Illini Basketball 2025-2026

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#326      
I think Underwood is a really good coach and generally very cutting edge with the portal/NIL world. I don't know who we could realistically replace him with that I think would be a no doubt upgrade. He's not top tier, but he's in the next tier down.

He's raised the floor so immensely, that I think he has a very long time before his seat will get warm. He'd have to miss the tournament entirely.

I still think he flounders in big games when all possessions matter. Most notably, and the most unforgivable loss, is to Loyola in the second round.

Regardless, I remember the desert we wandered for a decade just hoping we'd get in the tournament. Underwood has brought us back to relevance and I'm willing to give up some ceiling knowing the floor is high. I'm sure he will continue to do things that make me lose my mind, but I feel like there's less than a handful of coaches I would trade for him right now.
 
#327      
No dog in this fight, but as someone who writes a fair amount and works directly with professional writers, the em dash isn't the AI indicator people think it is. The em dash predates LLM's and can be found in the Chicago Manual of Style. The reason it has become so widely incorporated into AI responses is because AI writing is modeled from content written by real people—content that uses em dashes to good effect.
you'd think the local chat GPT expert would know this lol!

man its salty in here today! 🤣 - is it always like this after a loss?
 
#328      
Another way I look at this is that we're upset with one 2nd weekend, but given the bar set at 3 in a decade, what if we had 2 halfway through the decade? We've been to rd of 32 four times... one of them being an E8

So if out of Brad's 277 games coached for Illinois, if he wins one singular more game, everybody is happy? Is that the really the huge gray area here? 1 game out of 277?
Here’s the thing, most fans will never be “happy”. Because the more a program accomplishes, the more that same program is expected to accomplish.

Look at Illinois football. Every fan message board for the last 20 years has been filled with “if Illinois football could just be competent and at least make bowls consistently, I’d be happy!”

Illinois football accomplishes that.

The expectation then raises and now fans are disappointed with 8-4.

I’ll use Ohio St football as another example.

They won the national championship last year and they’ve got as good of a chance as anyone to win it all again this year.

During signing day, the Ohio St fan boards were lit up with “how can we only be signing the 7th ranked class in the nation!?”

National championships. Top 10 classes. Not good enough.

Kansas won it all in basketball in 2022. You think fans are still happy with Self in 2026 after they finished the last two years 27 & 24 in KenPom and currently sit at 17 (4 spots lower than this terrible Brad Underwood team)? No way.

Such is life as a fan.
 
#329      
Another way I look at this is that we're upset with one 2nd weekend, but given the bar set at 3 in a decade, what if we had 2 halfway through the decade? We've been to rd of 32 four times... one of them being an E8

So if out of Brad's 277 games coached for Illinois, if he wins one singular more game, everybody is happy? Is that the really the huge gray area here? 1 game out of 277?
Yes, but the game isn't against Lehigh. Tournament wins matter vastly more and are tougher to get.

If I said we won three more games in Brad's tenure, it wouldn't be that big of a deal. But if I said we won three more tournament games in Brad's tenure, it could mean we won a national championship.

To be fair, I don't count Brad's official coaching start until Ayo got here. Brad was just picking up the pieces and trying to get the current roster ready to want to play basketball. Even then I'd say 19-20 was his first real year when he had his guys.
 
#330      
No dog in this fight, but as someone who writes a fair amount and works directly with professional writers, the em dash isn't the AI indicator people think it is. The em dash predates LLM's and can be found in the Chicago Manual of Style. The reason it has become so widely incorporated into AI responses is because AI writing is modeled from content written by real people—content that uses em dashes to good effect.
Not a professional writer, but a business professional who has written about 10,000 memos, reports, and decks in my 37-year career.

I'm just laughing because I used to use em dashes all the time but have stopped in the last few years for exactly the reasons mentioned before your post, people (including myself) think its AI.
 
#331      
Here’s the thing, most fans will never be “happy”. Because the more a program accomplishes, the more that same program is expected to accomplish.

Look at Illinois football. Every fan message board for the last 20 years has been filled with “if Illinois football could just be competent and at least make bowls consistently, I’d be happy!”

Illinois football accomplishes that.

The expectation then raises and now fans are disappointed with 8-4.

I’ll use Ohio St football as another example.

