I almost hit like, and agree with almost all, other than we have Peters another year, also IW will be in his 2nd year along with Jrs, that are Srs, 4-5 is bare minimum, but also how competitive, I believe our defense has grown up and is going to compete. Maybe another year. Let's hope we don't have to worry.
Illini Football 2019
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I agree as well. But Lovie wants his scheme to work. This is his first year where he can run it.he will likely need to make adjustments. I think the critique gritty points out is that after next year, we run the same gamut of experience dying down followed by 2 bad years and then two good years. My counter would be that we have legitimate talent level increases in this and last class. So next years recruiting will predict the quality of the program in 2022
I'm with you on most again, not banking on down years, my concern is can we continue on O line and RBS after this year, we will have veteran receivers next year also, Peter or IW or a combination of both will be in place to put us where we want.
I like our depth at every position next year. with rbs we have Bonner and Epstein and Chace in the wings. I’m Particularly high with Chace and one year of Lou. O line we only lose Petitbon. We keep Lowe, palc, green, Cerny, Kramer, brown, pearl, Meyers, slaughter and others that will probably get a year or two in the weight room. Ultimately, we are solid with depth. Inept year should be fun and I think we have enough scholarship dispersion that we will be set for a great year in 2020 and beyond.
I'm with you, haters find another fight.I thought more were graduating on O line. Not as much worried about RBS, but important to have the line in for the QBs throwing tds!
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I'm not exactly sure what you mean by this. He's been running his scheme since he got here. Nickerson had no prior experience as a DC. If you mean running it as the DC, he had that honor the last four games, including the historic 63-0 loss, last season.
Now what would make you say a thing like that?
The notion that one blowout means anything is ridiculous, especially with a team of froshsophs. There were several big plays on broken coverages. Bad nights happen. No team in the country is winning football games with freshman and sophomores filling out the ranks. Add to it that we were on 3rd string receivers with the young team, I’m not surprised.
The talent wasn’t mature enough last year to run any defense. It also didn’t help the offense turned the ball over a ton. The last three years we had an Inexperienced defense, young defense, and lack of depth. This year none of those are the case (well, maybe still a bit young). But experience and depth have improved tremendously. Anyone can look at the depth chart when Lovie got here and see what we had in the cubit classes.
It’s all a question of coaching this year. And This will be our first fielded team where there is enough depth and talent to play out the defense and make tweaks with the expectation that things improve.
This isn’t a complicated decision in regards to Lovie. If we are giving up 60+ points a game this year and win 4 games, we find s new coach. If we improve in our competitiveness and wins, we keep him.
I know not everyone feels this way, and there are a mutitude of variables that could (and should) shift people to other viewpoints...but in my eyes, this is year 3 of a rebuild for Lovie. (In terms of troops in the trenches)
So I will hold him to my year 3 standard. And that year 3 standard has been/always will be a win small/lose competitively mentality.
But if we could simply surpass that, make a bowl and have a this be moot, that would be great.
JW will have his work cut out for him if Lovie wins 5. 4 is an easy kill, 6 is an easy keep. 5 forces you to dig deeper and see if it’s worth letting Lovie possibly waste an incredibly experienced and talented senior class or give it to the new guy to jump start recruiting with a potentially good season.
So I will hold him to my year 3 standard. And that year 3 standard has been/always will be a win small/lose competitively mentality.
But if we could simply surpass that, make a bowl and have a this be moot, that would be great.
JW will have his work cut out for him if Lovie wins 5. 4 is an easy kill, 6 is an easy keep. 5 forces you to dig deeper and see if it’s worth letting Lovie possibly waste an incredibly experienced and talented senior class or give it to the new guy to jump start recruiting with a potentially good season.
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
Groupthink is another fascinating psychological process.
Selection bias too. What would people still posting here after a decade of zero fun and endless humiliation tend to have in common?
Selection bias too. What would people still posting here after a decade of zero fun and endless humiliation tend to have in common?
2016 Defensive Depth Chart - what Lovie had to work with. Does not include Hardy Nickerson, Jr. and Gimel President, who transferred in, or incoming freshmen.
