6'9" players that can't shoot are not going to get drafted.
Illini Basketball 2025-2026
- Status
I hear you. But, I think going 8-1 during pretty much any stretch of our schedule this season should be considered very acceptable. If you were to tell me you’d be upset at us sitting at 15-4 with wins over TT, Tennessee and Mizzou I would say you’re probably never going to be happy.
That being said, I agree that these are the stretches of games that very good programs take care of to build themselves a great looking record. 16-3 (8-1) going into Purdue would have us sniffing top 5 depending on how handily we won those games
blackdog
- Champaign
One of the best parts about Wagler is he is able to impact the game in a lot of ways beyond scoring so even if he has an off night shooting he is adding value. He's also mostly going to still score because he gets to the line and gets points off rebounds.
DICKnaggie
- Champaign
Or they get drafted later and end up in the g league, and then come back to college? I have no idea what's happening now, lol!
Big Jack
- Decatur
Recruiting for what, European players. Bring him back, hand him huge bag of cash. He'll actually play, get bigger, I believe best defender in country. After that, go top 3 and get on NBA court. Vs. DLeague team.
I have often wondered why St. Jude's in Memphis hasn't done something like the coaches vs cancer games to raise awareness and money for their cause....Had a relative that had a small child in St. Jude's (some rare heart disease) several years back....they were so impressed with the hospital and staff....very little money out of pocket during their weeks of treatments and stay there....they couldn't say enough good things about the place, ....I give every year to St. Jude's....but I would think with FedX and the University of Memphis along with St. Jude's they could put together and attract some really good teams that would create interest and raise a lot of $$$Every day gal, indeed!
View attachment 45934
They do the FedEx Golf tournament
OrangeBlue98
Iowa is not in a great spot right now (LvilleILL1)
- Des Moines, IA
Keaton Wagler was named “Most Surprising Freshman” in this article from Brendan Marks in The Athletic (subscription required).
www.nytimes.com
Men’s college basketball nonconference superlatives: Best, surprising and most disappointing
Let’s dish out some nonconference superlatives, to give proper credit (and criticism) where it's due.
www.nytimes.com
Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
RE: Some discussions lately, I want to reiterate that I sincerely believe the vast majority of Illini fans here want the same thing and genuinely support our program loyally. You have a few trolls who feed on negativity and you might have some who are "head-in-the-sand" types, but I would argue the vast majority of us just process the following things we can all agree on differently.
1. Illinois has a very good basketball history/tradition, and yet it is largely underrated and underappreciate by "outsiders." We have more Final Four appearances than Arizona, including a more recent one. We have the same number of Elite Eight appearances as Syracuse, including a much more recent one. We have more Big Ten championships AND BTT championships than Michigan. We have a higher all-time winning percentage than Indiana. We have more AP Poll appearances than several great programs, such as UConn, Michigan State and Villanova. And yet all of those programs consistently gain a lot more respect and prestige than Illinois for precisely ONE reason and one reason alone ... we have never cut down the nets.
2. Thus, the ultimate goal of this program - for well-founded reasons based on historical evidence of success across many decades, eras and coaching regimes - is for us to win a National Championship. We have had heart-breaking near misses, and it simply sucks we haven't made it to the mountain top. However, we have ALWAYS bounced back to the point where we are putting ourselves in a position to achieve that dream. You can argue what subjective metrics indicate that you are "putting yourself in a position to win a National Championship," but things like winning Big Ten championships, getting top 3 (and especially #1) seeds and making it to at least the Elite Eight are often EXCELLENT evidence of "doing the right things" to give yourself a chance. And from Henson to Kruger to Self to Weber to Underwood, each coach across FIVE decades in the modern era has been able to do those things here ... it's not hard to win at Illinois.
3. With that said, it's a LONG-term goal ... you can't expect a National Championship ever year. So, we must find the right mix of patience while never losing sight of the fact that it IS a reasonable goal for us to eventually win it all. Just since 2000, we have had four teams that could at least reasonably dream of getting us our first title - 2021 (#1 seed and made it to the Elite Eight), 2005 (needs no explanation), 2021 (#1 seed path that unfortunately didn't work out) and 2024 (top 3 seed that made the Elite Eight) ... who knows, after this year it might be five! The point is, though, that while we certainly can't go into every season expecting this elite team that is a National Championship contender ... over a longer period of time like 25 years, we should look back and think we were successfully crafting teams every several years that could at least have a shot.
