Illini Basketball 2023-2024

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#501      

cjw1901

C
cjw1901
iron said:
Purdue would be top half no doubt.

Their guard duo is top 3-4. Colvin is going to be good. Kaufmen Renn is solid
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You mean top 3, right?

Yeah, Loyer is very good, and will be harder to push around this year. Smith is still short at 6 foot and will probably still jumps up in the air too much with the ball. Edey will be a ton again. He can win them a big ten title almost by himself if he has huge games against MSU and IL. And Renn is a darn good sub. I'm surprised he didn't transfer, since Painter can't play them together. Thanks, I didn't know Colvin. Shoot! He looks big and good for a young guard. He won't start, but he'll be a great sub, like Renn. Heck, there 2nd five might be better than about half the team's starting lineups.
 
#502      

PepeSilvia

P
PepeSilvia
cjw1901 said:
You mean top 3, right?

Yeah, Loyer is very good, and will be harder to push around this year. Smith is still short at 6 foot and will probably still jumps up in the air too much with the ball. Edey will be a ton again. He can win them a big ten title almost by himself if he has huge games against MSU and IL. And Renn is a darn good sub. I'm surprised he didn't transfer, since Painter can't play them together. Thanks, I didn't know Colvin. Shoot! He looks big and good for a young guard. He won't start, but he'll be a great sub, like Renn. Heck, there 2nd five might be better than about half the team's starting lineups.
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I mean maybe but they're probably more middle of the pack than top 3 and that's really just because the Big10 looks fairly weak and has a ton of question marks. Smith is a pretty skilled player but he's simply too small and unathletic to guard anyone. Bigger, more athletic, and longer backcourts will continue to give them trouble as you saw in March.

MSU is 1 with Walker, Hoggard, and Akins plus Holloman and Fears.

Northwestern has Buie and Langborn which is likely better. Maryland has Young and if anyone steps up beside theyre likely a better backcourt.

Wisconsin has Hepburn and Essegian back plus Storr inbound and Essegian is an extremely similar player to Loyer. Then you have Iowa with Perkins and Sanford.

In a 1 on 1 matchup anyone Illinois throws out at guard will be a nightmare matchup for Purdue. Harmon and Shannon are simply too big and athletic and you can swap in Harris or Rodgers. Harris would absolutely shutdown Smith.

Then Nebraska has Kesei Tominaga who is the conference POY frontrunner so they're better too.
 
#503      

Fr8trn16

F
Fr8trn16
Combo said:
We do have lots of experience and lots of depth. Except at the most important position on the floor. It's like you have a football team with lots of talent across the roster, but you don't have a quality QB so you try to convert a TE to PG. There's a real good chance that you won't be a very good team.

I really like our team at four of the five spots. TSJ is one of the best players in the conference. I love the three portal guys we got. Hawkins, I think is overrated by some, but he's still a solid Big Ten starter. If somehow Ty and/or DGL is able to give us quality play at the PG spot, we could be a really good team. But realistically, I wouldn't predict that. And w/o solid PG play, the whole will be less than the sum of the parts.
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I really don't understand how people think that TY could be a better point guard than Sencire, who has handled the ball his entire career. Also, the narrative that Sencire has no offensive game is beyond me. The kid is a baller, and plays both sides aggressively! Put him on the floor! You'd be a fool not to give him plenty of playing time this year. And he can shoot. I've watched him shoot, and he shoots way better than people on here give him credit for. When your opportunities are very slim to take shots during the game due to other players getting the majority of opportunities, your numbers won't reflect as well, with a few misses percentage wise. But, given the volume of opportunities as others get, it would not be the same narrative about his shooting. We have a lot of players who can contribute, and my personal opinion is that the PG issues being raised on this board are valid, yet are being taken to extremes. We literally watched Coleman Hawkins bring the ball up the court plenty last season. Ty bring it up last season. Sencire and others who are no longer here. We'll be fine. If you don't agree with me that's cool too! The season will tell. I for one can't wait to watch and see! Sencire should be eating off the plate first in my opinion. No one else brought in should leap frog him at guard to me! You gotta earn it and I think he has. Show me different and then I'll agree. I will trust BU and staff though. Because they see everyday what we don't! I-L-L
 
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#504      

Fr8trn16

F
Fr8trn16
SkyysNotFalling said:
Sencire doesn’t have the handle, shot, or vision or change of pace to be a HM PG. Amazing point of attack defender, underrated help side shot blocker, athletic, quick as a Fox, team player… PG? No.
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I beg to differ! But time will tell and given the opportunity I'm positive he'd prove different.
 