DE1 Dawuane Smoot (SR) Brandon Roberts (JR)
DT1 Chunky Clements (SR) Jamal Milan (R-FR)
DT2 Robert Bain (SR) Tito Odenigbo (R-SO)
DE2 Carroll Phillips (SR) Henry McGrew (R-SO)
WLB James Crawford (JR) Justice Williams (R-FR)
MLB Tre Watson (SO) Mike Svetina (SR)
SLB Julian Jones (SO) Austin Roberts (SO)
CB1 Jaylen Dunlap (JR) Cameron Watkins (R-FR) Frank Sumpter (R-FR)
CB2 Ahmari Hayes (JR) Chris James (JR)
FS Caleb Day (SR) Julian Hylton (SO) Trenard Davis (R-FR)
SS Taylor Barton (SR) Darwyn Kelly (JR) Patrick Nelson (R-FR)
Nickel Dillan Cazley (SR) Darius Mosley (SR)
This defense ended up being ranked 94th in team defense in the country.
Deleted member 654622
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Guest
I'm sorry but can we stop making post like this? That was the final score yes. But the comment is always brought up when talking about Lovie running the defense. The defense didn't give up 63 points. This was a full team A** WHOOPING, which includes Rod Smith and Bob Ligashesky units, two coaches that get a lot of love on this board
FT35
- Naperville
94th according to what? I'm seeing that the overall S+P ranking was 94th that year. The Defense was 77th. The Offense was 106th.
https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ncaa2016
That's not good, obviously, but all of these guys were recruited to fit Tim Banks's defense. There's going to be an adjustment for the implementation of a different scheme.
McGrew, for instance, was recruited to play a position that no longer existed in Lovie/Nickerson's defense.
https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ncaa2016
That's not good, obviously, but all of these guys were recruited to fit Tim Banks's defense. There's going to be an adjustment for the implementation of a different scheme.
McGrew, for instance, was recruited to play a position that no longer existed in Lovie/Nickerson's defense.
I'm guessing that you are posting this to suggest that this was a solid team, or to say that this team did better than any of Lovie's teams. How many games do you think this defense was going to win? 8? I think 6 was close to the ceiling. This roster is exactly my point. With the seniors on the roster, this is a borderline bowl team. Remove the seniors and at best, it is a borderline bowl team. The depth is very weak (Lovie rotates a much deeper bench, usually 5 DTs) and the culture was doing pretty poorly. Both Josh and Lovie thought it was best to remove all of the non BIG caliber depth and give experience to younger guys with much higher upside. Could the coaching staff have tried to work on tweaking and improving? Yes. But they didn't believe it was in the best interest of the program. Based on the current roster, I tend to agree. If Lovie leaves next year, the depth on this team is good and the younger guys have a ton of talent, I think if the caliber of recruiting stays where it has been last year and this year, good enough to compete for the BIG West. And, I have no doubt that if Lovie can't use the current roster to win, I am sure the next coach will be able to. I, personally, wouldn't say that about this roster you posted. And certainly not the future of the posted roster.
No. Lovie had four games where he "ran" the defense, and this was one of them. I'm not disagreeing with the part played by the offense and special teams. This game is fair game for a discussion of either of those topics as well. The thing is, this was a historic loss under the helm of one of the highest paid coaches in the country and with one of the highest budgets for assistant coaches.
Bill Cubit never had a loss this bad, even playing bad guy Tim Beckman's players.
Bad guy Tim Beckman never had a loss this bad.
Gary Moeller never had a loss this bad.
Jim Valek never had a loss this bad.
We have to go back to 1906 to find a loss this bad. Good news, though: the Illini had a winning record in 1907! (Different coach, though.)
FT35
- Naperville
People are incapable of independent thought just because they post here, apparently. Why haven't we sucked you in yet?
This made me throw up in my own mouth
I sincerely hope this ends up being SO wrong.
This is a good point, Lovie had a historically bad loss as head coach, the entire team does fall on him. I don't think or care much about bad losses, but more importantly, he had an awful season. Maybe he is not cut out for the college game. If that is the case, then we hire a new coach and the new coach will be in great position to win
Scoring defense. S+P is a better choice, though.
Joel Goodson
- how was I to know, she was with the Russians too?
Some folks are special. Just ask them.
Yeah and in the past, the Iowa coach probably doesn't have starters in the game so late like they did. It was a bad loss all away around. No doubt about it. But, I remember bitching that there were still Iowa starters in the game, late.
Deleted member 654622
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I am not disagreeing with any of this. But that is not how you used that information originally. When the topic is Lovie as defensive coordinator, eventually 63-0 is going to be brought up in context as if the defense gave up all those 63 points. On this board Rod and Ligs are well respected. But somehow get a pass for the TEAM beatdown vs Iowa. That is my issue.
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