Illini Basketball 2024-2025

More3s · Feb 1, 2025

LvilleILL1 said:
Regardless, we will 1000% prioritize elite athletes and shooters this offseason

regarding this point, it seems to me that this previous offseason we prioritized shooting over athleticism/defense/rebounding, and for next year I'm hoping we flip that priority and look for athleticism/defense/rebounding FIRST, and just make sure that a player's shooting is enough to be a threat.

We don't want any more complete non-shooters, but going all-in on putting 5 "elite" shooters on the floor as much as possible also doesn't seem to be a fool-proof formula. Hoping to get closer to a goldilocks just-right mix next year.

Oh, and I also hope that lateral athleticism is included in this calculation, especially if we're looking for someone to be a stretch 4. I think we got Booth and thought his vertical athleticism would be a huge plus, but he's just too slow and awkward laterally to be in position to take advantage of his vertical abilities.

(and it's certainly not lost on me that Coleman Hawkins is probably about the perfect prototype for this spot - enough of a shooting threat to be dangerous, very good defensively laterally and capable of guarding wings on the perimeter, and also strong enough and enough of a competitor to guard most centers in a pinch if you have no better options for whatever reason)

A slightly bigger Tre White would also work, I would think. (Or maybe even Tre White himself, if he can take a step in providing consistent rim pressure and get a little heavier/stronger?)

IlliniTime · Feb 1, 2025

Our current situation has me wondering if NIL could be the source of underperformance from certain players. If you get a guaranteed big paycheck for past performance, does that result in players who aren’t going to get NBA contracts feeling like they’ve made it, and they no longer need to put out the effort. Just take the money and enjoy college life before you invest your money and never have to work again.

OrangeKrush1981 · Feb 1, 2025

IlliniTime said:
Our current situation has me wondering if NIL could be the source of underperformance from certain players. If you get a guaranteed big paycheck for past performance, does that result in players who aren’t going to get NBA contracts feeling like they’ve made it, and they no longer need to put out the effort. Just take the money and enjoy college life before you invest your money and never have to work again.

I strongly suspect that NIL and other money used to attract guys to a program can be a source of weakness in the culture of a basketball program. It does not HAVE to be a problem, but it could be.

I am not so sure about the suggestion that young men take the money and then feel they can just coast. I think they would at that stage in life still compete hard. But money can be divisive -- how come he got 5x what I got and he can't make a shot! -- and I also think the much reduced residence time of a player on a team is a problem for building good team culture. I don't think money is the biggest reason to transfer (thereby reducing residence time); I think playing time is the biggest factor.

Grandpa · Feb 1, 2025

Is Booth getting NIL?

If so I would let him know that we have no NIL $ for him next season.

sacraig · Feb 1, 2025

blackdog said:
Sure but I would not be looking at Fears and saying he's no doubt upgrade over Boswell or that the team needs what Fears brings more than Boswell. I think we would actually lose out on that trade.

I think Boswell bring A LOT to this team when he plays within himself.

Lock down defender, good 3 pt shooter (look at career stats), capable of bully his way to the rim (finishing needs work), and a good distributor.

But lately he tried to get super cute with all of those and ends up being bad at them all. I don't know why. Desperation? Ego? Slept on the wrong side of the bed?

jacekpardol · Feb 1, 2025

sacraig said:
I think Boswell bring A LOT to this team when he plays within himself.

Lock down defender, good 3 pt shooter (look at career stats), capable of bully his way to the rim (finishing needs work), and a good distributor.

But lately he tried to get super cute with all of those and ends up being bad at them all. I don't know why. Desperation? Ego? Slept on the wrong side of the bed?

Bos

GP	MIN	FG%	3P%	FT%	REB	AST	BLK	STL	PF	TO	PTS
21	30.1	37.9	23.9	78.8	5.4	3.7	0.2	1.2	1.6	2.3	12.0

Fears(shift all stats to the left one editing issue)

MIN	FG%	3P%	FT%	REB	AST	BLK	STL	PF	TO	PTS
	28.6	45.7	27.1	82.9	3.9	4.3	0.1	1.8	1.8	3.6	15.9

sacraig · Feb 1, 2025

jacekpardol said:
Bos

GP MIN FG% 3P% FT% REB AST BLK STL PF TO PTS
21 30.1 37.9 23.9 78.8 5.4 3.7 0.2 1.2 1.6 2.3 12.0

Fears(shift all stats to the left one editing issue)

MIN FG% 3P% FT% REB AST BLK STL PF TO PTS
28.6 45.7 27.1 82.9 3.9 4.3 0.1 1.8 1.8 3.6 15.9

I wasn't even comparing players, but I guess you missed the part where I said "when he plays within himself?" Boswell has clearly had two very different halves of his season.

