Illini in the Pros (Basketball)

#651      
PleaseMakeABowlGame
lstewart53x3 said:
Yes, here’s my final take on Morez. Would love for someone who believes Morez left for role, not money, to answer these two questions:

1. If Morez chose to transfer because he was upset about his role his freshman year, why sign two separate agreements to return? Why not enter the transfer portal and find the best fit immediately?
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Because he loved Illinois and wanted to stay home.
lstewart53x3 said:
2. If he chose Michigan for role, not money, why did it take Michigan offering double the money to lure him over there? Why not take the same or even less money if the role was so much better?
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Because he loved Illinois and wanted to stay home.

People forget he committed before even the recruiting rankings were published (and stayed, unlike the QB that just went to Michigan). That’s how committed he was.

It took double the money PLUS a better/more logical role to lure him away. At Michigan, we wouldn’t have comparatively worse players starting over him, while making double the cash, while being with a coach who’s known for very good big development. It just made too much sense at the end.
 
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#652      
NarrowJ
I think if its fair to question Morez's playing time then its fair to question the credentials of the people complaining about it versus the credentials of the man who made those decisions. Pretty large discrepancy in competence there, and who knows, maybe there's actually some nuance to this (sheesh, nobody ever thought of that).

If some of you sat down in a room with closed doors with Brad and he had the opportunity to explain to you why he did some of the things he did, why he made certain decisions, I think you'd walk away with not only certainly a much more informed opinion but also maybe even a greater understanding that raw production isn't the first-and-only thing that goes into making these decisions. If raw production per minute was all that coaching cared about, then guys like Christian Wood would be in the NBA HOF.

Monday morning quarterbacking is all fine and dandy, but it means jack squat and you're not a better coach than the guy running the show and there's a very high degree of certainty that you're just talking out your behind and don't have all of the facts/info.
 
#653      
lstewart53x3
PleaseMakeABowlGame said:
Because he loved Illinois and wanted to stay home.

Because he loved Illinois and wanted to stay home.

People forget he committed before even the recruiting rankings were published (and stayed, unlike the QB that just went to Michigan). That’s how committed he was.

It took double the money PLUS a better/more logical role to lure him away. At Michigan, we wouldn’t have comparatively worse players starting over him, while making double the cash, while being with a coach who’s known for very good big development. It just made too much sense at the end.
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He loves the program so much that he trashes it ever chance he gets. Makes sense.

Regarding the bolded, when Morez signed (two) agreements to stay at Illinois, do you think that was for a bench role? Or a starting role at the 4?
 
#654      
Rad24
NarrowJ said:
I think if its fair to question Morez's playing time then its fair to question the credentials of the people complaining about it versus the credentials of the man who made those decisions. Pretty large discrepancy in competence there, and who knows, maybe there's actually some nuance to this (sheesh, nobody ever thought of that).

If some of you sat down in a room with closed doors with Brad and he had the opportunity to explain to you why he did some of the things he did, why he made certain decisions, I think you'd walk away with not only certainly a much more informed opinion but also maybe even a greater understanding that raw production isn't the first-and-only thing that goes into making these decisions. If raw production per minute was all that coaching cared about, then guys like Christian Wood would be in the NBA HOF.

Monday morning quarterbacking is all fine and dandy, but it means jack squat and you're not a better coach than the guy running the show and there's a very high degree of certainty that you're just talking out your behind and don't have all of the facts/info.
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Huh!? I think I/we are just giving our take on what might have been reasons of why things it went the way they did. It seems you have figured out our coach figured out the exact right thing to do for everyone because he was there and he knows best. I am more of a believer that every coach/person sees things a little differently and we all have our biases. I think these discussions are just that and we share our viewpoints not to see who is right.
 
#655      
EmpoweredIllini
lstewart53x3 said:
He loves the program so much that he trashes it ever chance he gets. Makes sense.

