Illinois 113, Jackson State 55 Postgame

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#201      
doowink
pruman91 said:
Mirk reminds me of the infamous high knees-low skills ref jeff running down the court........he really really does......./s......
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My brother and I as kids use to play with 2 neighborhood boys (around 9-10 years old at the time)...when it would snow a lot we would have snow drifts in our back yard....we would put on our boots go outside (no school) and have snow drift races....running through the drifts would require lifting your feet much higher than normal....my brother texted me last night and said that "Mirk looks like he's running a snow drift race"....laughed my a** off...but he was right and also brought back some fond memories...:LOL:
 
#203      
Brosky
doowink said:
Pretty impressive win, not just because we won by 50+…and maybe JSU wasn’t the highest quality opponent, but because of the way the (basically) 9-10 guys played together. Many here have been concerned (and rightly so) how bringing so many new faces together for the first time, how would they mesch and how quickly would they play together…what I saw last night was a group that looked like they had played together for quite some time (especially offensively)…everyone seemed comfortable playing their position and knew where their team mates were on the floor…sure there’s room for improvement…better free throws…need some more work on defense (especially the zone)…but with some improvement what will this team look like in January??….color me Orange
Jim Carrey Flirting GIF
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in this context, I am still enthused about Jake's contribution. He started the game, played starters' minutes. had zero turnnovers, and scored 13. When Petro and Stoy are healthy, I'm sure Jake's minutes will decrease, but he's still going to be an integral part of this team's success.
 
#204      
Brosky
Jackson State wasn't very good (probably a competitive D2 or D3 team,) but they did throw a zone at us; that may have been useful practice.
 
#205      
21ChampaignSt
OrangeKrush1981 said:
I prefer that people express themselves.
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According to research, one of the biggest issues with communication on social platforms is this strange, irresistible urge to control what others say. There's really no redeeming qualities in doing that.

As for the game, I can appreciate that competitive people or people in leadership look for things to improve and problems to fix. Or pragmatic people might question the competition.

But this was a very very good performance regardless of our competition. The ball movement, the shot making, the rebounding were outstanding. And we're only going to get better as the year goes on.

I do have some questions still but they passed this first test with flying colors.

Side note: one of my favorite plays was Tomi pump faking and stepping in and taking a jumper. I know we don't want to rely on mid range jumpers but having the ability to do that on hard close outs is lethal.
 
#207      
CrazyIlliniLady
grue2 said:
I'm not sure why people conflate observations for improvement with unhappiness, or a lack of excitement. Part of my enjoyment of the game is watching the details of execution vs. just the results.
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Maybe lead with the positives. Most of us can accept constructive/fair criticisms if they are tempered with some well-deserved praise for what was clearly an exciting start to the season. I'll help you: Start with this: "The two freshmen starters both overperformed for freshmen. Mirkovich is so much fun to watch with his infectious enthusiasm. Keaton Wagler, especially in the second half, was very impressive. Tomi and Kylan did exactly what we expected them to do, and Jake Davis and Hummer had the best games I've ever seen from either of them. Now, when you add in your nit-picky criticisms, they're much more palatable.
 
#208      
Illini in Italy
CrazyIlliniLady said:
Maybe lead with the positives. Most of us can accept constructive/fair criticisms if they are tempered with some well-deserved praise for what was clearly an exciting start to the season. I'll help you: Start with this: "The two freshmen starters both overperformed for freshmen. Mirkovich is so much fun to watch with his infectious enthusiasm. Keaton Wagler, especially in the second half, was very impressive. Tomi and Kylan did exactly what we expected them to do, and Jake Davis and Hummer had the best games I've ever seen from either of them. Now, when you add in your nit-picky criticisms, they're much more palatable.
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I really, really appreciate the wit - well played CrazyIlliniLady (I am married to a distant relative of yours I believe, she just goes by Crazy Lady though).
 
#209      
From the cheap seats
I grew up watching Walt Frazier play at SIU. You would leave the game thinking he played a decent game and then be a little surprised that he ended up with 18 points, 8 rebounds, 8 assists and 4 steals. Not comparing the freshman Wagler to the NBA Hall of Famer other than they both have a smoothness to their game that is kind of deceptive in that when the game ends, they have quietly filled up the stat sheet. That doesn't even count the ways they have contributed that coaches value but are not reflected in the box score. He's going to make some freshman mistakes, but he seems like the kind of player that won't make the same mistake repeatedly.
 
