Illinois 105, Minnesota 97 Postgame

#151      

Poe's Law

P
Poe's Law
Gordon Shumway said:
On high volume. It's not like they were 3 for 4.
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I would love for one of the internet geniuses to splice together a video of all Minnesota’s 3pt attempts, just so we could get a look at how many of them were contested shots. I heard coach reference a high number of the bounce.

Thank goodness or offense is Elite.
 
#154      

ILLFAN67

I
ILLFAN67
Loyalillini10 said:
Maybe someone has explained it and I just missed it, but I don't understand what has happened. What changed in our defense that teams exploit us on that end of the court now? I enjoy seeing a great offensive game, but I think we were scarier when we were so tough to score on.
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2 main reasons that I see. We can’t stop dribble drives very well and 2 since Hawkins is playing 99% of the minutes at the 5 it’s exposing how bad of a 1v1 defender he is in the post against true 5’s. He is a great help defender
 
#155      

JFGsCoffeeMug

JFGsCoffeeMug
BU:1 Trash cans:0
Chicago
JFGsCoffeeMug
Offense: special
Defense: special
Team: special

Bring on March!

Russell Crowe Gladiator GIF
 
#157      

skyIdub

skyIdub
Winged Warrior
skyIdub
The biggest takeaway for me is how huge our bench depth is. That was the difference in the game. Brad has so many ways to combat matchups. It seems like he is getting more comfortable with different combinations when the game is calling for it. Tonight it was Harmon and Dain, and switching TSJ back on ball.

Minny coach commented on this. It's hard to compete when your starting 5 play as well as they possibly can, but the other team brings 2 or 3 off the bench and creates too many problems to contain.

This could be a difference maker in the tourneys.
 
#158      

number1IlliniFan

number1IlliniFan
number1IlliniFan
ILLFAN67 said:
They hit some absolutely tough 3’s. Most of them were off the bounce. They shot the ball really well. What keeps getting me is our post defense. We are not good. Coleman is not a defensive post presence. Good help defender not so much 1v1.
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You're right thst Coleman is not a post defender. But he cannot be judged on his post D since he is not a legit 5. He gives up 20 pounds against most bigs in the post and is just outsized. He's a lock down defender vs other 4's. If only Dain could defend. The ways refs are calling the game, any legit big should just bang the heck out of Coleman and and expect to get away with murder and get him into foul trouble.
 
#159      

CharliedonSurf

C
CharliedonSurf
so illini said:
Minny shot the daylight out of the basket, yet we out played them. Only 4 turnovers . Wow!
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Awesome stat. That, and consitent FT shooting, and grabbing and/or holding on to some of those offensive rebounds to limit second and third chance points will propel this team even without an elite defense. I was very happy about this win as they put space between their opponent when it mattered and closed it out. A couple of the rebounding efforts where we could've had the ball but instead lost the battle and led to those second chance points ticked me off the most this game.
 
#161      

mysterio2525

mysterio2525
mysterio2525
illini510 said:
Love Underwood calling out Raphael Davis about the whole All Defensive Team discussion and then Raphael's response to that in the studio. I agree with Raphael. Top defenders don't need a double team and should be able to defend a particular player all game long rather than for stretches within a game. He subtly called out TSJ for not asking coach to defend Christie in the 1st half when he was on his heater.

I'm wondering if some of our guys have an incorrect belief in how good of defenders they are. There seems to be a disconnect. But, hey, at least TSJ and Coleman can use this as motivation to prove guys like Raphael wrong. But, he knows what he's talking about and he isn't wrong
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I tend to agree with Raphael on Coleman. Coleman is an amazing defender but is not strong enough in his legs to stop a guy from backing him down for an easy basket. His help side defense and hands are out of this world.

Tsj is also great and quick but can be little out of control so quick guards can get him off balance. He can recover with a block but that's not all the time.

Both are elite but have some weaknesses but when you are talking big ten dpoy you don't have room for weaknesses, it's that hard.
 
#162      

SkyysNotFalling

S
SkyysNotFalling
Offense is spectacular. Loved what Brad said about us not passing.. I really never even thought about it …. Instead of swinging the ball multiple times on a possession we just booty and either let someone go 1 on 1 or force the defense to over help…. Smart. No wonder our turnover rate is so low… Makes me confident in whatever defense we face come March. We have so so many guys who can get their own, good luck stopping us.