NarrowJ · Feb 1, 2025

mysterio2525 · Feb 1, 2025

NarrowJ said:
View attachment 39281

Humrichous is the new Alex legion

Frank · Feb 1, 2025

blackdog said:
Sure but I would not be looking at Fears and saying he's no doubt upgrade over Boswell or that the team needs what Fears brings more than Boswell. I think we would actually lose out on that trade.

I agree. Fears is a great player, no doubt about it, but I don't think we need another young freshman guard to add to our 3 freshman contributors. We have enough youth as-is. Not to mention we did the whole 2 freshmen guards thing once already and we all remember how that turned out.

Frank · Feb 1, 2025

jacekpardol said:
Bos

GP MIN FG% 3P% FT% REB AST BLK STL PF TO PTS
21 30.1 37.9 23.9 78.8 5.4 3.7 0.2 1.2 1.6 2.3 12.0

Fears(shift all stats to the left one editing issue)

MIN FG% 3P% FT% REB AST BLK STL PF TO PTS
28.6 45.7 27.1 82.9 3.9 4.3 0.1 1.8 1.8 3.6 15.9

And Bos is leaps and bounds above Fears as a defender, which is why his advanced metrics still have him (Bos) rating out as the better player.

More generally, I'm baffled that people on here think another freshman guard, even one that is talented and has had a great season, is the solution here.

SeattleSlim · Feb 1, 2025

Frank said:
And Bos is leaps and bounds above Fears as a defender, which is why his advanced metrics still have him (Bos) rating out as the better player.

More generally, I'm baffled that people on here think another freshman guard, even one that is talented and has had a great season, is the solution here.

Lately, many seem to think a sophomore guard is (part of) the solution.

Illini 993 · Feb 1, 2025

jacekpardol said:
Bos

GP MIN FG% 3P% FT% REB AST BLK STL PF TO PTS
21 30.1 37.9 23.9 78.8 5.4 3.7 0.2 1.2 1.6 2.3 12.0

Fears(shift all stats to the left one editing issue)

MIN FG% 3P% FT% REB AST BLK STL PF TO PTS
28.6 45.7 27.1 82.9 3.9 4.3 0.1 1.8 1.8 3.6 15.9

I think the Fears stats need shifted to the left. The 27% FT surprised me at first.

OrangeKrush1981 · Feb 1, 2025

Below is a roster that is interesting to compare to ours. Size, experience, 3-point shooting percentage.

Duke's roster, in order of minutes played this season:

Class	Name	Ht	Wt	PPG	3PT%	Minutes played
FR	Cooper Flagg	6'9	205	19.9	.33	633
FR	Kon Knueppel	6'7	217	13.1	.37	595
Jr	Tyrese Proctor	6'6	183	10.4	.39	586
Gr	Sion James	6'6	220	7.6	.37	465
FR	Khaman Maluach	7'2	250	8.3	.14	401

So	Caleb Foster	6'5	202	5.6	.30	341
Gr	Mason Gillis	6'6	225	4.9	.35	296
Jr	Maliq Brown	6'9	222	2.5	.17	272
FR	Patrick Evans	6'6	175	6.9	.45	206
FR	Patrick Ngnogba	6'11	250	2.7	0	120

Second place is 1st loser · Feb 1, 2025

This is a legitimate question, but seeing the constant attention on Ben..... who's been more disappointing the games since TI has been out, KJ or Ben?

I think that KJ, for what we need from him and given expectations, has been FAR more disappointing.

This is supposed to be a lottery pick and it's his turnovers, over and over and over....that continued to kill us. They would stop runs.

We expect Ben to make the three, hit the offensive glass and do reasonably well defending the post because outside of MJ.....we have literally no other post presence right now. He, like the rest of the roster, has been crap from behind the line.

KJ.....he's been almost unplayable at times. This has been his time to shine and he's given us very little and in some circumstances, he's hurt us.

I'm not seeing much in the way of him being called out and just wondering why?

FloridaMan · Feb 1, 2025

Second place is 1st loser said:
This is a legitimate question, but seeing the constant attention on Ben..... who's been more disappointing the games since TI has been out, KJ or Ben?

I think that KJ, for what we need from him and given expectations, has been FAR more disappointing.

This is supposed to be a lottery pick and it's his turnovers, over and over and over....that continued to kill us. They would stop runs.

We expect Ben to make the three, hit the offensive glass and do reasonably well defending the post because outside of MJ.....we have literally no other post presence right now. He, like the rest of the roster, has been crap from behind the line.

KJ.....he's been almost unplayable at times. This has been his time to shine and he's given us very little and in some circumstances, he's hurt us.

I'm not seeing much in the way of him being called out and just wondering why?

