Illinois 20, Maryland 17 Postgame

#226      
ChiefGritty
illini0440 said:
I think my favorite part of this debate is the JB should be getting more carries since he’s the prototypical Bret running back! As if Bret isn’t the head coach with final say in the depth chart lol

I’m not saying right or wrong on the more Carries either way, it’s just funny to me
Click to expand...
I have no doubt the tale of Montee Ball will have been told to Barnett (don't tell me how old JB was when Ball played at Wisconsin, I don't want to know)

The young upstart in a three-headed monster with James White (read: Laughery) and John Clay (read: Anderson), who then took over as feature back and was a two-time All-American and top NFL draft pick.
 
#227      
lstewart53x3
FloridaMan said:
Strawman. No one is saying Barnett should get more carries than AL or be the featured back. Literally no one has said that.
Click to expand...

Huh? Literally this conversation started because a poster said exactly that. Here was the first post about AL/JB:

Dear Barry,

If you are determined to establish the run on 1st downs (duh we know)......may we suggest Javari Barnett?

Sincerely,

Everyone With Eyes
Click to expand...

That is an argument to replace AL with JB as the featured back. And if you don’t believe that’s what he actually meant, well, here’s the same poster a few posts later:

Laughery is a great change of pace back. I don't see him as a run establisher.

Barnett is a prototype RB. It's time to get past whatever "ball security" issues we haven't seen and give him the ball 20 times per game.

Laughery 3rd down back. Jordan Anderson for some short yardage and rest spelling.

But hey...I'm no Barry Lunney Jr......
Click to expand...

Even if you said:

But the guy is getting 5 carries a game and doing work with them. He should be getting double, 2.5x that.
Click to expand...

Right now, Laughery gets 11 carries a game. Jordan Anderson gets 5 carries a game. That’s 16 carries a game between the two. If JB got 2-2.5x more carries per game than he’s getting now, he’d be at 10-12 carries per game. That would take JA down to what, 3 carries a game? And Laughery would be at 5’sh carries per game.

So not only did another poster argue for JB to get more carries than AL, but you did as well.
 
#229      
skyIdub
😂well I guess I’ll be upgrading my take a third time!
I thought it was Taco Bell meat warm, but maybe it’s more McDonalds coffee.

It’s somewhere between an overreaction to watching Laughery get stuffed on 1st down up the middle so many times yesterday, and an overreaction to JB’s big runs.

It’s probably fine right where it’s at, but my eye sees something special in JB and I hope they give him more chances to show it.
 
#230      
skyIdub
lstewart53x3 said:
Huh? Literally this conversation started because a poster said exactly that. Here was the first post about AL/JB:



That is an argument to replace AL with JB as the featured back. And if you don’t believe that’s what he actually meant, well, here’s the same poster a few posts later:



Even if you said:



Right now, Laughery gets 11 carries a game. Jordan Anderson gets 5 carries a game. That’s 16 carries a game between the two. If JB got 2-2.5x more carries per game than he’s getting now, he’d be at 10-12 carries per game. That would take JA down to what, 3 carries a game? And Laughery would be at 5’sh carries per game.

So not only did another poster argue for JB to get more carries than AL, but you did as well.
Click to expand...

So, again I was definitely arguing for more carries, particularly on 1st down, up the middle, establishing the run….but in a context of a run heavy offense which I thought was implied by the 20 carries for JB in a feature back role like the BB Wisco teams.
Not in the context of the current usage as you noted.

Maybe he doesn’t get big offers to transfer. Maybe we pay him. 🤷🏼‍♂️

I’d just like to see more of him in the types of runs that we’re given to Laughery yesterday.
 
#234      
FloridaMan
lstewart53x3 said:
Huh? Literally this conversation started because a poster said exactly that. Here was the first post about AL/JB:



That is an argument to replace AL with JB as the featured back. And if you don’t believe that’s what he actually meant, well, here’s the same poster a few posts later:



Even if you said:



Right now, Laughery gets 11 carries a game. Jordan Anderson gets 5 carries a game. That’s 16 carries a game between the two. If JB got 2-2.5x more carries per game than he’s getting now, he’d be at 10-12 carries per game. That would take JA down to what, 3 carries a game? And Laughery would be at 5’sh carries per game.