#506      

john1952

john1952
john1952
Would a "big guard strategy" work for the Illini? Thoughts?

Right after our loss to Orlando in the ’95 playoffs, it struck me that we needed to reimagine the way we used our backcourt. In the midnineties most teams had small guards. It was dogma in the NBA that unless you could find another Magic Johnson, the smart strategy was to go small in the backcourt to keep pace with the quick, undersized point guards who dominated the league at the time. But I’d learned from watching Scottie Pippen play point guard that having a six-seven player with an extralong wingspan in that position created all kinds of fascinating possibilities.

What would happen, I wondered, if we had three tall, long-armed guards on the court at the same time? Not only would it create confusing mismatches for other teams, but it would also improve defense immeasurably because big guards could switch off and defend post players without resorting to double-teaming. It would also allow us to move away from using full-court pressure all the time, and with big guards, we could apply pressure more effectively inside the three- point line."
Phil Jackson Eleven Rings: The Soul of Success
 
#507      

Ga65

G
Ga65
Not sure where Sencire fits on this team but sure he will play. If you go back to last year’s threads, there was also a lot if not most people saying he wouldn’t get time. His quickness for his size is very rare as is his competitiveness. Just hope the staff figures out how the pieces go together because it is not obvious to me.
 
#508      

jayVA

J
jayVA
Fr8trn16 said:
I really don't understand how people think that TY could be a better point guard than Sencire, who has handled the ball his entire career. Also, the narrative that Sencire has no offensive game is beyond me. The kid is a baller, and plays both sides aggressively! Put him on the floor! You'd be a fool not to give him plenty of playing time this year. And he can shoot. I've watched him shoot, and he shoots way better than people on here give him credit for. When your opportunities are very slim to take shots during the game due to other players getting the majority of opportunities, your numbers won't reflect as well, with a few misses percentage wise. But, given the volume of opportunities as others get, it would not be the same narrative about his shooting. We have a lot of players who can contribute, and my personal opinion is that the PG issues being raised on this board are valid, yet are being taken to extremes. We literally watched Coleman Hawkins bring the ball up the court plenty last season. Ty bring it up last season. Sencire and others who are no longer here. We'll be fine. If you don't agree with me that's cool too! The season will tell. I for one can't wait to watch and see! Sencire should be eating off the plate first in my opinion. No one else brought in should leap frog him at guard to me! You gotta earn it and I think he has. Show me different and then I'll agree. I will trust BU and staff though. Because they see everyday what we don't! I-L-L
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That looks like DGL at the :40 mark.
 
#509      

Rap47

R
Rap47
cjw1901 said:
Yes, some games will be like this, but I'd feel pretty good trying to get the ball in to TSJ in that situation. He's really a good free throw shooter. He shot 79% last season to lead the team for players that played much. But if Terrence fouls out, others like Goode and Domask will have to step up.

And it will get weird, if Ty is shooting FT down at about 50 percent, which is possible. Rogers shot 39% last season, and Harris shot 20%, so both were a disaster at the line.
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Roger's shot 73% his senior year in high school. Give the kid a break.
 
#510      

HailtotheChief

H
HailtotheChief
Fr8trn16 said:
I really don't understand how people think that TY could be a better point guard than Sencire, who has handled the ball his entire career. Also, the narrative that Sencire has no offensive game is beyond me. The kid is a baller, and plays both sides aggressively! Put him on the floor! You'd be a fool not to give him plenty of playing time this year. And he can shoot. I've watched him shoot, and he shoots way better than people on here give him credit for. When your opportunities are very slim to take shots during the game due to other players getting the majority of opportunities, your numbers won't reflect as well, with a few misses percentage wise. But, given the volume of opportunities as others get, it would not be the same narrative about his shooting. We have a lot of players who can contribute, and my personal opinion is that the PG issues being raised on this board are valid, yet are being taken to extremes. We literally watched Coleman Hawkins bring the ball up the court plenty last season. Ty bring it up last season. Sencire and others who are no longer here. We'll be fine. If you don't agree with me that's cool too! The season will tell. I for one can't wait to watch and see! Sencire should be eating off the plate first in my opinion. No one else brought in should leap frog him at guard to me! You gotta earn it and I think he has. Show me different and then I'll agree. I will trust BU and staff though. Because they see everyday what we don't! I-L-L
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Sincere will be our 4th option at pg. He will likely play less. He will be behind Ty, DGL, and Harmon. This is the B10 its different that the mix tape. Sincere shot 18 percent from three in B10 play and he only took open shots which is a good thing. From the line he was 4 for 21. Those should only go up but how much is realistic. Another concern is assist vs TO. He had 29 assist and 21 turnovers. Next year he may play more 2 with all three guys leaving but I imagine we add at least one shooting 2 in the portal that starts i don't expect Ty or Harris primary position to be PG next season and ideally it wasn't the plan for this season. I hope DGL blows up .. Harris will play even less at the two being behind TSJ, Domask, & Harmon with TSJ playing over 30 minutes. I get why folks like his energy and D I do too but he isn't a B10 starting PG.
 