So, I think where we all diverge on how to express our fandom is point #3. I would contend both fans who (A) simply enjoy the ride and don't get too worked up about the program's all-time pedigree or (B) let their desire for a National Title lead to an unreasonable sense of urgency for every individual season and thus are unreasonably negative are BOTH misguided. Lol ... of course I think my middle opinion is the "reasonable one," but hear me out!
I certainly think it's more than possible to enjoy a season like 2022, where we pretty much all know we aren't competing for a Final Four but we love the team and are thankful for what they gave us, mainly a Big Ten championship. However, that doesn't mean it should be our perspective every year, either. It's also possible to see a team like last year and realize it's just not in the cards and try to watch guys like Will Riley while we can and hope for the best in March. But what's causing a lot of animosity here right now, at least IMO, is that this year is not like those years.
This team DOES seem like it could have the potential to go deep in March ... and if you are in the Elite Eight or obviously even further, anything can happen ... and you can start to dream big about that ultimate goal. So if fans think there is any "unforced error" that is cutting this team's potential - whether that is an offensive scheme that doesn't match our personnel or an unreasonably subpar defense that could cost us game or some assistant who Brad is too loyal to or ANY of that ... it doesn't matter - they are going to get even more upset than in a normal year. Because this team CAN be special, and we all desperately want it to be ... some will just get understandably emotional and frustrated if it at all seems like we're wasting an opportunity. We waited 4 seasons after 2001 to "get another shot," we waited over 15 years after 2005 due to a decade in the wilderness and we waited 3 years after 2021. Who knows when we'll have a squad like this again? It's special ... and it's a tricky thing for fans to both appreciate that and soak in the moment but also not feel a sort of tenseness about this possibly being a golden opportunity.
Go Illini!
1. Illinois has a very good basketball history/tradition, and yet it is largely underrated and underappreciate by "outsiders." We have more Final Four appearances than Arizona, including a more recent one. We have the same number of Elite Eight appearances as Syracuse, including a much more recent one. We have more Big Ten championships AND BTT championships than Michigan. We have a higher all-time winning percentage than Indiana. We have more AP Poll appearances than several great programs, such as UConn, Michigan State and Villanova. And yet all of those programs consistently gain a lot more respect and prestige than Illinois for precisely ONE reason and one reason alone ... we have never cut down the nets.
2. Thus, the ultimate goal of this program - for well-founded reasons based on historical evidence of success across many decades, eras and coaching regimes - is for us to win a National Championship. We have had heart-breaking near misses, and it simply sucks we haven't made it to the mountain top. However, we have ALWAYS bounced back to the point where we are putting ourselves in a position to achieve that dream. You can argue what subjective metrics indicate that you are "putting yourself in a position to win a National Championship," but things like winning Big Ten championships, getting top 3 (and especially #1) seeds and making it to at least the Elite Eight are often EXCELLENT evidence of "doing the right things" to give yourself a chance. And from Henson to Kruger to Self to Weber to Underwood, each coach across FIVE decades in the modern era has been able to do those things here ... it's not hard to win at Illinois.
3. With that said, it's a LONG-term goal ... you can't expect a National Championship ever year. So, we must find the right mix of patience while never losing sight of the fact that it IS a reasonable goal for us to eventually win it all. Just since 2000, we have had four teams that could at least reasonably dream of getting us our first title - 2021 (#1 seed and made it to the Elite Eight), 2005 (needs no explanation), 2021 (#1 seed path that unfortunately didn't work out) and 2024 (top 3 seed that made the Elite Eight) ... who knows, after this year it might be five! The point is, though, that while we certainly can't go into every season expecting this elite team that is a National Championship contender ... over a longer period of time like 25 years, we should look back and think we were successfully crafting teams every several years that could at least have a shot.
