Illinois 64, VCU 46 POSTGAME

#151      

illini8507

illini8507
illini8507
If Baylor plays like they are capable for 40 mins they blow out vcu. You can make arguments all day like that about any team in the NCAA. The thing is, it's amateur sports, nobody plays to their potential for the full game. Being able to play to your potential for the longest time tells a lot about how good your team is on any given night vs the other team just as much as the talent level on the court.

Yesterday we played to our potential longer, and had more talent on the court. The result is an 18 point victory on a neutral court.
 
#152      

Rowdypkunk

R
Richmond, VA
Rowdypkunk
Newman said:
Fair enough. It would be the worst high major conference or the best mid major but it probably doesn't make much of a difference in how you label it. They've been respectable for the past few years and VCU has been a big reason why. I'd expect 2-3 A10 teams to make the dance this year, and for our sake, hopefully VCU is one of them.
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I believe we will get our act together & bounce back.... As I mentioned on one of the other threads.... VCU was 8-5 last year after conference play and had lost 3 in a row to Ga. Tech, Fla. State & Cincy... and we came back.... made the A10 Championship game for the 4th time in a row.... and made the NCAA Tourney again, beat Oregon State before losing to Oklahoma.

So far we are 6-2... with our only losses being to a Top 10 team in Baylor and a pretty good team in Illinois..... And we also have 2 wins over Power 5 teams (albeit St. Johns & LSU)... last year we didn't even have that at this time.
 
#153      

Rowdypkunk

R
Richmond, VA
Rowdypkunk
Illininer said:
I don't know, but maybe Illinois had a little something to do with how VCU played yesterday. :noidea:
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You would be correct on that.... You guys showed up to play.... we didn't. Had we shown up to play, or had you guys not shown up to play... who knows what the result would've been.

Illinijose said:
"I still think, if we played up to our potential all 40 minutes against Baylor, we could've snuck out a win.... and if we had showed up to play against you guys, we could've won."

That is a tough point to make when you lose by 18 at a neutral site. Illini have a lot of talent and the coach is trying to figure out how to make the pieces fit. The results speaks for itself.
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I mean if you want to go that route.... I could make a case that you shouldn't have beaten us.... after losing AT HOME to Winthrop is 4-3 with no other good wins besides Illinois.... So if you want to go that route... I can too. Also, you don't see us scheduling D-II schools either like McKendree.

We had an 8 pt lead on Baylor at half... and held the lead up until about 8 mins to go in the game before we let it slip away. So yeah... if we played up to our potential all 40 minutes, we could've snuck out a win against Baylor.... am I saying that we are better team than Baylor? Not a chance... yesterday proved that.... but that still doesn't take away from the fact that we had a chance to beat Baylor.... and we didn't.

Again, I wasn't trying to start trouble or anything... I'm simply just stating a fact... that if we played up to our potential all 40 minutes against Baylor & against you guys... we could easily be 8-0.... and like Illini8507 said.... If Baylor played up to their potential all game they very easily could've blown us out. And like he said.... Y'all showed up to play last night & played to your potential longer... and therefore you got the win.
 
#154      

Ga65

G
Ga65
Defense is never given enough credit for a team having a bad day. WVA killed us with a defense for which we were not prepared. Believe we were prepared for this game. We also played some defense in this game. Was most impressed with reaction to bad calls at beginning of second half. Just played harder and let Groce do the complaining.
 
#155      

SummerofGeorge

S
SummerofGeorge
For all the heat that John Groce has taken for his in game coaching (and most of it has been deserved), I feel like he did a hell of a job in this game. Our guys looked very well prepared against a team that averaged 9 steals a game. We had great floor balance, played unselfishly, took care of the basketball, and what stood out most to me was how under control we were. I loved seeing JCL aggressiveness attacking the basket. Tracy is a more complete player than he ever was before his injuries which is a testament to both him and the coaching staff. Leron is becoming the player we all hoped he could become which is great to see. I really hope Thorne works his way back into shape because we will need both him and Mav to make a run at an NCAA bid. To me, the point guard situation will work itself out. I am not as down on Tate as some but I would also like to see TJL get more and more playing time as the year progresses as long as he is earning it.