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#511      

PepeSilvia

P
PepeSilvia
Fr8trn16 said:
I really don't understand how people think that TY could be a better point guard than Sencire, who has handled the ball his entire career. Also, the narrative that Sencire has no offensive game is beyond me. The kid is a baller, and plays both sides aggressively! Put him on the floor! You'd be a fool not to give him plenty of playing time this year. And he can shoot. I've watched him shoot, and he shoots way better than people on here give him credit for. When your opportunities are very slim to take shots during the game due to other players getting the majority of opportunities, your numbers won't reflect as well, with a few misses percentage wise. But, given the volume of opportunities as others get, it would not be the same narrative about his shooting. We have a lot of players who can contribute, and my personal opinion is that the PG issues being raised on this board are valid, yet are being taken to extremes. We literally watched Coleman Hawkins bring the ball up the court plenty last season. Ty bring it up last season. Sencire and others who are no longer here. We'll be fine. If you don't agree with me that's cool too! The season will tell. I for one can't wait to watch and see! Sencire should be eating off the plate first in my opinion. No one else brought in should leap frog him at guard to me! You gotta earn it and I think he has. Show me different and then I'll agree. I will trust BU and staff though. Because they see everyday what we don't! I-L-L
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Harris an absurdly good athlete and I love the way he plays since he's tough and unafraid of contact. He is so so fast on the break where he basically just can outrun everyone.

However I didn't see him showcase any skills offensively last season. He struggled to handle the ball at this level and his shot looked broken. Going 4/20 from the line is almost incomprehensibly bad for a D1 guard.

Hopefully I'm wrong because if he can handle the ball and shoot then he's going to the NBA.
 
#512      

illini 67

I
illini 67
Fr8trn16 said:
I really don't understand how people think that TY could be a better point guard than Sencire, who has handled the ball his entire career. Also, the narrative that Sencire has no offensive game is beyond me. The kid is a baller, and plays both sides aggressively! Put him on the floor! You'd be a fool not to give him plenty of playing time this year. And he can shoot. I've watched him shoot, and he shoots way better than people on here give him credit for. When your opportunities are very slim to take shots during the game due to other players getting the majority of opportunities, your numbers won't reflect as well, with a few misses percentage wise. But, given the volume of opportunities as others get, it would not be the same narrative about his shooting. We have a lot of players who can contribute, and my personal opinion is that the PG issues being raised on this board are valid, yet are being taken to extremes. We literally watched Coleman Hawkins bring the ball up the court plenty last season. Ty bring it up last season. Sencire and others who are no longer here. We'll be fine. If you don't agree with me that's cool too! The season will tell. I for one can't wait to watch and see! Sencire should be eating off the plate first in my opinion. No one else brought in should leap frog him at guard to me! You gotta earn it and I think he has. Show me different and then I'll agree. I will trust BU and staff though. Because they see everyday what we don't! I-L-L
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Harris's high school highlight show a 20 ppg confident shooter and ball handler who could get to the rim and had a good jump shot.. Last year Harris was confident of D but was doing what he was told to do when on O, pass the ball don't make mistakes. He hesitated on taking the 3's he did take. He seemed afraid to miss or unsure if it was OK for him to even take the shot. He drove to the rim a couple of times and didn't finish. While in high school that was automatic or a Dunk. when he gets his confidence on O and is given touches as an option. I think he will surprise us. He was starting to signs of gaining some confidence and being more in the flow toward the end of last season.
 
#513      

grantlab

G
grantlab
PepeSilvia said:
MSU has played together way longer, has a ton of returning experience, and a talented group of young guys.

