Illinois #3 in AP Poll

NarrowJ said:

I think people (including me) have crashed out too hard over the 'Superstar' comment. Probably just meant his play was promising at times early on, and as the season wore on he faded a good bit.

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This. Your two sentences explained my thoughts better than the book that I wrote and is exactly what I meant.

I applied that thought on DGL(at the time) and aimed it at people who have players 8, 9, 10, 11, etc as major contributors based on games vs FDU and Penn. This is the exact point where we were at with DGL when it comes to Brown, Williams, etc. Heck, I'm even putting Vaaks in this boat. What he accomplished in meaningless games at Providence means absolutely nothing because this is the first pressure cooker game that he's played in. No opposing fans camped out to get tickets to a game with Providence in it. We're the #3 team in the county and if we lose, courts will be stormed. That's the heat and pressure that our boys are under. It's going to happen tonight, it'll happen vs Duke, it'll happen vs UCONN and it'll happen vs Missouri. I'm only pointing out the November/December gauntlet because I sure as heck hope that Mirk is back soon to take the pressure off.

We need to see this play out before we start slotting guys in as rotational pieces. That starts tonight. After tonight, we're going to have a MUCH better grasp of what we have and triple those opinions after our game in Cameron.

Thank you for clarifying a point that I should have been much, much clearer in presenting.

NarrowJ said:

I think people (including me) have crashed out too hard over the 'Superstar' comment. Probably just meant his play was promising at times early on, and as the season wore on he faded a good bit.

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The whole discussion is really vintage Loyalty in both directions. In both accurately pointing out the (fun, charming, good) tendency of the board to mint young players as superstars based on limited flashes against cupcakes and also the (bad, unfortunate, toxic) tendency of the board to denigrate and talk down anyone who transfers away.

DGL was born a fun, microwave college guard. Always was, always will be. Liked watching him here and I wish him all the best every night after this one. He's a true crazy person, he'll be out for blood tonight, do not let him get cooking.

aaeismacgychel said:

I recall people really liking the energy DGL brought, his effort, and his buy in to the program. That he was a good energy guy that gave his all. But there was also understanding he was the 8th best guy on the team. A good bench/role player for us but not a superstar. I think fans were more excited about him as an upperclassman for us especially if he took a similar leap as he did between freshman and sophomore seasons not as an All-American candidate as a sophomore.

I was just busting your chops saying DGL was a superstar with us which is quite the take. That said I do get behind liking the energy players. I absolutely loved freshman Sencire Harris for example. Was my favorite part of that team for similar reasons, but very much not a superstar.

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I should have never used the term superstar. The better term was many posters/fans feeling on the arc he had, early in the season, vs beanbags(the EIUs of the world). He was pegged as a rotational piece with upside because of those games. Unfortunately, the upside didn't happen here and he flamed out for us. Expectations for him, fair or not, were set too high, too soon based on data that was irrationally incomplete.

My only point was let's take the temperature down on our depth with these young guys. Zens and Brown looked phenomenal vs FDU and Penn. Add the Williams perceived rocket launch after Penn. Those are three players that have been put in that DGL picture. They've been painted into the important contributors corner, with that high development arc(delete Superstar debacle) based on one low major and one mid major game.

Tonight, the first litmus test will be given. I'd HATE for any/all of them to struggle, then have the same exact fans that built them up, tear them down. This board is notorious for overreactions and this situation wreaks of the possibility.

That was all I was getting at.

Second place is 1st loser said:

I should have never used the term superstar. The better term was many posters/fans feeling on the arc he had, early in the season, vs beanbags(the EIUs of the world). He was pegged as a rotational piece with upside because of those games. Unfortunately, the upside didn't happen here and he flamed out for us. Expectations for him, fair or not, were set too high, too soon based on data that was irrationally incomplete.

My only point was let's take the temperature down on our depth with these young guys. Zens and Brown looked phenomenal vs FDU and Penn. Add the Williams perceived rocket launch after Penn. Those are three players that have been put in that DGL picture. They've been painted into the important contributors corner, with that high development arc(delete Superstar debacle) based on one low major and one mid major game.

Tonight, the first litmus test will be given. I'd HATE for any/all of them to struggle, then have the same exact fans that built them up, tear them down. This board is notorious for overreactions and this situation wreaks of the possibility.

That was all I was getting at.

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We have to remember this entire team spent the summer build a team modus operandi centered on a potential National Player of the Year coming off a 13/8/2 Final Four freshman season billed to be a preeminent scorer, rebounder, and playmaker this year.

I'm astounded by how much stock is being put into home buy games. Are we forgeting what the Mingo brothers did to us just a few weeks ago? That was an unranked Baylor team projected in the lower half of the Big 12. We're playing a near Top 15 national team from that same conference at their house.

What gives me hope is Andrej performed at an elite level vs. several marquee opponents last year (including this TTU program). I hope he can play to those strengths against an undersized team where there is no Mara or Morez guarding the paint or perimeter.