It could all blow up next game, but give credit when credit is due - great ball game all the way around, coaches and players, against a pretty decent team away from home.
 
#156      

bredhartmann

B
Centralia, IL
bredhartmann
Idkhti37 said:
Honestly, I'm not trying to bait you into anything. I am legitimately wondering what you saw that he brought to the table today?

It's not that I don't want him to play because I think he's terrible. I don't want him to play because he acts like HE thinks he's terrible. He doesn't even try to drive or shoot anymore. I don't see how having a player who refuses to be aggressive offensively can help us. For all of TJL's "green-ness", at least he offers a potential upside offensively.
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I'll be honest I don't exactly remember posting this last night lol, didn't mean to come off as confrontational at all so sorry about that. Tate did a very nice job handling the press down the stretch when we pulled away in the game. I agree that TJL should see minutes before Tate but yesterday Tate was doing what he needed for us to win.
 
#157      

mhuml32

mhuml32
Cincinnati, OH
mhuml32
Rowdypkunk said:
We had an 8 pt lead on Baylor at half... and held the lead up until about 8 mins to go in the game before we let it slip away. So yeah... if we played up to our potential all 40 minutes, we could've snuck out a win against Baylor.... am I saying that we are better team than Baylor? Not a chance... yesterday proved that.... but that still doesn't take away from the fact that we had a chance to beat Baylor.... and we didn't.

Again, I wasn't trying to start trouble or anything... I'm simply just stating a fact... that if we played up to our potential all 40 minutes against Baylor & against you guys... we could easily be 8-0.... and like Illini8507 said.... If Baylor played up to their potential all game they very easily could've blown us out. And like he said.... Y'all showed up to play last night & played to your potential longer... and therefore you got the win.
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I'm not here to argue against the possibility of VCU beating Baylor, but more the plausibility. Your argument reminds me of hearing someone complain about losing money at the blackjack table. Yes, you would be highly successful against the dealer if you constantly received 21, but probability shows you are also likely to have hands that put you in a position to be less successful.

I've always believed each team has a few games where they play incredibly well for all 40 minutes, and then a few others where they play poorly almost the entire game. Really good teams can survive those really bad games, and almost every time will be successful at their absolute best, but it's a fallacy to believe your team should play optimally for all 40 minutes in each game. Again, I could be invincible at the blackjack table if only I avoided hands of 13 through 17, but they happen. I will judge Illinois, and all other teams, on how they perform when things are not going perfectly.
 
#158      

Illininer

I
Illininer
Rowdypkunk said:
You would be correct on that.... You guys showed up to play.... we didn't. Had we shown up to play, or had you guys not shown up to play... who knows what the result would've been.



I mean if you want to go that route.... I could make a case that you shouldn't have beaten us.... after losing AT HOME to Winthrop is 4-3 with no other good wins besides Illinois.... So if you want to go that route... I can too. Also, you don't see us scheduling D-II schools either like McKendree.

We had an 8 pt lead on Baylor at half... and held the lead up until about 8 mins to go in the game before we let it slip away. So yeah... if we played up to our potential all 40 minutes, we could've snuck out a win against Baylor.... am I saying that we are better team than Baylor? Not a chance... yesterday proved that.... but that still doesn't take away from the fact that we had a chance to beat Baylor.... and we didn't.

Again, I wasn't trying to start trouble or anything... I'm simply just stating a fact... that if we played up to our potential all 40 minutes against Baylor & against you guys... we could easily be 8-0.... and like Illini8507 said.... If Baylor played up to their potential all game they very easily could've blown us out. And like he said.... Y'all showed up to play last night & played to your potential longer... and therefore you got the win.
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There's a whole lot of "if's" involved in your posts.