They won the national championship last year and they’ve got as good of a chance as anyone to win it all again this year.

During signing day, the Ohio St fan boards were lit up with “how can we only be signing the 7th ranked class in the nation!?”

National championships. Top 10 classes. Not good enough.

Kansas won it all in basketball in 2022. You think fans are still happy with Self in 2026 after they finished the last two years 27 & 24 in KenPom and currently sit at 17 (4 spots lower than this terrible Brad Underwood team)? No way.

Such is life as a fan.
Uconn basketball is a great example of this, too
 
#332      
I do go out occasionally, and I have a few bar flies and even an alcoholic or two within my family lineage... love them but would not trust their opinions on many things, especially if that opinion is to fire Brad Underwood... you started with "people in bars all across the midwest" and now we're talking about 100% sober people who happen to "be at bars all across the midwest"... smells fishy to me, I'll disengage from this part of the convo at this point

Also can't engage with an argument that B1G is mid-tier, sorry... that's just wrong and you know it and its another argument you'll never win
We are a good/great conference but we have seen since the start of the B1G tourney that we are a very physical league. The refs call the game differently in the B1G than refs in other conferences. Look at their OSU/Illinois game in 21. That game was brutally played. OSU threw everything and the kitchen sink at us. We are a banger league. From the days of Purdues Rowinski playing LB on the basketball court, we have been a physical league.
 
#333      
Here’s the thing, most fans will never be “happy”. Because the more a program accomplishes, the more that same program is expected to accomplish.

Look at Illinois football. Every fan message board for the last 20 years has been filled with “if Illinois football could just be competent and at least make bowls consistently, I’d be happy!”

Illinois football accomplishes that.

The expectation then raises and now fans are disappointed with 8-4.

I’ll use Ohio St football as another example.

They won the national championship last year and they’ve got as good of a chance as anyone to win it all again this year.

During signing day, the Ohio St fan boards were lit up with “how can we only be signing the 7th ranked class in the nation!?”

National championships. Top 10 classes. Not good enough.

Kansas won it all in basketball in 2022. You think fans are still happy with Self in 2026 after they finished the last two years 27 & 24 in KenPom and currently sit at 17 (4 spots lower than this terrible Brad Underwood team)? No way.

Such is life as a fan.
I thought of this when a poster said yesterday “1 second weekend in 7 years or 1 tournament in 9 years, is there really a difference?”

lol I’ve been through some stuff with this program where I’m just not throwing away and dismissing how badly I want to just be in the tournament, not even needing a single digit seed.

The fact some fans have gotten to that point so easily is actually the best compliment to underwood there is
 
#334      
Another way I look at this is that we're upset with one 2nd weekend, but given the bar set at 3 in a decade, what if we had 2 halfway through the decade? We've been to rd of 32 four times... one of them being an E8

So if out of Brad's 277 games coached for Illinois, if he wins one singular more game, everybody is happy? Is that the really the huge gray area here? 1 game out of 277?
It's all Sister Jean's fault
 
#335      
Yes, but the game isn't against Lehigh. Tournament wins matter vastly more and are tougher to get.

If I said we won three more games in Brad's tenure, it wouldn't be that big of a deal. But if I said we won three more tournament games in Brad's tenure, it could mean we won a national championship.

To be fair, I don't count Brad's official coaching start until Ayo got here. Brad was just picking up the pieces and trying to get the current roster ready to want to play basketball. Even then I'd say 19-20 was his first real year when he had his guys.

How do we know a 2nd round game wouldn't be against Lehigh or similar opponent? Ask Purdue (one of many teams I could insert here) why I would ask that question

People are saying the conversation would be vastly different if one more of the four rd of 32 games was a win... I personally don't believe that, but that's been the predominant claim
 