#210      
OrangeBlue98
pruman91 said:
Mirk reminds me of the infamous high knees-low skills ref jeff running down the court........he really really does......./s......
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My son noticed that as well. He just said Mirk doesn’t look really fluid as a runner. Perhaps the Illini track coaches can consult with him to get his running form smoothed out.

That kid is a player, though. Really excited to watch him develop this season. Has a lot of tools and seems to be a kid who wants to get better. He has a bright future. Same for Wagler. Love the maturity both have for such young players.
 
#211      
BrownTown
From the cheap seats said:
I grew up watching Walt Frazier play at SIU. You would leave the game thinking he played a decent game and then be a little surprised that he ended up with 18 points, 8 rebounds, 8 assists and 4 steals. Not comparing the freshman Wagler to the NBA Hall of Famer other than they both have a smoothness to their game that is kind of deceptive in that when the game ends, they have quietly filled up the stat sheet. That doesn't even count the ways they have contributed that coaches value but are not reflected in the box score. He's going to make some freshman mistakes, but he seems like the kind of player that won't make the same mistake repeatedly.
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That's a great way to describe how I feel about Tomi's game. They don't force touches, he doesn't need a high usage. He just plays within the scheme of the offense and seems to have the quietest 18/11 game night in and night out.
 
#212      
Combo
BrownTown said:
That's a great way to describe how I feel about Tomi's game. They don't force touches, he doesn't need a high usage. He just plays within the scheme of the offense and seems to have the quietest 18/11 game night in and night out.
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Tomislav is like Tim Duncan (not saying he's that good). Not super explosive but just really fundamentally sound. Z would be well-served to watch the way his brother plays.
 
#213      
BrownTown
Combo said:
Tomislav is like Tim Duncan (not saying he's that good). Not super explosive but just really fundamentally sound. Z would be well-served to watch the way his brother plays.
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Oh my goodness....I didn't see it.

That's a phenomenal play style comp. Man...the way he moves is so confined --no wasted movement--
Clean shooting stroke


Obviously, Tim is maybe the best 4 man ever so Tomi is not him. Don't want anyone saying we are hyperbolic. But his movement, court vision...
Great comp Combo.
 
#214      
blackdog
Combo said:
Tomislav is like Tim Duncan (not saying he's that good). Not super explosive but just really fundamentally sound. Z would be well-served to watch the way his brother plays.
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I know we aren't comparing directly but Timmy was actually a pretty great athlete. His nickname seems to fool a lot of people into thinking he couldn't be explosive/spectacular.

 
#215      
BrownTown
blackdog said:
I know we aren't comparing directly but Timmy was actually a pretty great athlete. His nickname seems to fool a lot of people into thinking he couldn't be explosive/spectacular.

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Absolutely, I just meant the comparison of his economy of movement. Comfortability with the ball at the top of the key, vision, willing passer, etc. He just has a smoothness to him.

If Tomi had similar comparables in as many ways as to deserve a 1 for 1 comp....He wouldn't be at Illinois lol You are right to point this out BlackDog
 
#216      
blackdog
BrownTown said:
Absolutely, I just meant the comparison of his economy of movement. Comfortability with the ball at the top of the key, vision, willing passer, etc. He just has a smoothness to him.

If Tomi had similar comparables in as many ways as to deserve a 1 for 1 comp....He wouldn't be at Illinois lol You are right to point this out BlackDog
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I can see the play style comparison, just had to stick up for Timmy :)
 
#217      
Combo
BrownTown said:
Oh my goodness....I didn't see it.

That's a phenomenal play style comp. Man...the way he moves is so confined --no wasted movement--
Clean shooting stroke


Obviously, Tim is maybe the best 4 man ever so Tomi is not him. Don't want anyone saying we are hyperbolic. But his movement, court vision...
Great comp Combo.
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I always thought of Duncan as more a Center, but they liked calling him a PF so they could argue he was the best ever at the position (he would merely be top 10 or so if called a Center).

