Illini in the Pros (Basketball)

#601      
iFlyBy
WhereDoWeStandWithStorr? said:
He only fouled out in one game at illinois
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Tell me you don't watch basketball without telling me you don't watch basketball.

Because if you actually watched basketball instead of just looking at box scores, you'd know that coaches from all schools take players out of the game when they pick up their second foul in the first half. So if a guy picks up a quick two fouls, he's sitting for a long while. And then if he picks up a third early in the second half, guess what, back to the bench. He might finish the game with only those three fouls, but foul trouble absolutely limited his minutes.

But to box score and highlight watchers like you, you'd have no idea. So instead you just point to a "fouling out" stat as some sort of gotcha.
 
#602      
Deacon05
I would 100 percent rather talk about cottage cheese than Morez "I left and talk !!!!" ffing Johnson. And I hate cottage cheese.
 
#603      
EmeraldCityIllini
I actually think Morez would have developed more and better as an offensive player here than Michigan (sue me) - Brad is simply the better offensive coach than May.

The fouling thing was very real though. Especially as we’ve learned how much Brad emphasizes not fouling - it’s not just about fouling out, he doesn’t want to rack up free throw attempts.

To be fair to Morez on “fit” though. Mara was a better defensive fit than Tomi. Less emphasis on rim protection for Morez helped the fouling issue
 
#604      
wc_illini
iFlyBy said:
Tell me you don't watch basketball without telling me you don't watch basketball.

Because if you actually watched basketball instead of just looking at box scores, you'd know that coaches from all schools take players out of the game when they pick up their second foul in the first half. So if a guy picks up a quick two fouls, he's sitting for a long while. And then if he picks up a third early in the second half, guess what, back to the bench. He might finish the game with only those three fouls, but foul trouble absolutely limited his minutes.

But to box score and highlight watchers like you, you'd have no idea. So instead you just point to a "fouling out" stat as some sort of gotcha.
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This is a complete tangent (and I'm not disagreeing that what you're saying happened), but that decision making has always annoyed me. I understand foul trouble can change a player's effectiveness and that fouls generally lead to points (directly or starting the bonus sooner), but if a good player sits on the bench and ends the game with 3 fouls, you left lots of minutes on the table.
 
#605      
WhereDoWeStandWithStorr?
iFlyBy said:
Tell me you don't watch basketball without telling me you don't watch basketball.

Because if you actually watched basketball instead of just looking at box scores, you'd know that coaches from all schools take players out of the game when they pick up their second foul in the first half. So if a guy picks up a quick two fouls, he's sitting for a long while. And then if he picks up a third early in the second half, guess what, back to the bench. He might finish the game with only those three fouls, but foul trouble absolutely limited his minutes.

But to box score and highlight watchers like you, you'd have no idea. So instead you just point to a "fouling out" stat as some sort of gotcha.
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Okay, well, let's take a look at 3 foul and 4 foul games then (wherever you'd like to draw the line).

Morez played 30 total games, and had 7 games with 4+ fouls. 30-7 = 23 other games where he could've played more minutes (but didn't).

He had 14 games with 3+ fouls. 30-14 = 16 other games where he could've played more minutes (but didn't).

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The point is that he was our 7th man. He was seen as the 7th best player, and was therefore 7th in minutes (and wasn't even close to being 5th or 6th). If he was our starting power forward, but ended up low 20s in minutes due to foul trouble (as opposed to high 20s like Mirk), then I think it's a perfectly reasonable argument.

But, we were too busy giving Humrichous the starter minutes at the 4, hoping he'd break out of his slump, and Rez was riding the bench.

This season, we brought Ben back, but as a connective piece in a bench role. He was no longer priority over our talented freshman PF in Mirkovic, who started all the games from Day 1. Ben embraced his new role, improved his shooting, defense, rebounding, and we went on to have an awesome year.

It's just so obvious the contrast between the two situations.
 