#336      
We are a good/great conference but we have seen since the start of the B1G tourney that we are a very physical league. The refs call the game differently in the B1G than refs in other conferences. Look at their OSU/Illinois game in 21. That game was brutally played. OSU threw everything and the kitchen sink at us. We are a banger league. From the days of Purdues Rowinski playing LB on the basketball court, we have been a physical league.
Exactly why the highly skilled teams take big ten teams down at a high rate each year. The big ten does great in the opening couple of rounds and then fades off once the top tier teams start advancing. 1 final four team in a decade is really representative of the issue with the league right now.
  • 2025: 13–8 (.619) | 8 teams | Furthest: Elite Eight (started 9-0 in opening round)
  • 2024: 10–6 (.625) | 6 teams | Furthest: Championship Game (Purdue lost to UConn)
  • 2023: 6–8 (.429) | 8 teams | Furthest: Sweet 16
  • 2022: 9–9 (.500) | 9 teams | Furthest: Sweet 16
  • 2021: 8–9 (.471) | 9 teams | Furthest: Elite Eight
  • 2019: 13–8 (.650) | 8 teams | Furthest: Elite Eight
  • 2018: 9–4 (.692) | 4 teams | Furthest: Elite Eight
  • 2017: 8–7 (.533) | 7 teams | Furthest: Sweet 16
  • 2016: 8–7 (.533) | 7 teams | Furthest: Sweet 16
  • 2015: 12–7 (.632) | 7 teams | Furthest: Elite Eight
 
#337      
How do we know a 2nd round game wouldn't be against Lehigh or similar opponent? Ask Purdue (one of many teams I could insert here) why I would ask that question

People are saying the conversation would be vastly different if one more of the four rd of 32 games was a win... I personally don't believe that, but that's been the predominant claim
Fine, Lehigh in November. Don't be obtuse.

I think it would matter to some degree. The 21 team ending feels very slightly better if we beat Loyola.

I wish Brad had more tournament success, and big game success for that matter, but he's done a lot more good for our program than some losses would count against him.
 
#338      
Fine, Lehigh in November. Don't be obtuse.

I think it would matter to some degree. The 21 team ending feels very slightly better if we beat Loyola.

I wish Brad had more tournament success, and big game success for that matter, but he's done a lot more good for our program than some losses would count against him.

I'm not being obtuse, I responded directly to what you wrote.

Since you're super concerned with the semantics here, we're still talking about a single game. But back to the actual point since we've gotten sidetracked here:

Does it move the needle for the critics? Highly highly doubtful, imo.
 
#340      
Exactly why the highly skilled teams take big ten teams down at a high rate each year. The big ten does great in the opening couple of rounds and then fades off once the top tier teams start advancing. 1 final four team in a decade is really representative of the issue with the league right now.
  • 2025: 13–8 (.619) | 8 teams | Furthest: Elite Eight (started 9-0 in opening round)
  • 2024: 10–6 (.625) | 6 teams | Furthest: Championship Game (Purdue lost to UConn)
  • 2023: 6–8 (.429) | 8 teams | Furthest: Sweet 16
  • 2022: 9–9 (.500) | 9 teams | Furthest: Sweet 16
  • 2021: 8–9 (.471) | 9 teams | Furthest: Elite Eight
  • 2019: 13–8 (.650) | 8 teams | Furthest: Elite Eight
  • 2018: 9–4 (.692) | 4 teams | Furthest: Elite Eight
  • 2017: 8–7 (.533) | 7 teams | Furthest: Sweet 16
  • 2016: 8–7 (.533) | 7 teams | Furthest: Sweet 16
  • 2015: 12–7 (.632) | 7 teams | Furthest: Elite Eight

Yet still not a "mid-tier" conference

B1G currently 2nd ranked conf overall in all metrics I've seen

Go ahead and hold on to this:

L Loser GIF
 
#341      
Yet still not a "mid-tier" program

B1G currently 2nd ranked conf overall in all metrics I've seen

Go ahead and hold on to this:

L Loser GIF
*Currently ranked*

What stats course did you take that allowed for 13 game sample sizes to supersede 10 year ones?

And hold this L? Are you 14? Like listen man.. I get it. You love you some Bu. Maybe let those of us with different opinions to express them? And don’t turn this into a middle school chat room?
 
#342      
Are you actually under the impression the big ten is a “mid tier basketball conference”?

This is again where id ask, how many coaches outside of Cal, can you name where they went to even just 3 tournaments in a row as a single digit seed that were fired?

Surely this has been said, but how’s that Coach Cal firing working out so far for Kentucky?
 
#343      
*Currently ranked*

What stats course did you take that allowed for 13 game sample sizes to supersede 10 year ones?

And hold this L? Are you 14?

Oh okay "am I 14?"

What happened to "can we please be respectful?"