So, I think where we all diverge on how to express our fandom is point #3. I would contend both fans who (A) simply enjoy the ride and don't get too worked up about the program's all-time pedigree or (B) let their desire for a National Title lead to an unreasonable sense of urgency for every individual season and thus are unreasonably negative are BOTH misguided. Lol ... of course I think my middle opinion is the "reasonable one," but hear me out!
I certainly think it's more than possible to enjoy a season like 2022, where we pretty much all know we aren't competing for a Final Four but we love the team and are thankful for what they gave us, mainly a Big Ten championship. However, that doesn't mean it should be our perspective every year, either. It's also possible to see a team like last year and realize it's just not in the cards and try to watch guys like Will Riley while we can and hope for the best in March. But what's causing a lot of animosity here right now, at least IMO, is that this year is not like those years.This team DOES seem like it could have the potential to go deep in March ... and if you are in the Elite Eight or obviously even further, anything can happen ... and you can start to dream big about that ultimate goal. So if fans think there is any "unforced error" that is cutting this team's potential - whether that is an offensive scheme that doesn't match our personnel or an unreasonably subpar defense that could cost us game or some assistant who Brad is too loyal to or ANY of that ... it doesn't matter - they are going to get even more upset than in a normal year. Because this team CAN be special, and we all desperately want it to be ... some will just get understandably emotional and frustrated if it at all seems like we're wasting an opportunity. We waited 4 seasons after 2001 to "get another shot," we waited over 15 years after 2005 due to a decade in the wilderness and we waited 3 years after 2021. Who knows when we'll have a squad like this again? It's special ... and it's a tricky thing for fans to both appreciate that and soak in the moment but also not feel a sort of tenseness about this possibly being a golden opportunity.
Go Illini!
RE: Some discussions lately, I want to reiterate that I sincerely believe the vast majority of Illini fans here want the same thing and genuinely support our program loyally. You have a few trolls who feed on negativity and you might have some who are "head-in-the-sand" types, but I would argue the vast majority of us just process the following things we can all agree on differently.
1. Illinois has a very good basketball history/tradition, and yet it is largely underrated and underappreciate by "outsiders." We have more Final Four appearances than Arizona, including a more recent one. We have the same number of Elite Eight appearances as Syracuse, including a much more recent one. We have more Big Ten championships AND BTT championships than Michigan. We have a higher all-time winning percentage than Indiana. We have more AP Poll appearances than several great programs, such as UConn, Michigan State and Villanova. And yet all of those programs consistently gain a lot more respect and prestige than Illinois for precisely ONE reason and one reason alone ... we have never cut down the nets.
2. Thus, the ultimate goal of this program - for well-founded reasons based on historical evidence of success across many decades, eras and coaching regimes - is for us to win a National Championship. We have had heart-breaking near misses, and it simply sucks we haven't made it to the mountain top. However, we have ALWAYS bounced back to the point where we are putting ourselves in a position to achieve that dream. You can argue what subjective metrics indicate that you are "putting yourself in a position to win a National Championship," but things like winning Big Ten championships, getting top 3 (and especially #1) seeds and making it to at least the Elite Eight are often EXCELLENT evidence of "doing the right things" to give yourself a chance. And from Henson to Kruger to Self to Weber to Underwood, each coach across FIVE decades in the modern era has been able to do those things here ... it's not hard to win at Illinois.
3. With that said, it's a LONG-term goal ... you can't expect a National Championship ever year. So, we must find the right mix of patience while never losing sight of the fact that it IS a reasonable goal for us to eventually win it all. Just since 2000, we have had four teams that could at least reasonably dream of getting us our first title - 2021 (#1 seed and made it to the Elite Eight), 2005 (needs no explanation), 2021 (#1 seed path that unfortunately didn't work out) and 2024 (top 3 seed that made the Elite Eight) ... who knows, after this year it might be five! The point is, though, that while we certainly can't go into every season expecting this elite team that is a National Championship contender ... over a longer period of time like 25 years, we should look back and think we were successfully crafting teams every several years that could at least have a shot.
So, I think where we all diverge on how to express our fandom is point #3. I would contend both fans who (A) simply enjoy the ride and don't get too worked up about the program's all-time pedigree or (B) let their desire for a National Title lead to an unreasonable sense of urgency for every individual season and thus are unreasonably negative are BOTH misguided. Lol ... of course I think my middle opinion is the "reasonable one," but hear me out!