Well, congrats anyways, you lost by 18 on a neutral court to a team that lost to Winthrop.
 
#159      

Illinijose

I
Illinijose
I was curious what was going to be the minimum required to get into the NCAA. For a Big Ten team going back 5 years it typically means the floor is a 9-9 record and 21 overall wins. Some exceptions are the 8-10 Minnesota in 2012 who had 21 wins and the 2010 PSU and Purdue teams who were both 9-9 in conference but just 19-14 overall.

It appears the trend lately is 21-22 wins and 10 conference wins. So to be safely in the tourney that appears to be the number. So a 10-8 record and finishing the non-conference with 10 wins, plus one BTT win will get us IMHO. A 9-9 BT record will likely mean more 2-3 BTT conference wins and winning 9-10 non-conference wins. Like most here I would like a higher seed and not sweating it on selection Sunday.
 
#160      

WesterveltVictoryCigar

WesterveltVictoryCigar
WesterveltVictoryCigar
Illinijose said:
I was curious what was going to be the minimum required to get into the NCAA. For a Big Ten team going back 5 years it typically means the floor is a 9-9 record and 21 overall wins. Some exceptions are the 8-10 Minnesota in 2012 who had 21 wins and the 2010 PSU and Purdue teams who were both 9-9 in conference but just 19-14 overall.

It appears the trend lately is 21-22 wins and 10 conference wins. So to be safely in the tourney that appears to be the number. So a 10-8 record and finishing the non-conference with 10 wins, plus one BTT win will get us IMHO. A 9-9 BT record will likely mean more 2-3 BTT conference wins and winning 9-10 non-conference wins. Like most here I would like a higher seed and not sweating it on selection Sunday.
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You're better off looking at how many quality wins and bad losses we have. We know Winthrop will be a bad loss. VCU could be a top 50 win, NCSU probably top 100. In conference, we look to have anywhere from 7-10 chances at top 50 wins and maybe 5 chances at bad losses. Get 4 or more of those good wins and avoid bad losses and we'll be fine. Without any bad losses that probably works out to 9 or 10 wins. Stumble with another bad loss and then you need to make up for it with another good win or two.
 
#161      

Dan

Dan
Admin
Dan
[YOUTUBE]S4caz9XhC1M[/YOUTUBE]
[YOUTUBE]vtBEW4W-Tk0[/YOUTUBE]
 
#162      

Newman

N
Newman
WesterveltVictoryCigar said:
You're better off looking at how many quality wins and bad losses we have. We know Winthrop will be a bad loss. VCU could be a top 50 win, NCSU probably top 100. In conference, we look to have anywhere from 7-10 chances at top 50 wins and maybe 5 chances at bad losses. Get 4 or more of those good wins and avoid bad losses and we'll be fine. Without any bad losses that probably works out to 9 or 10 wins. Stumble with another bad loss and then you need to make up for it with another good win or two.
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I was wrong about Winthrop but I'd still be willing to bet that NC State will be a top 50 team and without a doubt in the top 100. Too many good pieces there for them to be any worse than that but we'll see how good they can be with Yertseven. He's no ordinary freshman, and he's more experienced than most international players.
 
#164      

WesterveltVictoryCigar

WesterveltVictoryCigar
WesterveltVictoryCigar
Newman said:
I was wrong about Winthrop but I'd still be willing to bet that NC State will be a top 50 team and without a doubt in the top 100. Too many good pieces there for them to be any worse than that but we'll see how good they can be with Yertseven. He's no ordinary freshman, and he's more experienced than most international players.
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No doubt NCSU has considerable upside. And the ACC will be up there with the B12 as the #1 RPI league which will help them as well.
 