So not only did another poster argue for JB to get more carries than AL, but you did as well.
Click to expand...

Just speaking for myself, forgive me if I'm derailing the thread and I'll stop after this one, but you assume all things remain equal if JB gets more carries. Maybe an improved running game allows us to better control the ball and increase our time of possession, providing more offensive plays (giving our D more time to recover); we are 16th in the league in offensive plays and 15th in TOP. Maybe this gives us more chances for success in a challenging stretch of games upcoming?

None of us knows anything for sure. But acting like posters are crazy to want a few more carries for Barnett is kinda crazy too. No, I'm not advocating for 20 lol. It doesn't have to be one extreme to the other.

It's a great problem to have and debate right? Three great backs and a super bright future if everyone sticks around and Valentine comes back healthy. Obviously the coaches know more than us. We see the team once per week. But IMO a few more JB runs has a solid chance of making our offense better.
 
#236      
lstewart53x3
FloridaMan said:
Just speaking for myself, forgive me if I'm derailing the thread and I'll stop after this one, but you assume all things remain equal if JB gets more carries. Maybe an improved running game allows us to better control the ball and increase our time of possession, providing more offensive plays (giving our D more time to recover); we are 16th in the league in offensive plays and 15th in TOP. Maybe this gives us more chances for success in a challenging stretch of games upcoming?

None of us knows anything for sure. But acting like posters are crazy to want a few more carries for Barnett is kinda crazy too. No, I'm not advocating for 20 lol. It doesn't have to be one extreme to the other.

It's a great problem to have and debate right? Three great backs and a super bright future if everyone sticks around and Valentine comes back healthy. Obviously the coaches know more than us. We see the team once per week. But IMO a few more JB runs has a solid chance of making our offense better.
Click to expand...

Here is every response in defense of Laughery. Keep in mind that quite a few of these are a direct response to a post advocating for 20 carries a game for JB and for him to become the featured back. Could you please point out which of these posts act like you're crazy?

He broke one big run and otherwise had 5 carries for 16 yards. He's definitely good enough to play but let's not act like hes miles ahead of Laughery yet. Higher ceiling for sure but Laughery and Anderson have definitely earned their role with good all around play beyond just running the ball.

Edit to add Laughery averaging 6.9 ypc coming in. Dude has just been good this year.
Click to expand...
Laughery’s averaging 6.9 yards per carry on the season. He had 13 carries for 123 yards (9.5 yards per carry) against Oregon last week.

Yes, you’re no Barry Lunney Jr.
Click to expand...
The playbook gets significantly smaller when JB is in the game
Click to expand...
I noticed Oregon keying on that last week.

"If 24 is in the game it's going to him"
Click to expand...
Not even necessarily that. He has just struggled to retain stuff so it has to be simple stuff when he’s in. Pass pro is also a problem. Also if you listen to Bret’s post game presser he said he has a RB that would have scored there instead of taking a knee like Jordan did and thats why the other RB wasn’t in the game…..he ain’t talking about Aiden lol
Click to expand...
Barnett is good, but he did rush for 2 or fewer yards on 4 of his 6 carries today.

We're kinda teetering on the edge of all the good plays are because of the players and all the bad plays are because the coaches are dumb here today.
Click to expand...
It's not a knock on JB that we've got talented RB's with lots of meaningful experience ahead of him. Hopefully he knows that, sticks around and has a great second year assuming he continues limited PT this season
Click to expand...
Laughery has been outstanding and consistent. He’s been much more durable and dependable this year. There’s a reason he’s getting more carries than Barnett, but the board knows more than the coaches!
Click to expand...
Laughery has been great this year. He hits the hole hard and has the speed to break big runs. He’s been running very strong this year and is always falling forward to get more yards.

Barnett is very good and should have a spot in the rotation but he doesn’t need to be the feature back. Laughery, Barnett and Anderson is a good rotation. We have speed and power.
Click to expand...
 
#237      
HereSoIDontGetFined
ChiefGritty said:
A favorite stat of mine:

From Mike White's arrival in 1980 to 1995 we won at least 3 Big Ten games 15 times in 16 seasons.

Ron Guenther refused to acknowledge that Lou Tepper had lost all credibility after 1995 and allowed the program, recruiting and roster completely collapse, a hole RG never charted a path out of.