This team DOES seem like it could have the potential to go deep in March ... and if you are in the Elite Eight or obviously even further, anything can happen ... and you can start to dream big about that ultimate goal. So if fans think there is any "unforced error" that is cutting this team's potential - whether that is an offensive scheme that doesn't match our personnel or an unreasonably subpar defense that could cost us game or some assistant who Brad is too loyal to or ANY of that ... it doesn't matter - they are going to get even more upset than in a normal year. Because this team CAN be special, and we all desperately want it to be ... some will just get understandably emotional and frustrated if it at all seems like we're wasting an opportunity. We waited 4 seasons after 2001 to "get another shot," we waited over 15 years after 2005 due to a decade in the wilderness and we waited 3 years after 2021. Who knows when we'll have a squad like this again? It's special ... and it's a tricky thing for fans to both appreciate that and soak in the moment but also not feel a sort of tenseness about this possibly being a golden opportunity.
Go Illini!
In #2, you’ve forgotten John Groce exists. Of our last 6 coaches, 2 have left on their own after very brief stays and 3 have been fired/pushed out due to poor performance.
But, outside of that, I don’t really recall the overwhelming majority of negative posts having a general theme of “this is a potentially great team!” but rather more so the “this team has shortcomings that are unfixable” as we sat here for 9 days prior to the Missouri game with a team still ranked in the top 12 of both NET/KP/whatever.
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Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
On a lighter, I am imploring all Illini fans who have the time and the means to travel to Iowa City for our January 11 game vs. Iowa! The Hawkeyes are currently #25, and they have UMass Lowell and UCLA at home before a trip to Minnesota ... our game against them is shaping up to be an absolutely awesome, nationally televised rivalry game on FOX, possibly the first top 25 matchup in the rivalry in 4 years! Here's why anyone on the fence should consider pulling the trigger and attending:
1. While an aesthetically "meh" arena in many ways, I will say that Carver-Hawkeye Arena (CHA) is a surprisingly awesome place to watch a game. As someone who has been there more times than I can count, including for a ton of games vs. Illinois, there really is not a bad seat in the house. The flat roof and completely in-the-ground arena allows it to be a lot louder than it ever should given the usual fan support they can muster.
2. There are still a decent number of tickets available at very reasonable prices. While most of the prime seats are sold out, you can sit in a corner section for $35 per ticket ... not bad at all. I really wish this game were on a Saturday so more Illini fans could make the trip, but a Sunday is the next best thing! There is still a possibility it could be an early game (time is TBD but either 11:00 am or 3:30 pm), which could allow fans to rather easily drive back home after the game.
3. This rivalry needs to regain some steam, and I hope both fan bases treat this like a huge deal, given it is our only meeting. The decline since its height in 2021 and 2022 has been unfortunate, but I think Iowa got a great coach and the rivalry will be back in full swing soon. Never count your eggs before they're hatched, but Illinois and Iowa will be favored in every game between now and January 11 ... if the results are chalk, you will get a (13-2) Iowa team that has won 5 straight and is likely ranked in the top 20 hosting a (12-3) Illini team that has won 4 straight and is likely ranked in the top 15. This will be a very big game for both teams no matter what, but it has the potential to be an absolutely huge one.
4. The boys need our support, and Illini fans have an excellent and hilarious history of flooding CHA with orange ... and I promise you, it makes Iowa fans absolutely irate. I have attended Iowa/Illini games at CHA on and off from 2003 (first game as a fifth grade Illini fan living in hostile territory!) to 2024, and there have only been a couple years with a bad Illini fan showing. The local papers have actually routinely reported on the estimated number of Illini fans, and it has varied from a respectable 1,000 or so in years like 2008 and 2023, to very noticeable and loud estimates of closer to 2,000 or 3,000 in years like 2006, 2011 and 2024, to absolutely wild showings of over 6,000 orange-clad fans plus the Orange Krush in 2005 ... the last one is still one of my core sports memories, and it KILLS me that this game cannot be found on YouTube.