#165      

TCTORNADO

TCTORNADO
TCTORNADO
Newman said:
I was wrong about Winthrop but I'd still be willing to bet that NC State will be a top 50 team and without a doubt in the top 100. Too many good pieces there for them to be any worse than that but we'll see how good they can be with Yertseven. He's no ordinary freshman, and he's more experienced than most international players.
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Getting their best player, Maverick Rowan, back from a concussion will be huge for NC State. We got them at the right time.
 
#166      

Rowdypkunk

R
Richmond, VA
Rowdypkunk
mhuml32 said:
I'm not here to argue against the possibility of VCU beating Baylor, but more the plausibility. Your argument reminds me of hearing someone complain about losing money at the blackjack table. Yes, you would be highly successful against the dealer if you constantly received 21, but probability shows you are also likely to have hands that put you in a position to be less successful.

I've always believed each team has a few games where they play incredibly well for all 40 minutes, and then a few others where they play poorly almost the entire game. Really good teams can survive those really bad games, and almost every time will be successful at their absolute best, but it's a fallacy to believe your team should play optimally for all 40 minutes in each game. Again, I could be invincible at the blackjack table if only I avoided hands of 13 through 17, but they happen. I will judge Illinois, and all other teams, on how they perform when things are not going perfectly.
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Yes but there's 1 big difference in your comparison of blackjack to the game of basketball.

If I sit down at a blackjack table.... I can't control whether I get dealt a 21 or whether I get dealt a 16. Only thing I can control is whether I hit, stand or surrender... and how much I bet per hand.

However if I'm a team playing the game of basketball... when we have the ball... we can control whether we want to push the tempo of the game or not.... as can your team. We can also control whether we take the ball inside or live & die by the 3 like we did yesterday. On defense we can control whether we play zone or man, whether we switch on a screen or not, and to some extent whether we foul or not. Obviously refs will sometimes make calls that are wrong or questionable.... but for the most part... the players & coaches can control the game.

The players can control whether or not they go out there and give it their all & their head is in the game... or if they go out there and just go through the motions & are unfocused.

The players in a blackjack game can't control what cards they are dealt.
 
#167      

Lord Snow

Lord Snow
Lord Snow
Every time someone's teams loses it's "oh we didn't show up" "we didn't play our best, if we had..." "the other team got lucky" blah blah. I've never heard someone say their team played their best, or they really showed up to play, when they lose. Well maybe they did show up to play. Maybe they just got beat. Maybe the other is just that much better.

In reference to us against VCU, we won by 18 points and had about 16 minutes of that game where we tallied what? 12 points? You wanna play ifs? Well if we don't have two massive scoring droughts like that we might win by 40.
 
#168      

TCTORNADO

TCTORNADO
TCTORNADO
Lord Snow said:
Every time someone's teams loses it's "oh we didn't show up" "we didn't play our best, if we had..." "the other team got lucky" blah blah. I've never heard someone say their team played their best, or they really showed up to play, when they lose. Well maybe they did show up to play. Maybe they just got beat. Maybe the other is just that much better.

In reference to us against VCU, we won by 18 points and had about 16 minutes of that game where we tallied what? 12 points? You wanna play ifs? Well if we don't have two massive scoring droughts like that we might win by 40.
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VCU scoring 10 points in the last 13 minutes was pathetic.:D
 
#169      

CoalCity

C
St Paul, MN
CoalCity
Rowdypkunk said:
Yes but there's 1 big difference in your comparison of blackjack to the game of basketball.

If I sit down at a blackjack table.... I can't control whether I get dealt a 21 or whether I get dealt a 16. Only thing I can control is whether I hit, stand or surrender... and how much I bet per hand.

However if I'm a team playing the game of basketball... when we have the ball... we can control whether we want to push the tempo of the game or not.... as can your team. We can also control whether we take the ball inside or live & die by the 3 like we did yesterday. On defense we can control whether we play zone or man, whether we switch on a screen or not, and to some extent whether we foul or not. Obviously refs will sometimes make calls that are wrong or questionable.... but for the most part... the players & coaches can control the game.

