Illini Basketball 2026-2027

#151      
HoopsterMan
EmeraldCityIllini said:
I can't remember when i said this midseason, but that part is no small feat and is the baseline for continuing to bring in top recruits. Lots and lots of coaches either misevaluate the wrong "gold" or simply fail with awesome players. Even great coaches have had failures with awesome recruits.

If the kid from Barcelona is actually all that, I think he'll succeed at Duke and Scheyer has proven that. Your point on anyone ranked outside really the top 20 not developing at Duke stands. I'm not sure he or Duke cares though and we'll see how that works long term.
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We'll see. he's a fairly poor example as he's getting a large shiney nugget with JBB. They may not care, and that's fine. Yet no one is going to convince me that Scheyer develops as I've yet to see him take putty and really shape it, more acquiring really great talent and seeing it off in a year.

Filipowski was the 4th ranked kid, went in second round. Stats weren't tremendously better second year. Mitchell was ranked 13th, pushed out. Proctor 23rd. Harris 39th, already pushed him out after 2 years. TJ Powers.

I have yet to see one example of him really developing anyone. It's been amazing acquisition, yet how much of that is him versus the Duke brand?
 
#152      
Fly Illini Fly!
PepeSilvia said:
What if we petition the NCAA to allow us to hockey sub the twins for offense/defense.

Or do we think they look enough alike that we could put them in the same jersey and just hockey sub in confusion? Kind of like when Jose Conseco allegedly hit for his brother.
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Zvonimir was 12th in the country is defensive box plus minus:

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#154      
Fly Illini Fly!
MDchicago said:
New policy this year to improve our rim conversation % surrendered metric.

talk smack channel 9 GIF by Family Food Fight
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I think that policy would work best for our Free Throw % surrendered (which is how well teams shoot free throws against you):

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Having guards behind the 3pt line, talking to the FT shooter in the final 5 minutes of a game, as they're doing their routines. That seems a lot more effective than on shots at the rim (which is more about size and intimidation from players like Z).
 
#156      
NarrowJ
BYU has pumped a ton of money into their roster with not a lot to show for it.

Louisville also spent a ton last year, not sure about the year prior.

Arkansas has been among the biggest spenders.

St John's under Pitino has been as well.

Indiana continues to spend a lot of money and not really get anywhere.
 
#160      
Fly Illini Fly!
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#161      
Combo
HoopsterMan said:
We'll see. he's a fairly poor example as he's getting a large shiney nugget with JBB. They may not care, and that's fine. Yet no one is going to convince me that Scheyer develops as I've yet to see him take putty and really shape it, more acquiring really great talent and seeing it off in a year.

Filipowski was the 4th ranked kid, went in second round. Stats weren't tremendously better second year. Mitchell was ranked 13th, pushed out. Proctor 23rd. Harris 39th, already pushed him out after 2 years. TJ Powers.

I have yet to see one example of him really developing anyone. It's been amazing acquisition, yet how much of that is him versus the Duke brand?
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He doesn't need to do that. They get so many high 5 star recruits, there's just no need for him to develop an under-the-radar type. So we're unlikely to see it.
 
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#162      
HoopsterMan
Combo said:
He doesn't need to do that. They get so many high 5 star recruits, there's just no need for him to develop an under-the-radar type. So we're unlikely to see it.
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I tend to find this is the part of his formula that is missing - us, other top programs are building cores through retention, players getting better every year and becoming culture carriers and leaders. Hurley does it intentionally with kids like Karaban, or he goes out and gets young transfer he can build over a couple years. The straight HS to gone in a year route doesn't really produce that. Arizona's most valuable player this past year was a 4 years transfer PG.
 
#163      
Fly Illini Fly!
HoopsterMan said:
Arizona's most valuable player this past year was a 4 years transfer PG.
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Nope. It was a 1&D freshman.

It was ridiculous for Bradley to get POY (over Dybantsa, Toppin, Flemings, and Jefferson). He wasn't even the best player on his own team.

Burries led the team in scoring, and it wasn't close.

Torvik has Burries as their best player; and so does EvanMiya.

Literally none of the advanced stats on SRCBB has Bradley better than Burries:

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And your point in general is invalid. 3 of AZ's 5 starters were freshman (Burries, Peat, and Ivan K.).
 
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#165      
PleaseMakeABowlGame
lstewart53x3 said:
What!? They weren’t even the best backcourt in the B1G last year.

Using Torvik BPM which accounts for both offense and defense:

Illinois —

Wagler: 11.0
Boswell: 5.8

Total: 16.8

Purdue —

Smith: 8.8
Loyer: 8.1

Total: 18.9

Nebraska —

Sandfort: 10.5
Hoiberg: 8.1

Total: 18.6

Ohio St —

Thornton: 11.6
Mobley Jr: 5.5

Total: 17.1

Wisconsin —

Boyd: 8.5
Blackwell: 6.7

Total: 15.2
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Everyone knows Torvik's player rating system is PORPAGATU (or PRPG!). Definitely not BPM.

Boyd + Blackwell = 10.7
Boswell + Wagler = 10.9
Smith + Loyer = 9.9
Sandfort + Hoiberg = 8.9
Thornton + Mobley = 11.2

Your also completely ignoring the eye test. They could both be game wreckers, who could both take over a game (we saw it pretty clearly against Illinois).

They were both All BIG. All the duos you have - only one was All BIG.

Domask and Shannon is the only legitimate argument I've heard so far. It's TWO guys who can go win you a game.
 
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#166      
PleaseMakeABowlGame
Fly Illini Fly! said:
Nope. It was a 1&D freshman.

It was ridiculous for Bradley to get POY (over Dybantsa, Toppin, Flemings, and Jefferson). He wasn't even the best player on his own team.

Burries led the team in scoring, and it wasn't close.

Torvik has Burries as their best player; and so does EvanMiya.

Literally none of the advanced stats on SRCBB has Bradley better than Burries:

View attachment 51523

And your point in general is invalid. 3 of AZ's 5 starters were freshman (Burries, Peat, and Ivan K.).
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Burries was tremendous. His skillset is similar to Coleman.

Neither is an on ball guy (like Wagler or Acuff). Both are great shooters, play defense, rebound, and can get downhill.
 
#168      
NarrowJ
PleaseMakeABowlGame said:
Everyone knows Torvik's player rating system is PORPAGATU (or PRPG!). Definitely not BPM.

Boyd + Blackwell = 10.7
Boswell + Wagler = 10.9
Smith + Loyer = 9.9
Sandfort + Hoiberg = 8.9
Thornton + Mobley = 11.2

Your also completely ignoring the eye test. They could both be game wreckers, who could both take over a game (we saw it pretty clearly against Illinois).

They were both All BIG. All the duos you have - only one was All BIG.

Domask and Shannon is the only legitimate argument I've heard so far. It's TWO guys who can go win you a game.
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So 3rd in the B1G this year if we use your preferred data point. Still an oceanic void from 'best backcourt in the last 10 years' which is a clickbait-level hot take. This stat has Thornton/Mobley as the best backcourt. Do you agree with that? If not, is this any more useful than BPM? Probably less.

This duo finished the season on a 24-11 team that lost to a 12 seed. You can't keep completely ignoring that if you want to actually have a serious conversation about this. Thus, your final point being "two guys that can go win you a game" is just completely hilarious.
 
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