TL;DR
If you can make it, help paint Carver-Hawkeye Arena orange on Sunday, January 11. It's going to be a huge game, and it will be worth your trip ... it's always fun to invade that place!
1. While an aesthetically "meh" arena in many ways, I will say that Carver-Hawkeye Arena (CHA) is a surprisingly awesome place to watch a game. As someone who has been there more times than I can count, including for a ton of games vs. Illinois, there really is not a bad seat in the house. The flat roof and completely in-the-ground arena allows it to be a lot louder than it ever should given the usual fan support they can muster.
2. There are still a decent number of tickets available at very reasonable prices. While most of the prime seats are sold out, you can sit in a corner section for $35 per ticket ... not bad at all. I really wish this game were on a Saturday so more Illini fans could make the trip, but a Sunday is the next best thing! There is still a possibility it could be an early game (time is TBD but either 11:00 am or 3:30 pm), which could allow fans to rather easily drive back home after the game.
3. This rivalry needs to regain some steam, and I hope both fan bases treat this like a huge deal, given it is our only meeting. The decline since its height in 2021 and 2022 has been unfortunate, but I think Iowa got a great coach and the rivalry will be back in full swing soon. Never count your eggs before they're hatched, but Illinois and Iowa will be favored in every game between now and January 11 ... if the results are chalk, you will get a (13-2) Iowa team that has won 5 straight and is likely ranked in the top 20 hosting a (12-3) Illini team that has won 4 straight and is likely ranked in the top 15. This will be a very big game for both teams no matter what, but it has the potential to be an absolutely huge one.
4. The boys need our support, and Illini fans have an excellent and hilarious history of flooding CHA with orange ... and I promise you, it makes Iowa fans absolutely irate. I have attended Iowa/Illini games at CHA on and off from 2003 (first game as a fifth grade Illini fan living in hostile territory!) to 2024, and there have only been a couple years with a bad Illini fan showing. The local papers have actually routinely reported on the estimated number of Illini fans, and it has varied from a respectable 1,000 or so in years like 2008 and 2023, to very noticeable and loud estimates of closer to 2,000 or 3,000 in years like 2006, 2011 and 2024, to absolutely wild showings of over 6,000 orange-clad fans plus the Orange Krush in 2005 ... the last one is still one of my core sports memories, and it KILLS me that this game cannot be found on YouTube.
TL;DR
If you can make it, help paint Carver-Hawkeye Arena orange on Sunday, January 11. It's going to be a huge game, and it will be worth your trip ... it's always fun to invade that place!
Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
I didn't forget John Groce existed. He (while a very nice guy, it seems) was a very mediocre coach hired by a horrible AD. In the modern era, it's abundantly clear that John Groce basketball is the exception and not the rule for Illinois. We were a top 15 program before the late Weber/Groce years, and we bounced right back to being that as soon as Underwood could rebuild.
As for your second point, I guess agree to disagree, though I haven't read through dozens of posts. I mostly remember frustration about things like structuring our offense around shooting too many threes when we aren't consistently good at them or frustration about not being passably good on defense. It might have been expressed in negative ways, but I certainly don't recall people arguing that we didn't have the talent necessary to win ... which is my point, people know we have the tools this year, and they're going to be frustrated if folks accuse them of having no right to be upset with not reaching our potential. I'm not even defending it, I'm saying it's understandable.
I just thought you forgot, because surely you wouldn’t conveniently just leave out his tenure to make your point.
Now that we’re talking about talent level rather than your original point based around overall potential, I agree that changes the discussion quite a bit, and is more along the lines of what I’d noticed the general argument to be at the time (so much talent, but yet with unrepairable qualities that severely stunt the ceiling/potential: athleticism & defensive ability).
Edit: if the prevailing sentiment is “we’re on the cusp and that’s frustrating” then that doesn’t (to me, at least) align with needing to overhaul things.