This might sound crazy but I think our defense was actually pretty good tonight… TSJ isn’t going to win B1G DPOY but mannnnn is he reminding me of senior year Trent the way he’s skipping over ball screens.. elite elite elite.

Dain played his best game in an Illini uniform. His effort on the glass was fantastic tonight… something is starting to click with him and I love to see it. What a warrior.

Great seeing Quincy see the ball go in a few times tonight … he looks to be coming back into form slowly…

Thought Justin was just really solid all night.

Minnesota was lights out from 3 tonight. Sometimes you just have to tip the cap, thought only 4-5 of their makes were uncontested… Ben is a great coach & Christie is a hell of a player.

Feeling really good about this team.
 
#163      

HensonHall71

H
HensonHall71
illini510 said:
Love Underwood calling out Raphael Davis about the whole All Defensive Team discussion and then Raphael's response to that in the studio. I agree with Raphael. Top defenders don't need a double team and should be able to defend a particular player all game long rather than for stretches within a game. He subtly called out TSJ for not asking coach to defend Christie in the 1st half when he was on his heater.
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Raphael can pick whoever he wants to on his all defensive team - it’s highly subjective. But he was talking out of both sides of his mouth- he made the point on twitter he was looking for “who can guard their man one on one” not team defense etc, but who can shut someone down. That’s TSJ - Hawkins didn’t score in the first half when TJ had him, Christie didn’t score in the second half when TJ had him- he was awesome this game checking the guy in front of him

Raphael reading the stats for guys overall for the game implying that is a ding on TSJs defense just shows he doesn’t know the game or he’s too lazy to look up the stats when TJ was on them.

It was similar to the Maryland game where Young had a great game against us- but not when TSJ was on him, he was 2-9 for 4 points. I don’t care if TSJ is on the all defensive team, but he’s the best perimeter defender in the big ten IMHO
 
#164      

illini510

I
illini510
mysterio2525 said:
I tend to agree with Raphael on Coleman. Coleman is an amazing defender but is not strong enough in his legs to stop a guy from backing him down for an easy basket. His help side defense and hands are out of this world.

Tsj is also great and quick but can be little out of control so quick guards can get him off balance. He can recover with a block but that's not all the time.

Both are elite but have some weaknesses but when you are talking big ten dpoy you don't have room for weaknesses, it's that hard.
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I agree with your take on it. Sometimes, people tend to have delusions and subjectivity about how good they think they are. They are both good defenders but not sure I'd put either on the All Defensive 1st Team in the Big 10. Coleman has slipped in recent weeks whereas if this was earlier in the season, I would've thought he would've been a lock for All Defensive 1st Team
 
#165      

fatboyslim

F
fatboyslim
illini510 said:
I agree with your take on it. Sometimes, people tend to have delusions and subjectivity about how good they think they are. They are both good defenders but not sure I'd put either on the All Defensive 1st Team in the Big 10. Coleman has slipped in recent weeks whereas if this was earlier in the season, I would've thought he would've been a lock for All Defensive 1st Team
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He has not. He just had 5 steals the previous game.
 
#166      

RabidDawgClassic

RabidDawgClassic
RabidDawgClassic
Penn State was our basketball 9/11.

With three minutes left and a 14 point lead against Minnesota, I didn’t feel safe. When the Gophers promptly cut it to 11, I thought “uh oh, here we go again.” When they cut it to 6 under 30 I envisioned a million ways we would lose.

But maybe, just maybe the PSU loss could have a silver lining. We weren’t complacent tonight. We took care of business. We got the job done.

Maybe, just maybe we’ll play focused and determined from now through March and — fingers crossed — into April.

Never forget.
 
#167      

illini510

I
illini510
HensonHall71 said:
Raphael can pick whoever he wants to on his all defensive team - it’s highly subjective. But he was talking out of both sides of his mouth- he made the point on twitter he was looking for “who can guard their man one on one” not team defense etc, but who can shut someone down. That’s TSJ - Hawkins didn’t score in the first half when TJ had him, Christie didn’t score in the second half when TJ had him- he was awesome this game checking the guy in front of him

Raphael reading the stats for guys overall for the game implying that is a ding on TSJs defense just shows he doesn’t know the game or he’s too lazy to look up the stats when TJ was on them.

