Illini Basketball 2025-2026

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#376      
Good watch/listen for anyone with qualms re: Hamer or Tyler (around the 8 minute mark, maybe a bit after)


Summary:

With Hamer/Tyler as assistants UI has averaged over 25 wins per season
Hamer/Tyler are 26-14 in the B1G, 4-2 in the NCAA tournament
Offense has been ranked #3 and #14 in those seasons
Defense has had some question marks but is overall a top 5 (by metrics) defense in the B1G over the past 2 seasons
Brad has been offensively-focused with roster moves, so personnel continues to drive defensive scheme
Defensive scheme is what makes the most sense with the personnel

Don't shoot the messenger, these guys are paid to do this (certified ball-knowers)
Some of these points are valid, but we also have to realize these guys having any type of pushback on the staff is pretty much never going to happen. 99% of their credibility and inside info comes from the staff - they've said to it themselves.

The offense.... it's true players very clearly want to play in it, it attracts talent. Plus, statistically you've had the best offense in the league the last two years. The number of three-point balls that were bricked last year were frustrating, but a lot of it was very personnel based IMO.

I'm sorry I just can't double-down on that defense. It has not been good enough - doesn't fit the personnel, doesn't give us a good enough identity to win, has not been efficient. Maybe that too is personnel, but 2024 was the same exact deal, if not worse.
 
#377      
Last year, yes. Two years ago the primary core of the team was intact from the year before (less Domask). I think that is why it was so surprising that the team two years ago was so bad defensively...luckily the offense more than made up for it and carried the team to an E8. I expect the offense to be much better this coming year as well. If the defense steps up even marginally from this last season, then we should see better results.
QG & Harmon were also both new, making 3 of our top 7 in minutes, new. In hindsight it doesn't seem like that much, but at the time it seemed like a lot.
 
#378      
Ah, didn't know that. Thought that only four could go off campus.
 
#379      
Last year, yes. Two years ago the primary core of the team was intact from the year before (less Domask). I think that is why it was so surprising that the team two years ago was so bad defensively...luckily the offense more than made up for it and carried the team to an E8. I expect the offense to be much better this coming year as well. If the defense steps up even marginally from this last season, then we should see better results.
My memory was that year we started with switch all and that really bombed. Then we recovered back to no switching but the damage was already caused and it's hard to be good when you changed your defense scheme mid season. Overall, I feel like we were experimenting the defense a bit the last two years, which coincided with Hamer and the period of time we could play five out.
 
#381      
To be fair, people's complaints about current staff members are pretty much just what they get fed by one particular insider, so what people's complaints about this one will be hinges on that.
I disagree. Notwithstanding metrics saying we are top 40 on D, imo, per my eyeballs, nfw. Generally speaking, teams w decent O (except Oregon) blew up our D. And on O, sometimes our sets worked very well, but on many other occasions it didnt even look (to my untrained eye) that we even had sets. And how many times did many of us on here scratch our heads when we just started chucking 3's. But I am looking forward to next season!
 
#382      
Good watch/listen for anyone with qualms re: Hamer or Tyler (around the 8 minute mark, maybe a bit after)


Summary:

With Hamer/Tyler as assistants UI has averaged over 25 wins per season
Hamer/Tyler are 26-14 in the B1G, 4-2 in the NCAA tournament
Offense has been ranked #3 and #14 in those seasons
Defense has had some question marks but is overall a top 5 (by metrics) defense in the B1G over the past 2 seasons
Brad has been offensively-focused with roster moves, so personnel continues to drive defensive scheme
Defensive scheme is what makes the most sense with the personnel

Don't shoot the messenger, these guys are paid to do this (certified ball-knowers)
And we all know correlation equals causation. Who were the guys swiffering the floor during timeouts? Maybe they're the real reason for the success those years?
 
#383      
I'm speaking for myself, and likely others, about my dislike for Hamer. It's not just because an insider based in Indy likes to stoke the flames. There have been MULTIPLE times over the last 2 years where our "defense" was non-existent (UConn & Duke are best examples). If he is in charge of defense, why isn't he in the huddle trying to correct it mid-game? Why aren't adjustments being made? How many career nights have we given up the last 2 years? I've seen a whole lot of him sitting on the bench during timeouts. He never would have gotten a job like this anywhere else if it weren't for Tyler.
*No problem with Tyler...as the offense has been stellar*
 
#384      
And we all know correlation equals causation. Who were the guys swiffering the floor during timeouts? Maybe they're the real reason for the success those years?

