Illinois 73, Penn State 65 Postgame

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#326      
OrangeBlue98
21ChampaignSt said:
Huge Tomi fan. Thought he could be a potential All American this year. He's had a few good moments but so far he hasn't yet lived up to expectations this season. That's just a fact.

On the offensive end, he's not being asked to do as much as last year - not as many PnR's, not as many post entries, not as much facilitating, not as many opportunities. So, the offensive numbers are kind of easy for me to explain away. You could say the staff needs to get him more opportunities, but why? The offense has been humming. No reason to disrupt it.

But he is noticeably slower and less aggressive this year on defense and loose ball situations. Which, Tomi was never exactly known for his play on that end of the court, but it does seem to me that something is off. I remember TJ's first year here, when he would have a slow night on offense, he would kind of disappear in the other facets. Maybe that's happening a little bit? Or maybe it is still some lingering health issues?

Hoping that whatever it is improves throughout the year. Good, multidimensional Tomi makes us a hard(er) out.
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Not disagreeing that the offense has, overall, been rolling. But I'll still contend that an offense running well through Tomi is our best offense. When he's a top threat, our offense is extremely effective. A Tomi in top form just opens up so many additional options for this offense.

He's a difference-maker, and if he's playing really well our offense is virtually unstoppable.
 
#327      
TheDukeUIUC
Indy Illini Fan said:
I see a lot of they don’t know how to play without Wagler … And I agree …

That is a MAJOR problem … It’s January, one guy gets in foul trouble and all of a sudden we have no offense that isn’t chuck bad 3s or rely on offensive rebounds and putbacks ??

Who can handle the ball and run offense for this team when Wagler is out ?? Should already have this 💩 figured out and been practicing it …

And who’s in charge of OOTO and inbounds plays ??? They need to be relieved of duties … Bring in a coach who can teach these guys some plays that actually result in open or even just good looks and not shot clock violations or more late in the shot clock BS 3s because we didn’t run anything …
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This is my biggest red flag. Our offense looked unsteady early in the season and we blamed it on injuries and practicing together. In reality it's that we hadnt fully embraced Wagler becoming the engine for the offense, because the actions they run for anyone else initiating offense arent effective. There's been zero progress over the last two months of developing new actions for others to initiate. Our only game plan seems to be hope Wagler can play 40 minutes a game.
 
#328      
EmeraldCityIllini
GoodePodzMelendez said:
9 assists in 22 baskets is below adequate. We need 50 to 60% every game. 6 of the assists came from our two freshmen. Bam notched zero. Tomi with zero. Davis, Petro and AS had the other 3. Braden Smith is an assist machine. We need to do better. A lot better.
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We just need to go get the best assist man (literally) in college basketball history.

In all seriousness, this is a style thing. With our matchup hunting, it's never going to be crazy high team assist numbers.
 
#329      
My2Cents
We all watch the same game, yet we all see a different game. A win is a win. I'm more impressed with winning a game, one of our best players struggled, and another picked up his 4th foul 35 seconds into the second half, than I would have been if they won by 20 and Tomi had 20 points. To each their own. Bottom line, we won and it's on to the next one. Maybe it's a gambling issue and that's why some still get so upset with a victory ? ILL!!!!
 
#330      
CrazyIlliniLady
BryceHopkins said:
Serious question: why does the B1G Network employ LaPhonso Ellis? Aren’t there enough ex B1G players to chose from? His non stop, passive aggressive anti Illinois bias is just tiresome. Just go the F away already. I’m sure the ACC network, or wherever the heck a ND ex hooper would call home, could use an analyst. Thanks for telling me non stop how impressed you were by Mingo, while his team is losing by double digits and Illini have 2 freshmen with more points than him until his garbage time heater
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I still have a grudge against LaPhonso, and I can barely even remember why. Something to do with him telling the NCAA that Jimmy Collins gave him a pair of shoes and some McDonald's money, I think. I also thought he did a p*ss poor job announcing, but my bias against him may have influenced that. I did get a laugh out of his exchange with Kylan about what his favorite men's fragrance was. Interesting that he told Kylan exactly how to pronounce Jean Paul Gaultier yet he could barely pronounce the names on our roster,
 
#331      
I-L-L 1318
Our elite 8 team lost to PSU, although a much better PSU squad but still. A road B1G win always plays.
 
#332      
BoiseBaller
Indy Illini Fan said:
I see a lot of they don’t know how to play without Wagler … And I agree …

That is a MAJOR problem … It’s January, one guy gets in foul trouble and all of a sudden we have no offense that isn’t chuck bad 3s or rely on offensive rebounds and putbacks ??

Who can handle the ball and run offense for this team when Wagler is out ?? Should already have this 💩 figured out and been practicing it …

And who’s in charge of OOTO and inbounds plays ??? They need to be relieved of duties … Bring in a coach who can teach these guys some plays that actually result in open or even just good looks and not shot clock violations or more late in the shot clock BS 3s because we didn’t run anything …
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Wagler is a baller. He just goes and gets points. The only real difference in the offense when he is on the bench is that we don't have anyone else that can do that.