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I will be there with on the 11th with the family. I think we are sitting a few rows behind the student section. First time for my daughter to watch the Illini play outside of SFC.On a lighter, I am imploring all Illini fans who have the time and the means to travel to Iowa City for our January 11 game vs. Iowa! The Hawkeyes are currently #25, and they have UMass Lowell and UCLA at home before a trip to Minnesota ... our game against them is shaping up to be an absolutely awesome, nationally televised rivalry game on FOX, possibly the first top 25 matchup in the rivalry in 4 years! Here's why anyone on the fence should consider pulling the trigger and attending:
1. While an aesthetically "meh" arena in many ways, I will say that Carver-Hawkeye Arena (CHA) is a surprisingly awesome place to watch a game. As someone who has been there more times than I can count, including for a ton of games vs. Illinois, there really is not a bad seat in the house. The flat roof and completely in-the-ground arena allows it to be a lot louder than it ever should given the usual fan support they can muster.
2. There are still a decent number of tickets available at very reasonable prices. While most of the prime seats are sold out, you can sit in a corner section for $35 per ticket ... not bad at all. I really wish this game were on a Saturday so more Illini fans could make the trip, but a Sunday is the next best thing! There is still a possibility it could be an early game (time is TBD but either 11:00 am or 3:30 pm), which could allow fans to rather easily drive back home after the game.
3. This rivalry needs to regain some steam, and I hope both fan bases treat this like a huge deal, given it is our only meeting. The decline since its height in 2021 and 2022 has been unfortunate, but I think Iowa got a great coach and the rivalry will be back in full swing soon. Never count your eggs before they're hatched, but Illinois and Iowa will be favored in every game between now and January 11 ... if the results are chalk, you will get a (13-2) Iowa team that has won 5 straight and is likely ranked in the top 20 hosting a (12-3) Illini team that has won 4 straight and is likely ranked in the top 15. This will be a very big game for both teams no matter what, but it has the potential to be an absolutely huge one.
4. The boys need our support, and Illini fans have an excellent and hilarious history of flooding CHA with orange ... and I promise you, it makes Iowa fans absolutely irate. I have attended Iowa/Illini games at CHA on and off from 2003 (first game as a fifth grade Illini fan living in hostile territory!) to 2024, and there have only been a couple years with a bad Illini fan showing. The local papers have actually routinely reported on the estimated number of Illini fans, and it has varied from a respectable 1,000 or so in years like 2008 and 2023, to very noticeable and loud estimates of closer to 2,000 or 3,000 in years like 2006, 2011 and 2024, to absolutely wild showings of over 6,000 orange-clad fans plus the Orange Krush in 2005 ... the last one is still one of my core sports memories, and it KILLS me that this game cannot be found on YouTube.
TL;DR
If you can make it, help paint Carver-Hawkeye Arena orange on Sunday, January 11. It's going to be a huge game, and it will be worth your trip ... it's always fun to invade that place!
OrangeBlue98
Iowa is not in a great spot right now (LvilleILL1)
- Des Moines, IA
Definitely thinking about making the trip from
Des Moines. Will make a final decision this weekend.
Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
I mean, it's not "convenient" or cherry-picking to not mention Groce when trying to make the point that Illinois is an easy place to win where most competent coaches can succeed. A lone exception in the modern era doesn't disprove a point. If I was trying to make a point that it is obvious that several coaches have found a way to succeed at North Carolina, I wouldn't mention Matt Doherty but that it would in no way validate the point, haha.
As for your next point, we are just talking past each other. I have never defended calling for Underwood's head based off of this season, which I interpret to be your "overhaul things" comment. If I wanted to argue that it was reasonable for fans to want a new regime based off of this season, I would have said that. There have been legitimate reasons to criticize this year, and that doesn't make the fans who do so unreasonably negative because we still have a good KenPom ranking. This team should be a top 3 seed based off of the potential we have ... that's hardly a hot take. If we mess around with inconsistency like last year, that will not happen ... and fans have had good reason to worry at times this year about that, even if the following game helps to assure them.
I also stated the fact that out of our last 6 coaches, 2 left quickly and 3 were fired/pushed out due to poor performance. I also have no dog in that fight, I don’t care if we think it’s easy or hard to win at Illinois. And that opinion overall matters a lot less now with NIL, because our talent will likely match the money we put into it over the long haul. I merely pointed out you left out a coach in your original post, the reason he was left out is not deeply compelling to me.
The second part is interesting to me, though I don’t need to reiterate there, so we’re good.
- Status