Regarding the bolded, when Morez signed (two) agreements to stay at Illinois, do you think that was for a bench role? Or a starting role at the 4?
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surprised you thought youd get any answer other than morez loved it here and evil brad pushed him out lol
 
#656      
NarrowJ
Rad24 said:
Huh!? I think I/we are just giving our take on what might have been reasons of why things it went the way they did. It seems you have figured out our coach figured out the exact right thing to do for everyone because he was there and he knows best. I am more of a believer that every coach/person sees things a little differently and we all have our biases. I think these discussions are just that and we share our viewpoints not to see who is right.
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I just said I was fine with people questioning it

But you also have to be fine with knowing you’re a guy on a couch (and not a D1 coach)
 
#658      
Rad24
NarrowJ said:
I just said I was fine with people questioning it

But you also have to be fine with knowing you’re a guy on a couch (and not a D1 coach)
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No problem there. I am also a father of 4 and understand how tough it is to be responsible and accountable for others whether you are a parent, coach, teacher, boss…. you name it. Most of the time there is no “right” answer and guess that is why it spurs discussion. You just do the best you can do and learn as you go (unless you are someone who knows everything and never makes a mistake - which is why I didn’t include president)!
 
#659      
EmeraldCityIllini
PleaseMakeABowlGame said:
Because he loved Illinois and wanted to stay home.

Because he loved Illinois and wanted to stay home.

People forget he committed before even the recruiting rankings were published (and stayed, unlike the QB that just went to Michigan). That’s how committed he was.

It took double the money PLUS a better/more logical role to lure him away. At Michigan, we wouldn’t have comparatively worse players starting over him, while making double the cash, while being with a coach who’s known for very good big development. It just made too much sense at the end.
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I’ve heard this a few times - going into last year, was dusty may really known that well for big man development?

And Vlad Golden certainly played nothing like what Morez wanted to be. So this mindset has confused me a bit

Agree on doubling the cash though
 
#660      
Fly Illini Fly!
EmeraldCityIllini said:
I’ve heard this a few times - going into last year, was dusty may really known that well for big man development?

And Vlad Golden certainly played nothing like what Morez wanted to be. So this mindset has confused me a bit

Agree on doubling the cash though
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Golden and Wild were very good the year before. Obviously that was the selling point.
 
#661      
Fly Illini Fly!
lstewart53x3 said:
He loves the program so much that he trashes it ever chance he gets. Makes sense.

Regarding the bolded, when Morez signed (two) agreements to stay at Illinois, do you think that was for a bench role? Or a starting role at the 4?
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“Trashing the program every chance he gets” is a bit exaggerated, imo.

I mean, if we’re that quick to judge, DGL does the same thing 🤷‍♀️. I don’t know why we’re so fixated on Morez (in terms of the “hate” aspect).
 
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#663      
EmeraldCityIllini
Fly Illini Fly! said:
Golden and Wild were very good the year before. Obviously that was the selling point.
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Wolf was.

But why would vlad golden (undrafted btw) who plays the 5 and doesn’t do any outside shooting or playmaking be a selling point for a guy who said he didn’t want to be a 5 and wanted to play more on the perimeter?

If that’s the case, wouldn’t Cockburn be a bigger selling point? Btw, morez’s camp ridiculing Kofi was another lame thing that I hated - but maybe that one didn’t bother others as much.
 
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#664      
NarrowJ
jamarvelous31 said:
That question has been answered a dozen times by a dozen people in the last day.
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Yes. This discussion doesn't even exist on here if he answers that question with complimentary things about Michigan and opts not to dive into how we were going to ruin him. Really not difficult to see how "Illinois was going to mess up my development" is provocative to our fanbase, especially when we've put a lot of guys in the NBA the last few years.
 
#665      
Fly Illini Fly!
NarrowJ said:
Really not difficult to see how "Illinois was going to mess up my development" is provocative to our fanbase, especially when we've put a lot of guys in the NBA the last few years.
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“I didn’t feel comfortable with my future being there” was the exact quote.

Not “Illinois was going to mess up my development.”