The players can control whether or not they go out there and give it their all & their head is in the game... or if they go out there and just go through the motions & are unfocused.

The players in a blackjack game can't control what cards they are dealt.
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#170      

IlliniDent

IlliniDent
Chicago, IL
IlliniDent
Why do people care so much? It's nice to read a normal conversation from someone who knows the other team. They are ranked higher than us so why not be happy for our win and hope that VCU continues to improve. If they are only as good as they played us then it no longer is a good win for us...
 
#171      

Rowdypkunk

R
Richmond, VA
Rowdypkunk
Lord Snow said:
Every time someone's teams loses it's "oh we didn't show up" "we didn't play our best, if we had..." "the other team got lucky" blah blah. I've never heard someone say their team played their best, or they really showed up to play, when they lose. Well maybe they did show up to play. Maybe they just got beat. Maybe the other is just that much better.

In reference to us against VCU, we won by 18 points and had about 16 minutes of that game where we tallied what? 12 points? You wanna play ifs? Well if we don't have two massive scoring droughts like that we might win by 40.
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So are you saying that you guys didn't do the whole "If we had done this, or had done that" when you guys lost to Winthrop?... Cause I'm sure I could go look at y'all's game threads on Winthrop and find several cases where y'all did.

You're right every team does it.... however there have been times that I've said we played our best and just got flat out beat when we've lost before....

2 years ago when we played Villanova in the Barclays in November, When we played Michigan in the NCAA Tourney in 2013, The Butler game in the Final 4 in 2011, vs Oklahoma in 2008-09.... all of those games I said we just flat out got beat. Also none of those games were one or two possession games where one or two things could change the outcome of the game.

But in order to be able to say you played your best and just got beat.... you have to know what your best is. And let's be honest.... anyone who watched the game yesterday.... and watched our game against Baylor where we still could've played better..... knows that we did not play our best yesterday... plain and simple.
 
#173      

Rowdypkunk

R
Richmond, VA
Rowdypkunk
Second and Chalmers said:
You must be new ;)
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Lol, yes I'm new to these boards.... but not to posting on message boards about college basketball.... I know how fans react after losses, especially our own boards.

I remember Shaka's first year at VCU... we had a Fire Shaka thread going from some people.... and it picked back up his 2nd year when we lost all those conference games down the stretch.... of course after we went to the Final 4.... it went away for a while lol ;)
 
#174      

Serious Late

Serious Late
Peoria via Denver via Ann Arbor via Albuquerque vi
Serious Late
Rowdypkunk said:
Um yeah... it's called an exhibition game.... we're not allowed to schedule exhibition's against fellow D-I teams.... D-I schools can only do close door scrimmages with other D-I schools.... or Exhibition games with D-II or D-III schools.

You guys on the other hand scheduled a regular season game against a D-II school.
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But to be clear, we can get away with playing a D-2 school since we play in a high major conference. A-10 can't give up those games, since the conference season doesn't help boost SOS like it does a high major conference.
 
#175      

illini8507

illini8507
illini8507
Serious Late said:
But to be clear, we can get away with playing a D-2 school since we play in a high major conference. A-10 can't give up those games, since the conference season doesn't help boost SOS like it does a high major conference.
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In addition, it's not like our non-con schedule is devoid of tough games. 2 ranked power-5 teams on a neutral court in the preseason nit, a power-5 team in our annual ACC/B1G challenge game, a power-5 opponent on a neutral court in our annual bragging rights game vs missouri, and 2 more neutral court games vs mid-major/highmajor tweener schools in VCU and BYU.

If the AD wants to schedule a game vs a d2 school to give a hometown kid who's father was a fighting illini basketball player a chance to play at home in a building he grew up dreaming about, and his family the opportunity to see him play there then so be it. It says nothing about our team, especially considering it wasn't in any way a close game. We could have just scheduled some low major directional school for a tuneup and stomped them just the same. Either way it would do nothing for our resume.

Better than losing to Queens, exhibition or not
 
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