Plus they have 3 of the best guards in the conference. They are better than us on paper going in this year.
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I’d also argue Purdue has better guard play than us on paper with a backcourt that was more than serviceable all of last year growing up to become sophomores. We probably have the best “guard” on either team (TSJ) but they have a more proven 1-2 punch. Anyone who has Illinois higher than Purdue or MSU on paper is drinking too much of the orange and blue kool-aid. I’d expect Wisconsin, Maryland and Ohio State to all be solid too. Realistically we are upper-middle-pack heading into this season. Any CBB pundit would take under 26 wins right now.
 
#514      

HailtotheChief

H
HailtotheChief
illini 67 said:
Harris's high school highlight show a 20 ppg confident shooter and ball handler who could get to the rim and had a good jump shot.. Last year Harris was confident of D but was doing what he was told to do when on O, pass the ball don't make mistakes. He hesitated on taking the 3's he did take. He seemed afraid to miss or unsure if it was OK for him to even take the shot. He drove to the rim a couple of times and didn't finish. While in high school that was automatic or a Dunk. when he gets his confidence on O and is given touches as an option. I think he will surprise us. He was starting to signs of gaining some confidence and being more in the flow toward the end of last season.
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The issue is for thus season at the 1 & 2 we added some experienced guy that can shoot along with Ty at PG that are most likely ahead of him compared to last season. I expect that's shall decrease Harris's playing time. It is not that He isn't an option. It is just that other guys are ahead of him on the depth chart.
 
#515      

grantlab

G
grantlab
PepeSilvia said:
I mean maybe but they're probably more middle of the pack than top 3 and that's really just because the Big10 looks fairly weak and has a ton of question marks. Smith is a pretty skilled player but he's simply too small and unathletic to guard anyone. Bigger, more athletic, and longer backcourts will continue to give them trouble as you saw in March.

MSU is 1 with Walker, Hoggard, and Akins plus Holloman and Fears.

Northwestern has Buie and Langborn which is likely better. Maryland has Young and if anyone steps up beside theyre likely a better backcourt.

Wisconsin has Hepburn and Essegian back plus Storr inbound and Essegian is an extremely similar player to Loyer. Then you have Iowa with Perkins and Sanford.

In a 1 on 1 matchup anyone Illinois throws out at guard will be a nightmare matchup for Purdue. Harmon and Shannon are simply too big and athletic and you can swap in Harris or Rodgers. Harris would absolutely shutdown Smith.

Then Nebraska has Kesei Tominaga who is the conference POY frontrunner so they're better too.
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How quickly one NCAA Tournament loss clouds our perception of what was by far and away the best team in the Big Ten last year. They have the best player in the country returning from a team that won the regular season title by 3 games + the Big Ten Tournament title. I don’t know in what world Purdue is “probably more middle of the pack than top 3.” They are going to be the clear favorite to win again with MSU the only other team you could reasonably argue has a chance.
 
#520      

EyeoftheIllini

EyeoftheIllini
EyeoftheIllini
PepeSilvia said:
I mean maybe but they're probably more middle of the pack than top 3 and that's really just because the Big10 looks fairly weak and has a ton of question marks. Smith is a pretty skilled player but he's simply too small and unathletic to guard anyone. Bigger, more athletic, and longer backcourts will continue to give them trouble as you saw in March.

MSU is 1 with Walker, Hoggard, and Akins plus Holloman and Fears.

Northwestern has Buie and Langborn which is likely better. Maryland has Young and if anyone steps up beside theyre likely a better backcourt.

Wisconsin has Hepburn and Essegian back plus Storr inbound and Essegian is an extremely similar player to Loyer. Then you have Iowa with Perkins and Sanford.

In a 1 on 1 matchup anyone Illinois throws out at guard will be a nightmare matchup for Purdue. Harmon and Shannon are simply too big and athletic and you can swap in Harris or Rodgers. Harris would absolutely shutdown Smith.

Then Nebraska has Kesei Tominaga who is the conference POY frontrunner so they're better too.
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Of the four guys you mention in second to last paragraph, 3 of those guys were on the team for last year’s loss to Purdue. In that game Smith scored 15 — 5 over his season average and 2 more than that matchup nightmare TSJ. And Harris played 21 minutes, so I guess he didn’t spend much time on Smith.

I like our chances against Purdue, but doesn’t seem like your take is supported by the numbers.
 
#522      

1m4tr

1m4tr
Cliffmas
1m4tr
I seem to remember that Sencire got to the rim numerous times early in games and had trouble converting and then was either subbed out or stopped looking to drive. I thought his handle was decent enough to get to the rim where hopefully he’ll be more composed this year and have a softer touch.
 
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