no "connection" needed, they're just fans!). What I do worry about, though, is losing people like my dad or me. My dad went to Northern Illinois, and I did not go to U of I due to living out of state at age 18, and we both are diehard Illini fans for absolutely no other reason than we are from Peoria, college sports are on TV/a lot of fun to watch and Peoria is in the state of Illinois. It's THOSE fans that make college sports such a huge industry ... what percent of Ohio State fans went there? Michigan? Penn State? Even Illinois?? And I think that's what Gritty is getting at - you will always have a group of diehard fans, and even some fans "without a connection" (i.e., neither alumni nor townies) will remain avid fans, as well; however, if recent trends continue for several years down the road, I do think you will start to lose a significant chunk of the fans that turn college sports into such a massive industry. And thus, it very well might become more niche, ala the examples he gave.
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