Swiffering the floor versus running the offense and defense hmm 🤔
 
#385      
I disagree. Notwithstanding metrics saying we are top 40 on D, imo, per my eyeballs, nfw. Generally speaking, teams w decent O (except Oregon) blew up our D. And on O, sometimes our sets worked very well, but on many other occasions it didnt even look (to my untrained eye) that we even had sets. And how many times did many of us on here scratch our heads when we just started chucking 3's. But I am looking forward to next season!
There were definitely some games where our defense looked rough. But the value in advanced stats is, they account for tempo, opponent strength, and the entire season, not just the highs and lows that stick in our memory.

Take TCU last year, they had the 25th-best defense nationally (AdjDE of 96.3 via Torvik). Using that as a benchmark, here are games where our defense performed better than that (i.e., lower AdjDE):
  • Northwestern – 84.2
  • Wisconsin – 95.3
  • Tennessee – 89.1
  • Missouri – 87.3
  • Oregon – 94.3
  • Penn St – 66.6
  • Indiana – 82.4
  • Nebraska – 94.5
  • Iowa – 83.0
  • Xavier – 94.9
Not only are those strong defensive showings, but many came against top-tier offenses: Missouri (7th), Wisconsin (13th), Tennessee (18th), Iowa (19th), Xavier (38th), Oregon (42nd). So, it wasn't just beating up on weak teams.

Where the numbers do back up your eye test is that brutal 7-game stretch from Feb 2 (Ohio State) to Feb 22 (Duke). During that span, we averaged an AdjDE of 108.9, that would’ve ranked 230th nationally. Ugly.

But before that stretch, we were ranked 18th defensively on Torvik. And looking at just the remaining games after that stretch, we climbed back up to 14th.

So yeah, the defense definitely needs to improve (would love to see us crack the top 25 next year). But over the full body of work, last year's defense was decent, hence the #40 rank in Torvik.
 
#388      
No clue what the specific laws are in Ohio. Was he on his own property, did anyone report or observe him driving on a public roadway, Were his keys in the ignition, was the car running? There are obviously lots of unknown details in a case like this, I don't think you can just fire a guy without knowing more. A traffic stop 10 miles from home after being observed driving erratically, now that's a different story...
 
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#389      
I think Tomi could hedge just fine. I watched several other teams use it this year with slower centers get by with it. The key is staying in the passing lane as they get back.
You know it’s not just about tomi recovering, right? It’s somebody covering for him to recover, who then has to recover, and it becomes a chain (defensive rotation), that eventually is more likely to leave somebody open for a 3 than if you drop and give up a 2.

Our team is not built to scramble and long close out defensively.
 
#390      
There were definitely some games where our defense looked rough. But the value in advanced stats is, they account for tempo, opponent strength, and the entire season, not just the highs and lows that stick in our memory.

Take TCU last year, they had the 25th-best defense nationally (AdjDE of 96.3 via Torvik). Using that as a benchmark, here are games where our defense performed better than that (i.e., lower AdjDE):
  • Northwestern – 84.2
  • Wisconsin – 95.3
  • Tennessee – 89.1
  • Missouri – 87.3
  • Oregon – 94.3
  • Penn St – 66.6
  • Indiana – 82.4
  • Nebraska – 94.5
  • Iowa – 83.0
  • Xavier – 94.9
Not only are those strong defensive showings, but many came against top-tier offenses: Missouri (7th), Wisconsin (13th), Tennessee (18th), Iowa (19th), Xavier (38th), Oregon (42nd). So, it wasn't just beating up on weak teams.

Where the numbers do back up your eye test is that brutal 7-game stretch from Feb 2 (Ohio State) to Feb 22 (Duke). During that span, we averaged an AdjDE of 108.9, that would’ve ranked 230th nationally. Ugly.

But before that stretch, we were ranked 18th defensively on Torvik. And looking at just the remaining games after that stretch, we climbed back up to 14th.

So yeah, the defense definitely needs to improve (would love to see us crack the top 25 next year). But over the full body of work, last year's defense was decent, hence the #40 rank in Torvik.
And what is left unsaid was the state of the roster from mid Jan to early March - we were a team of walking wounded. Without digging, I’m betting that we had a different starting lineup at least every week . . .
 