From 1996 to 2020 we won at least 3 Big Ten games just 8 times in the next 25 seasons.

As of today, we have won at least 3 Big Ten games in all six of Bielema's seasons at the helm.

Josh Whitman and Bret Bielema have, at long last, de-Guentherized Illinois Football.
Click to expand...
Maybe not a topic for this thread, but is Josh Whitman the best AD Illinois has ever had? Is it even close at this point?
 
#239      
ChiefGritty
HereSoIDontGetFined said:
Maybe not a topic for this thread, but is Josh Whitman the best AD Illinois has ever had? Is it even close at this point?
Click to expand...
When you consider the institutional mess we were previously, Whitman, Robert Jones, and Tim Killeen deserve so, so much credit, and that goes beyond athletics.

In an incredibly challenging time for higher ed (sports included of course), the University of Illinois is as well positioned as it ever has been to be robust against the challenges of the future, whatever form they may take. THAT'S leadership.
 
#240      
ILLI die hard
My own personal gripe is not with which RB runs the ball A.L. or J. B. even J. Anderson. Its that there is only 1 in the backfield without any fake or mis direction play, the Defense can pretty much key on that one back. Put 2 RB''s in the backfield sets up better looks for the Offense to use RB''s to run, block or take short passes. Just my own bugaboo to yell at the TV.
 
#241      
skyIdub
lstewart53x3 said:
Here is every response in defense of Laughery. Keep in mind that quite a few of these are a direct response to a post advocating for 20 carries a game for JB and for him to become the featured back. Could you please point out which of these posts act like you're crazy?
Click to expand...

Well, I attempted to clarify what I was saying with regards to 20 carries per game and “become the featured back”.
Apparently we are ignoring that so we can continue arguing. 🤷🏼‍♂️
 
#242      
zentrails
ILLI die hard said:
My own personal gripe is not with which RB runs the ball A.L. or J. B. even J. Anderson. Its that there is only 1 in the backfield without any fake or mis direction play, the Defense can pretty much key on that one back. Put 2 RB''s in the backfield sets up better looks for the Offense to use RB''s to run, block or take short passes. Just my own bugaboo to yell at the TV.
Click to expand...
not saying you are wrong, but we didn't pay Houser all that money to just hand the ball off every play.
And I wanted to see a lot more JB running the ball before we beat Oregon and improved our bowl changes substantially (not to mention the near miraculously quick return of Houser).
 
#243      
lstewart53x3
skyIdub said:
Well, I attempted to clarify what I was saying with regards to 20 carries per game and “become the featured back”.
Apparently we are ignoring that so we can continue arguing. 🤷🏼‍♂️
Click to expand...
Sure, you later clarified what you meant. My post wasn't about your later clarification, it simply highlighted responses to your original post.
 
#244      
Subortus
CogDog said:
Another year of weight room and Heckel will be good. He is in the right place so often, but just can’t bring guys down or be the first one to do so.
Click to expand...
Too many of our players in the secondary either try to arm-tackle high up on the runner or, alternatively, throw their shoulder/body at the runner's legs. Whatever happened to tackling below the runner's waist by driving into his legs and wrapping them up?
 
#247      
zentrails
Dan said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/2116969634389758221
Click to expand...
Glad to see Feagin get on that list. He had some nice catches with decent YAC plus he made the TD saving tackle on that first MD interception, eventually setting us up for the goal line fumble recovery. They eventually got a TD but that tackle gave us some early momentum. His best game for us at TE so far IMO.
 
#248      
Point-Illinois
ILLI die hard said:
My own personal gripe is not with which RB runs the ball A.L. or J. B. even J. Anderson. Its that there is only 1 in the backfield without any fake or mis direction play, the Defense can pretty much key on that one back. Put 2 RB''s in the backfield sets up better looks for the Offense to use RB''s to run, block or take short passes. Just my own bugaboo to yell at the TV.
Click to expand...
We actually did this as recently as last week. (Not sure about this week with KH back)

We ran 5 multi-back plays (one of them was a 3 RB set) against Oregon.

May have been due to our backup QBs being in and the plays available to them, but Lunney has it in his bag.
 
Back