Yes the two COULD mean similar things, but one’s always the more exaggerated version
 
#666      
IlliniSaluki
Can we please stop the morez/michigan blah blah who cares he left. He wasn't an Illini this past year and he wasn't an Illini when he got drafted and he won't be an "illini in the pro's" .. FFS move the hell on people or go make a thread in the general Sports section and get this crap out of the IlliniMBB section.

facepalm GIF
 
#667      
NarrowJ
Fly Illini Fly! said:
“I didn’t feel comfortable with my future being there” was the exact quote.

Not “Illinois was going to mess up my development.”

Yes the two COULD mean similar things, but one’s always the more exaggerated version
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I feel like we're really splitting hairs with some of this stuff. Those are interchangeable statements, unless you intentionally took the quote to mean he wasn't comfortable with his future as a furniture salesman / screen door technician / other thing that isn't basketball.

We also have the quote "didn't want to end up like Kofi"

Like, what else could he have meant?
 
#669      
Fly Illini Fly!
NarrowJ said:
We also have the quote "didn't want to end up like Kofi"

Like, what else could he have meant?
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Here’s the thing about the Kofi statement: he was NEVER gonna end up like Kofi. Whether that means the college success which he wasn’t going to replicate (didn’t stay long enough), or the NBA draft profile which he had that Kofi never had.

He’s SIGNIFICANTLY more agile and athletic. It’s not even close.

So, yeah, he didn’t end up like Kofi (NBA draft standpoint, which he was referring), but he was never going to. His NBA profile was significantly higher from the moment he graduated HS. Athletic numbers are off the charts at the combine.

It was just a matter of how quickly he’d showcase 1st round pick level production (answer ended up being sophomore year).
 
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#670      
bavanga3
Illinirog1970 said:
So, what I hear you saying is that you question the strategy of head coaches EVERYWHERE who automatically sit players who get two fouls in the first half? Got it.

The reason that they do that is the player starts getting tentative in his play and trying "not to foul" instead of letting the game flow.

There are no wasted minutes, except when a player loses his aggressiveness on the court while trying to avoid his third foul. That's what happens if you leave him in. All coaches sit their best players if they get in foul trouble. those who don't pay a terrible price... like Augie vs UNC in that famous championship game (five fouls in nine minutes.)
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Augie wasnt left in during the 1st half after picking up his 2nd foul. So bad example. He sat out the entire rest of the first half then fouled out late in the 2nd half. His 5 fouls in 9 minutes is less to do with coaching and more to do with May getting every ticky tack foul.
 
#671      
RabidDawgClassic
Fly Illini Fly! said:
“Trashing the program every chance he gets” is a bit exaggerated, imo.

I mean, if we’re that quick to judge, DGL does the same thing 🤷‍♀️. I don’t know why we’re so fixated on Morez (in terms of the “hate” aspect).
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I don’t really want to involve myself in the Morez discussion, but to my knowledge, DGL has only done this once, and I was very saddened to see that he did.
 
#674      
jamarvelous31
Fly Illini Fly! said:
To my knowledge, twice. Once in an article, and the other on Instagram stories. (the Instagram one was more aggressive of the two)
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It's also a very different situation. DGL was told he wouldn't have a starting role or significant NLI on last year's team.

Him having a chip on his shoulder is much more relatable.
 
#675      
NarrowJ
Fly Illini Fly! said:
Here’s the thing about the Kofi statement: he was NEVER gonna end up like Kofi. Whether that means the college success which he wasn’t going to replicate (didn’t stay long enough), or the NBA draft profile which he had that Kofi never had.
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I totally agree and was taken back by the comment partly for that reason.

Back when he did this the first time I was on the other side of things, and I think persuaded to see (and now confirmed) is it indeed pretty bush league.

Anyhow, I should take a break from this chat, we're all just saying the same stuff over and over with different words at this point.

But mostly, man, DGL... then next we can't forget BS school being called... also, did Podz have this much to say?
 
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