Of course if you played him with big man, you got to designate one as the PF and the other as the C. But he did an awful lot of his work in the pivot.
 
#219      
NarrowJ
Brosky said:
Jackson State wasn't very good (probably a competitive D2 or D3 team,) but they did throw a zone at us; that may have been useful practice.
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Idk about D2 or D3, they’re picked by many to win their conf:

www.midmajorbasketball.com

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They have a former McD AA and another top 100 kid, so there’s talent there. Williams has done well at JSU (37-17 conf record), but who knows, maybe they’ll lack in some other dept (team chemistry, etc)
 
#220      
EyeoftheIllini
Probably mentioned (haven’t read much of thread), but I was looking at box score and didn’t realize Jakstys had 9 rebounds. Granted the competition wasn’t very good with little size, but pretty good in just 11 minutes. Good for him. Morez only had 8 in 16 minutes in his first game against EIU last year. How long until Jason wants to start shooting 3s?
 
#221      
Illinisnake
EyeoftheIllini said:
Probably mentioned (haven’t read much of thread), but I was looking at box score and didn’t realize Jakstys had 9 rebounds. Granted the competition wasn’t very good with little size, but pretty good in just 11 minutes. Good for him. Morez only had 8 in 16 minutes in his first game against EIU last year. How long until Jason wants to start shooting 3s?
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Never understood why people didn't he would never get minutes. Eventually as an upperclassmen, he should get some minutes. I just don't see him being THAT awful.
 
#223      
Combo
Illinisnake said:
Never understood why people didn't he would never get minutes. Eventually as an upperclassmen, he should get some minutes. I just don't see him being THAT awful.
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I agree with you. He moves well, has decent skills and has put on significant good weight. Different class than our previous project big man who transferred away.

I think next year is he starts to get meaningful minutes in games that matter.
 
#224      
grue2
CrazyIlliniLady said:
Maybe lead with the positives. Most of us can accept constructive/fair criticisms if they are tempered with some well-deserved praise for what was clearly an exciting start to the season. I'll help you: Start with this: "The two freshmen starters both overperformed for freshmen. Mirkovich is so much fun to watch with his infectious enthusiasm. Keaton Wagler, especially in the second half, was very impressive. Tomi and Kylan did exactly what we expected them to do, and Jake Davis and Hummer had the best games I've ever seen from either of them. Now, when you add in your nit-picky criticisms, they're much more palatable.
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Thank you for the constructive feedback (seriously).

From my perspective, I did lead with some very positive comments. Hum and Jake having solid games and filling their roles is a big improvement. I even mentioned twice that the offense was much smoother with Jake. What I did not include was all of the flowery hype. I find it overstated to the point that I would not trust anything else written.

Maybe a way to see the difference is to parallel the two writing styles to slapstick vs. dry humor. One is there if you look at what is actually said. The other is in your face, you can't miss it. Both are valid forms. An example is my question of "I'm not sure why people conflate observations for improvement with unhappiness, or a lack of excitement?" If considered, it is actually a statement pointing out that there is no logical conclusion between the two. It is presented as a question to soften the tone; understated vs. an argument provoking "You are wrong to conflate the two."

I accept that most people in this forum make orange-tinted comments all the way. If that is what makes them happy, go for it. It isn't hurting anyone. I hope that others are open enough to accept that there are those of us with more analytic/tempered views. That doesn't make us any less passionate about the team. Some of the replies (and likes) to my posts make it clear that I'm not alone. I do put up an initial warning so that those who only want the glow can skip the note; I won't be offended. I also won't complain about the blind rah-rah notes.

Now back to our regularly scheduled Illini discussions.
 
#225      
EyeoftheIllini
Illinisnake said:
Never understood why people didn't he would never get minutes. Eventually as an upperclassmen, he should get some minutes. I just don't see him being THAT awful.
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Hard to really get a good read given the competition and its lack of height, but he didn’t look totally out of place. Still not sure he’ll ever get much in the way of significant minutes. I seem to remember because of injury/illness and foul trouble there were 1 or 2 games we tried to use Lieb against real competition and he was not up for it. Again, just one game against inferior competition, but I think Jakstys could get to that point where he can play some minutes in situations like that at least and not kill us.
 
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