Can't disagree, but it's been a committee of disappointment. Tre W is a shadow of his earlier self where he had 5 or 6 games of solid, solid play. He's at least continuing to rebound. Boswell has been worse than KJ. Morez can't stay on the floor and when he does has stone for hands. Jake Davis misses wide open looks that any avg "sharpshooter" should be nailing. Booth......lol. The only player who has not disappointed is DGL. And he's getting 10-12 fewer minutes than he should. Hope everything I just mentioned changes, like, starting tomorrow.

bleedorange and blue · Feb 1, 2025

OrangeKrush1981 · Feb 1, 2025

Second place is 1st loser said:
... I think that KJ, for what we need from him and given expectations, has been FAR more disappointing.

This is supposed to be a lottery pick and it's his turnovers, over and over and over....that continued to kill us. They would stop runs.

I think you are right that KJ's turnovers deserve far more attention. For one thing, many of KJ's turnovers occur at the top of the key and these turn into fast break buckets for the other team. KJ isn't good at hustling back to try to stop those layups either.

I cannot understand why lackadaisacal turnovers continue to occur so often. I'd have the kid sit for a bit after every lazy turnover he commits. Not for aggressive turnovers, just for the lazy, dumb ones.

alaskaillini · Feb 1, 2025

I am not sure of the Ben hate - he has been inconsistent but is still shooting about 35% from 3 - he was 4-9 game before last from 3. He was the only one that came to play in the USC game - without Ben that would have been much worse if that is possible. It is easy to be down on him after a bad game. He was bad offensively in the Maryland and Nebby games, so I understand the recency bias, but this has also been when Tomi is out. I think he has been rushing his shot because with Tomi out, because he isn't getting open looks to the same degree as he would with Tomi in. Tomi's return will be huge for this team, and for Ben specifically.

And the idea of playing DGL instead of Ben seems problematic to me - DGL is 6'1" while Ben is 6'9". I understand the idea of positionless, but that isn't really apples and apples.

Emerson Bigguns · Feb 1, 2025

Illini 993 said:
I think the Fears stats need shifted to the left. The 27% FT surprised me at first.

I think 82 rebounds a game would be a record…

PleaseMakeABowlGame · Feb 1, 2025

Second place is 1st loser said:
This is a legitimate question, but seeing the constant attention on Ben..... who's been more disappointing the games since TI has been out, KJ or Ben?

I think that KJ, for what we need from him and given expectations, has been FAR more disappointing.

This is supposed to be a lottery pick and it's his turnovers, over and over and over....that continued to kill us. They would stop runs.

We expect Ben to make the three, hit the offensive glass and do reasonably well defending the post because outside of MJ.....we have literally no other post presence right now. He, like the rest of the roster, has been crap from behind the line.

KJ.....he's been almost unplayable at times. This has been his time to shine and he's given us very little and in some circumstances, he's hurt us.

I'm not seeing much in the way of him being called out and just wondering why?

No.

Second place is 1st loser · Feb 1, 2025

Last three(no Tomi)

18 Assists/16 Turnovers
16 of 39 from the field
4 of 19 from three

That's our lottery pick and the designated go to guy on our roster. That assist to turnover ratio would have most guys buried on the bench. The turnovers are of the excruciating variety too because they not only kill our runs, but they happen at the top of the circle and lead to run-outs.

We all have our opinion though. If you think that Ben's poor play has more to do with our issues than that....you have your reasons.

Snoopy · Feb 2, 2025

Fascinating article on the Athletic on advanced analytics for athleticism. Behind a paywall, but relevant to many of the player comps, Fletch helping or hurting, etc. discussions on this board. Looks at why athletes like Jokic and Mahomes are able to make outsized contributions in games while sporting mediocre, if not poor scores in the standard athleticism measures like verticals and dashes.
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/60...y-athletes-workout?source=user-shared-article

jacekpardol · Feb 2, 2025

alaskaillini said:
I am not sure of the Ben hate - he has been inconsistent but is still shooting about 35% from 3 - he was 4-9 game before last from 3. He was the only one that came to play in the USC game - without Ben that would have been much worse if that is possible. It is easy to be down on him after a bad game. He was bad offensively in the Maryland and Nebby games, so I understand the recency bias, but this has also been when Tomi is out. I think he has been rushing his shot because with Tomi out, because he isn't getting open looks to the same degree as he would with Tomi in. Tomi's return will be huge for this team, and for Ben specifically.

And the idea of playing DGL instead of Ben seems problematic to me - DGL is 6'1" while Ben is 6'9". I understand the idea of positionless, but that isn't really apples and apples.

Because Ben’s only job is to hit open 3pters and when he’s not doing that he’s useless. Look at his per 40 stats. They are painful.

Also look at his 2pt % and ft % also putrid. Our “sharp shooting sniper” that Brad leaves late in games to hit free throws is effectively hitting them at the same rate at Morez Johnson.

Brosky · Feb 2, 2025

These are the unis I love. No cursive.