Guess you fell off your high horse all of the sudden, you can dish it out but can't take it :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:

B1G has been a P4 conference every single season for as far as I can remember, so I'll see your 10 year sample size and raise it to "pretty much forever"
 
#345      
you'd think the local chat GPT expert would know this lol!

man its salty in here today! 🤣 - is it always like this after a loss?
You think this is bad? You should see it after a win.

Just kidding.

Hey man, if ya come in hot with some spicy takes, you gotta be prepared for a little blowback.

Make sure you don't just drop in to voice your grievances. Post some positive stuff, too. It'll go a long way with the board 👍
 
#347      
I like Brad and I like most of the staff. Hamer might be a nice guy, I don't know, but I did not like him as a coach. The problem is I don't like Crocker so far either. I don't see the value added when we still look lost and weak on defense. Don't Geoff or Orlando know anything about defense? If the answer is no, then for crying out loud bring in LaTulip, or even J Leman--at least he understands toughness.
 
#348      
You think this is bad? You should see it after a win.

Just kidding.

Hey man, if ya come in hot with some spicy takes, you gotta be prepared for a little blowback.

Make sure you don't just drop in to voice your grievances. Post some positive stuff, too. It'll go a long way with the board 👍
lol. Man… no kidding.

Appreciate it! I actually posted quite a few positive things on the football thread. I get my takes are spicy and will ruffle feathers. I expect that. But I expect as adults we can debate without turning into clowns. Unfortunately we have some bad actors it appears (like any chat room does). I’ll try to post things in a positive light tho, cause it appears to tickle the sensitivity bone when facts are presented that don’t align with their narrative.
 
#350      
No dog in this fight, but as someone who writes a fair amount and works directly with professional writers, the em dash isn't the AI indicator people think it is. The em dash predates LLM's and can be found in the Chicago Manual of Style. The reason it has become so widely incorporated into AI responses is because AI writing is modeled from content written by real people—content that uses em dashes to good effect.
I'll believe you, but a few pointers (and correct me on any if I'm mistaken):

As an avid mac user, these are the following dashes:

hyphen: smallest dash, just right of the 0.
en dash: medium sized dash, option + hyphen.
em dash: largest sized dash, option + shift + hyphen.

For professional writeups, that em dash may prove a quintessential aspect of work. But for posting a few sentences on a sports message board, using it multiple times is generally highly unlikely. BUT, most notably, that was the guy's only post which 1) contained em dashes and 2) was written with highly articulate grammer and language.

Some of his other posts:
*Currently ranked*

What stats course did you take that allowed for 13 game sample sizes to supersede 10 year ones?

And hold this L? Are you 14? Like listen man.. I get it. You love you some Bu. Maybe let those of us with different opinions to express them? And don’t turn this into a middle school chat room?
dude i have no idea why you don't think people can naturally type in a professional manner lol. If you have a disagreement that is fine. But this is childish my guy.
The conference hasn't won a title since Y2K lol. Look at any data point and it would tell you nationally the big ten is below the Big 12, ACC, SEC and even the Big East most years (not this year). If you're the 5th or 6th best CBB conference, then yeah id call you mid-tier.
you'd think the local chat GPT expert would know this lol!

man its salty in here today! 🤣 - is it always like this after a loss?
Compared to the one I called out:
First, I’m not sure why the tone has gotten so aggressive. Calling people you don’t know “bar flies” and “alcoholics” feels unnecessary and off-base—let’s keep this respectful.

Some of us have higher expectations for this program than simply competing in a mid-tier college basketball conference. The goal should be national relevance—winning and competing against the best programs in the country. Also, why keep referring to this as a “lifetime contract”? He’s 62 and received a five-year extension. What exactly has he accomplished to warrant that level of security? If one Elite Eight run and a few conference titles over eight years justify a lifetime deal, then clearly the expectations for this program aren’t as high as they should be.
I think the grammar speaks for itself.

And for another additional note: AI em dashes are known to never uses spaces between them, and neither did his. I know there are textbooks outlining what's the correct way to use it (use spaces or not), but it's certainly a gray area.

But most importantly what I was contemplating was the big ten being a "mid tier college basketball conference." Was it more likely he himself stood on that lunacy-fueled ideology or a fault in an AI system? Sounds like he's entitled to defend that claim, as ridiculous as that is, so I'll let that one pass.
 
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