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#606      
NarrowJ
WhereDoWeStandWithStorr? said:
Okay, well, let's take a look at 3 foul and 4 foul games then (wherever you'd like to draw the line).

Morez played 30 total games, and had 7 games with 4+ fouls. 30-7 = 23 other games where he could've played more minutes (but didn't).

He had 14 games with 3+ fouls. 30-14 = 16 other games where he could've played more minutes (but didn't).

___

The point is that he was our 7th man. He was seen as the 7th best player, and was therefore 7th in minutes (and wasn't even close to being 5th or 6th). If he was our starting power forward, but ended up low 20s in minutes due to foul trouble (as opposed to high 20s like Mirk), then I think it's a perfectly reasonable argument.

But, we were too busy giving Humrichous the starter minutes at the 4, hoping he'd break out of his slump, and Rez was riding the bench.

This season, we brought Ben back, but as a connective piece in a bench role. He was no longer priority over our talented freshman PF in Mirkovic, who started all the games from Day 1. Ben embraced his new role, improved his shooting, defense, rebounding, and we went on to have an awesome year.

It's just so obvious the contrast between the two situations.
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It’s not like he got a ton more minutes at Michigan… 18 vs 25

The not racking up 4 fouls in 9 minutes like he did for us helped him a ton in that regard. Also, being a lot better on the defensive end.

Our starting PF played 29.5 minutes per game so he likely would’ve played more here than he did at Michigan.
 
#607      
Fly Illini Fly!
NarrowJ said:
It’s not like he got a ton more minutes at Michigan… 18 vs 25
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Ton more minutes. 7 more minutes per game is a lot.

Keaton last season played 34. Whole lot different than if he played 27?

Also, Michigan destroyed almost everybody they played, which means they had lots of garbage time rest.

.....

If Morez played 25mpg at Illinois, he would've averaged 9.9pts and 9.5rebs. That's basically a double double.
 
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#608      
the juiceman cometh
Fly Illini Fly! said:
Ton more minutes. 7 more minutes per game is a lot.
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But even that's misleading. By the end of his freshman season his minutes had increased quite a bit. From his first start on January 23 to the end of the season he averaged about 22 minutes. It was clear to everyone that if he came back he'd have played a much bigger role his sophomore season, because he was already playing a bigger role at the end of his freshman season.
 
#609      
NarrowJ
Fly Illini Fly! said:
Ton more minutes. 7 more minutes per game is a lot.

Keaton last season played 34. Whole lot different than if he played 27?

Also, Michigan destroyed almost everybody they played, so they had the benefit for alot more garbage time rest.
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7 is barely 1/6 of a basketball game, not a lot

Bigs don’t typically play as many minutes as guards so Keaton is an Apple/Orange comp

Last season Michigan played 26 games with > 10 point margin. Illinois? 22
 
#610      
Fly Illini Fly!
the juiceman cometh said:
But even that's misleading. By the end of his freshman season his minutes had increased quite a bit. From his first start on January 23 to the end of the season he averaged about 22 minutes. It was clear to everyone that if he came back he'd have played a much bigger role his sophomore season, because he was already playing a bigger role at the end of his freshman season.
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Agreed, and I've said this all along. His minutes in the 6-7 game stretch before breaking his wrist was very encouraging.

It's prior to that, earlier in the season, where his PT was a lot lower.
 
#611      
RollChief
orangem said:
Morez at pick #9 was the highest drafted non-freshman in the country. Sure he made more free throws this year that allowed him to stay at the end of games, but seriously ... the #9 pick wasn't even just one of the better players in the conference?
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I mean you took out my point but yeah the year before if you saw him against the better players in the conference as a freshman then he didn’t look like one of the better players in the conference… he made progress from Y1 to Y2, I doubt he would have even been drafted last year and wasn’t in the conversation for any all B1G honors so no I don’t think he was one of the better players in the conference as a freshman
 
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