It was similar to the Maryland game where Young had a great game against us- but not when TSJ was on him, he was 2-9 for 4 points. I don’t care if TSJ is on the all defensive team, but he’s the best perimeter defender in the big ten IMHO
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Raphael did win Big 10 Defensive player of the year in 2015. He was a beast for Purdue defensively. With all due respect, he has more credibility than any of us so his opinion can be taken legitimately. He has no bones in the game. He's talking based on his experience.

If you saw Mike LaTulip's film breakdown on Youtube of the Penn St game via Illini Inquirer, what we saw was many lapses on defense close to the TV timeouts by Terrance. It is because he exerts so much energy on offense and driving to the lane that he gets tired and it affects his defense. This is especially the case when he plays as many minutes as he does and doesn't get regular breathers. That falls on Underwood. Now, Raphael Davis was never the top scorer or offensive threat on any of those Purdue teams, so there is a difference there. But, unfortunately, TSJ's defense will be slightly affected because of his offensive output and the amount of energy he exerts on that side of the ball. It's no disrespect to TSJ but just the reality of the situation

The proof is in the pudding. Line change during the Iowa game. Underwood was not happy with anyone's defense including Coleman and TSJ. For how insightful Coleman was today in the post presser, I do believe he is wearing orange sunglasses when it comes to thinking that they are fine defensively. They are not fine defensively. There's some delusions there unfortunately. But, there's a lot of top 25 teams that aren't very good defensively(Kentucky, Alabama, Arizona, UNC to name a few) so we aren't alone in our defensive issues. We need to get the right draw. If we get stuck with Houston or UCONN, we are toast.
 
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#168      

mysterio2525

mysterio2525
mysterio2525
illini510 said:
I agree with your take on it. Sometimes, people tend to have delusions and subjectivity about how good they think they are. They are both good defenders but not sure I'd put either on the All Defensive 1st Team in the Big 10. Coleman has slipped in recent weeks whereas if this was earlier in the season, I would've thought he would've been a lock for All Defensive 1st Team
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I still think Coleman gets all big ten defensive team but he has slipped a bit for sure. He is asked to do a lot.

I am just so surprised why this team isnt good on defense. Coleman and TSJ are clearly plus to elite defenders. I think ty Rodgers is a good defender. And Harmon can be a good defender. Are domask and guerrier that bad? I know they aren't great but the sum is so much less than the parts. Top 50 defense shouldn't be that big a goal. This team should be top 25 imo on defense
 
#169      

aaeismacgychel

A
aaeismacgychel
Battle89 said:
LOL. Love the validation, but for the record I am not MLT...but now wondering about @DB11Headband ;)

View attachment 31602
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And I'll still contend that shooting over 60% from 3 at volume is not sustainable no matter how much confidence you have walking into a building, even when the shots are wide open (which by the way, most weren't that Minnesota made). As I said, in the game thread, you are more than free to disagree with me, but if shooting over 60% from three was as easy and repeatable as feeling confident when you enter the building, there'd be a hell of a lot of 60+% 3pt shooting teams.

And while I love LaTulip, prior to this game we actually had better 3pt defense in B10 games than Purdue has. Does that mean when teams play Purdue they walk into Mackey super confident they're going to torch down the nets from 3? In our last 8 games, we've allowed 33.0% shooting on 3pt shots. That's 3rd best in the B10. Okay but what about our last 5 games? 33.3%. That's 4th in the B10. Fine, but what about our past 3 games? 33.3% again. That can't be right... That doesn't quite fit the narrative, does it?