#391      
And what is left unsaid was the state of the roster from mid Jan to early March - we were a team of walking wounded. Without digging, I’m betting that we had a different starting lineup at least every week . . .
Was there anything more to that (aside from Tre situation) other than just pure bad luck? Eyeball test on KJ pre and post injury aside from Indiana seemed stark.
 
#392      
Some of these points are valid, but we also have to realize these guys having any type of pushback on the staff is pretty much never going to happen. 99% of their credibility and inside info comes from the staff - they've said to it themselves.

The offense.... it's true players very clearly want to play in it, it attracts talent. Plus, statistically you've had the best offense in the league the last two years. The number of three-point balls that were bricked last year were frustrating, but a lot of it was very personnel based IMO.

I'm sorry I just can't double-down on that defense. It has not been good enough - doesn't fit the personnel, doesn't give us a good enough identity to win, has not been efficient. Maybe that too is personnel, but 2024 was the same exact deal, if not worse.

I think credibility works the opposite way lol - if there are things to criticize, they will and do - and Werner and Piper have been around a long time and you don't have to go very far to find them critical of various things. Their credibility has to do with what they report to their audience and the accuracy of it. But at any rate, they're actually pretty critical of the defense in the video you just watched, so the 'pushback on the staff' is already there in plain sight. So idk, was it just 'not critical enough' for you?

Your last paragraph was difficult to digest for me and you seemed to contradict yourself. Do you think the defensive scheme fits the personnel or no? If not, can you expand on why?
 
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#393      
It's OSU, are you really that surprised? They need to shove a Buckeye where the sun doesn't shine. Also, muck Fichigan! Drunk ramble over...
 
#395      
Was there anything more to that (aside from Tre situation) other than just pure bad luck? Eyeball test on KJ pre and post injury aside from Indiana seemed stark.
Tomi first out with mono, then out with ankle sprain and less effective due to illness, Morez' broken wrist, KJ injury followed by illness, DGL out with flu, Jake Davis flu, the entire team sick enough for the Wiscy game that the coaches decided not to do the handshake line, from Jan 1 to 21 Feb the team had exactly one practice with all team members were available. Kinda feels like Mission Impossible to put a winning team together, regardless of the talent or coaching.
 
#396      
Funny, I think if you asked this board I think we would give the Illini a B to C last year. I think B+. ESPN? A.

I think when you look at it how they are looking at it, it’s fair. We lost almost our entire roster and pretty much all of our scoring. It would have been totally fair to assume it would be a rebuild year for us, but instead we were competitive and one win away from a sweet 16.
 
#397      
For good or bad - which only time shall tell - I did not imagine back in February there would be so many comments vouching for Hamer's defense just three months later.
I think that once a rational mind removes themselves from the emotion of the season from game to game, then the end of the season low that comes with losing, things become more clear after reflection.

There was a focus on two guys during the season that were the object of ire when we lost, which isn't uncommon. .ost people in life want an answer to why things happen whether that be our jobs, our kids, a meal we prepare, whatever. We don't want to see the big picture because it can be uncomfortable and we want to feel like there's a quick fix. Change two guys and we'd win more games.

Again, removing ourselves three months....with clear vision, our problems far beyond Hamer defensively. Do I love our defensive philosophy? I can't say that I love it, but wasn't the reason that we'd let up the points we did.

Things like:

1)Live ball turnovers by our guards leading run outs and layups didn't help.

2)Long rebounds went both directions(good and bad) because those would lead to rebounds.

3) Let's just be honest with ourselves, our depth in the front court wasn't optimal and that was made by 1)having guys that couldn't play without fouling and 2)illness. We can all point at the games, especially the ones where we got absolutely curb stomped where we got absolute destroyed in the paint.

4)We had no paint presence. Tomi was about it and I wouldn't put him in the intimidating category.

5)I loved our guards offensively, but outside of Kylan, guys like KJ and Riley were swinging gates when it came to keeping guys from breaking us down. When that happens, the entire defense is corrupted. Guards are just so important, on both sides, in the defensive end. The teams that win big have great ones and the ones that don't ...don't.

6) Experience, by physically and mentally were as issue. Again, we go back to Boswell. He was pretty much our only player able to play in a game like Kentucky. I was six rows off the floor at the NCAA Tournament. One team definitely looked different than the other team. Kylan clearly belonged. Others did not, but they would have next year.