And I know the narrative of we can't play defense is a strong one, and there is much statistically to agree with that, but saying our 3pt defense before this game is terrible and everyone thinks they can walk in and shoot over 60% from 3 on us is absurd. Or if they do think that, they sure haven't put it into practice against us until today. Makes you wonder why that is when teams are so confident they can, doesn't it? I mean, maybe it could be because it's extremely difficult to shoot anywhere close to 60% at volume from 3 in a live action game? Just maybe? But hey, what do I know, I'm probably just making excuses for a bad defense. If Minnesota felt so confident from 3 with us giving up 33% from 3 the past month, Wisconsin likely has so much confidence now seeing Minnesota shoot 70%, it's going to be impossible for them to shoot anything under 140% from 3, isn't it? I mean that's how this works, right?
 
#170      

number1IlliniFan

number1IlliniFan
number1IlliniFan
Can we talk about Ty? Not his best game. They didn't even guard him when he was away from the rim. Anybody know his +/- tonight? Not sure he had 5 minutes in the 2nd half. Starts every game tho?
 
#171      

OB positive

O
OB positive
illini510 said:
I agree with your take on it. Sometimes, people tend to have delusions and subjectivity about how good they think they are. They are both good defenders but not sure I'd put either on the All Defensive 1st Team in the Big 10. Coleman has slipped in recent weeks whereas if this was earlier in the season, I would've thought he would've been a lock for All Defensive 1st Team
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Hawkins should be DPOY because nobody I mean nobody else can gaurd 1 thu 5 as effectively as he can. Ya he may not be a lock down in the post but how he can gaurd overall puts him over the top imo. Edey can defend the post and block shots but can't cover gaurds. Baldwin can shut down gaurds and get steals but can't gaurd bigs. No one else is out there as versatile as Hawkins.
 
#174      

PepeSilvia

P
PepeSilvia
derrick6 said:
We just aren’t strong (muscular) on the inside so opposing guards and bigs both have an easy time attacking in close.

Minny hit some shots that won’t always fall but that seems to be every team against us. We don’t get in their heads, imo. Teams are comfortable shooting against us.
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I don't even think it's a strength thing. We simply don't have any rim protectors.

Coleman is a great athlete but he is not explosive vertically. Then we have a bunch of 6'6 to 6'8 guys that aren't really shot blockers though I think they should be able to do a better job of contesting shots than they do currently.

This probably isn't popular but would kill to have Matthew Mayer with his head on straight playing the Guerrier role on this team. He could play defense and challenge shots when he was dialed in defensively and would be phenomenal in a more limited role offensively of just hitting spot up 3s, cutting, and crashing the glass.
 
#175      

Bogey99

Bogey99
Bogey99
aaeismacgychel said:
And I'll still contend that shooting over 60% from 3 at volume is not sustainable no matter how much confidence you have walking into a building, even when the shots are wide open (which by the way, most weren't that Minnesota made). As I said, in the game thread, you are more than free to disagree with me, but if shooting over 60% from three was as easy and repeatable as feeling confident when you enter the building, there'd be a hell of a lot of 60+% 3pt shooting teams.

And while I love LaTulip, prior to this game we actually had better 3pt defense in B10 games than Purdue has. Does that mean when teams play Purdue they walk into Mackey super confident they're going to torch down the nets from 3? In our last 8 games, we've allowed 33.0% shooting on 3pt shots. That's 3rd best in the B10. Okay but what about our last 5 games? 33.3%. That's 4th in the B10. Fine, but what about our past 3 games? 33.3% again. That can't be right... That doesn't quite fit the narrative, does it?

And I know the narrative of we can't play defense is a strong one, and there is much statistically to agree with that, but saying our 3pt defense before this game is terrible and everyone thinks they can walk in and shoot over 60% from 3 on us is absurd. Or if they do think that, they sure haven't put it into practice against us until today. Makes you wonder why that is when teams are so confident they can, doesn't it? I mean, maybe it could be because it's extremely difficult to shoot anywhere close to 60% at volume from 3 in a live action game? Just maybe? But hey, what do I know, I'm probably just making excuses for a bad defense. If Minnesota felt so confident from 3 with us giving up 33% from 3 the past month, Wisconsin likely has so much confidence now seeing Minnesota shoot 70%, it's going to be impossible for them to shoot anything under 140% from 3, isn't it? I mean that's how this works, right?
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Why so much focus on 3pt percentage only? Teams come in confident they will be able to score on us now and Minnesota put up 97! That fits the narrative perfectly.