These weren't easy fixes, which people don't like. They want, fire Hamer, dump Ben and we win 5 more games. That's kinda silly if you step back and really think about it.

Brad is a really, really smart man and an incredible coach. He saw the issues and completely changed his roster to fit. Athletically, will this work? Not sure, but on paper, it looks better.

He's not going to fire coaches if he doesn't think it moves the needle. Ultimately, this is his program, his reputation and wins and losses define him. Nobody in the country knows who Hamer is. They know Brad and Brad got extended and looking at the contract.....he's locked and loaded to be here a LONG time. Josh feels the same way about everything.

I think that's what you're seeing unfold.
 
#398      
Looking back at the starting rosters, we used 8 different starting lineups over 19 games, kinda hard to get consistency that way . . .

1/2 vs OR, 1/5 vs WA, 1/14 vs Indinia, 1/19 vs Sparty
TW
KB
TI
KJ
BH

1/8 vs PSU, 1/11 vs USC
KB
TW
WR
TI
KJ

1/23 vs MD, 1/26 vs NW, 1/30 vs Nebby, 2/22 vs Puke
KJ
TW
BH
KB
MJ

2/2 vs tOSU
KJ
MJ
TI
DGL
TW

2/5 vs Rutgers
KB
KJ
MJ
DGL
TI

2/8 vs Minny, 2/11 vs UCLA, 2/15 vs Sparty
KJ
TI
BH
KB
MJ

2/18 vs Wiscy
KJ
KB
BH
TW
JD

2/25 vs Iowa, 3/2 vs ScUM, 3/7 vs Purdue
KJ
WR
KB
TI
TW
 
#399      
I think that once a rational mind removes themselves from the emotion of the season from game to game, then the end of the season low that comes with losing, things become more clear after reflection.

There was a focus on two guys during the season that were the object of ire when we lost, which isn't uncommon. .ost people in life want an answer to why things happen whether that be our jobs, our kids, a meal we prepare, whatever. We don't want to see the big picture because it can be uncomfortable and we want to feel like there's a quick fix. Change two guys and we'd win more games.

Again, removing ourselves three months....with clear vision, our problems far beyond Hamer defensively. Do I love our defensive philosophy? I can't say that I love it, but wasn't the reason that we'd let up the points we did.

Things like:

1)Live ball turnovers by our guards leading run outs and layups didn't help.

2)Long rebounds went both directions(good and bad) because those would lead to rebounds.

3) Let's just be honest with ourselves, our depth in the front court wasn't optimal and that was made by 1)having guys that couldn't play without fouling and 2)illness. We can all point at the games, especially the ones where we got absolutely curb stomped where we got absolute destroyed in the paint.

4)We had no paint presence. Tomi was about it and I wouldn't put him in the intimidating category.

5)I loved our guards offensively, but outside of Kylan, guys like KJ and Riley were swinging gates when it came to keeping guys from breaking us down. When that happens, the entire defense is corrupted. Guards are just so important, on both sides, in the defensive end. The teams that win big have great ones and the ones that don't ...don't.

6) Experience, by physically and mentally were as issue. Again, we go back to Boswell. He was pretty much our only player able to play in a game like Kentucky. I was six rows off the floor at the NCAA Tournament. One team definitely looked different than the other team. Kylan clearly belonged. Others did not, but they would have next year.

These weren't easy fixes, which people don't like. They want, fire Hamer, dump Ben and we win 5 more games. That's kinda silly if you step back and really think about it.

Brad is a really, really smart man and an incredible coach. He saw the issues and completely changed his roster to fit. Athletically, will this work? Not sure, but on paper, it looks better.

He's not going to fire coaches if he doesn't think it moves the needle. Ultimately, this is his program, his reputation and wins and losses define him. Nobody in the country knows who Hamer is. They know Brad and Brad got extended and looking at the contract.....he's locked and loaded to be here a LONG time. Josh feels the same way about everything.

I think that's what you're seeing unfold.

I also think there’s an element of mixing criticism with praise here and folks only seeing the former or latter depending on where their opinion lies.

In the video, there is both clear criticism (it’s constructive so maybe that doesn’t resonate as much with people idk) as well as praise for the overall results.
 
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