Look at the 7 points he scored to bump the lead back up. Drive in with a series of pivots for two, step back 3 off the dribble, another drive. Those aren't coming off anything other than clear out/iso ball and a kid making plays.

I do love the irony when you post the stats for Tomi that those get discounted, but when anyone calls out the offense as a whole, stats are quickly quoted despite all the one on one plays we see with our eyes.

Two camps, different perspectives I guess.
 
#333      
EmeraldCityIllini
BoiseBaller said:
Wagler is a baller. He just goes and gets points. The only real difference in the offense when he is on the bench is that we don't have anyone else that can do that.

Look at the 7 points he scored to bump the lead back up. Drive in with a series of pivots for two, step back 3 off the dribble, another drive. Those aren't coming off anything other than clear out/iso ball and a kid making plays.

I do love the irony when you post the stats for Tomi that those get discounted, but when anyone calls out the offense as a whole, stats are quickly quoted despite all the one on one plays we see with our eyes.

Two camps, different perspectives I guess.
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I think everyone agrees, one way or another, Tomi needs to be better.

I also think we all agree that the offense is iso heavy. It's just a matter of calling how effective is typically is.
 
#334      
EmpoweredIllini
BoiseBaller said:
Wagler is a baller. He just goes and gets points. The only real difference in the offense when he is on the bench is that we don't have anyone else that can do that.

Look at the 7 points he scored to bump the lead back up. Drive in with a series of pivots for two, step back 3 off the dribble, another drive. Those aren't coming off anything other than clear out/iso ball and a kid making plays.

I do love the irony when you post the stats for Tomi that those get discounted, but when anyone calls out the offense as a whole, stats are quickly quoted despite all the one on one plays we see with our eyes.

Two camps, different perspectives I guess.
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Yup, I think everyone agrees we need more out of Tomi.

But the difference you’re seeing in what gets highlighted statistically is sample size, where with Tomi it is a sample size of 3 games whereas when talking about the offense as a whole people are citing the entire season worth of data.
 
#335      
Big Jack
BryceHopkins said:
Serious question: why does the B1G Network employ LaPhonso Ellis? Aren’t there enough ex B1G players to chose from? His non stop, passive aggressive anti Illinois bias is just tiresome. Just go the F away already. I’m sure the ACC network, or wherever the heck a ND ex hooper would call home, could use an analyst. Thanks for telling me non stop how impressed you were by Mingo, while his team is losing by double digits and Illini have 2 freshmen with more points than him until his garbage time heater
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Wish he would go join Bardo on a beach in Mexico. Hate that smug cheaten lying jackass
 
#337      
IllinitripleJ
I believe Michigan is for real. What I find strange is why Landeborg did not go pro. He's only one year younger than Patrick Williams of the Bulls and Williams is in his 6th year with the Bulls! NBA scouts knew who he was so I doubt he really improved his draft stock by playing one more year with a Big 10 team. You also have the risk of injury by staying in college for one extra year. Who has the better frontcourt, the Bulls or Michigan? Williams, Buzalis & Vicevic vs Landborg, Morez J and Mara?
 
#338      
Barfolomew
I would call that a C- game by the Illini overall.

Weren't hitting shots and weren't flowing on offense, but decent defensively (outside a couple of bad breakdowns and subpar game from Tomi), and the rebounding numbers did not end up being as bad as it seemed watching live.
The rest of the B1G got another blueprint to use to attack us -- i.e., get Wagler out of the game -- but another winnable game ahead to work on that.

Also hope Brad recognizes that it is becoming increasingly difficult to keep Big Z off the floor.
22 min / game should be his baseline the rest of the way, barring foul issues.
 
#339      
TheodoreRex
Indy Illini Fan said:
I see a lot of they don’t know how to play without Wagler … And I agree …

That is a MAJOR problem … It’s January, one guy gets in foul trouble and all of a sudden we have no offense that isn’t chuck bad 3s or rely on offensive rebounds and putbacks ??

Who can handle the ball and run offense for this team when Wagler is out ?? Should already have this 💩 figured out and been practicing it …

And who’s in charge of OOTO and inbounds plays ??? They need to be relieved of duties … Bring in a coach who can teach these guys some plays that actually result in open or even just good looks and not shot clock violations or more late in the shot clock BS 3s because we didn’t run anything …
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Our BLOB and SLOB plays are straight trash- they are almost always just post a guy and lob the pass over the defender and just get the ball in.. We RARELY ever get a meaningful look off our plays
 
#341      
altgeld88
Got home from Philly at midnight warm and happy despite the mercury reading, went to bed, got up this morning, and looked a the postgame Board thread over breakfast. Imagine my surprise to discover that we suck. Observations:

1. Orange script throwbacks throughout my field of vision for two hours. Tranquil satisfaction: my life is now truly complete. 😍

2. It was a PSU home game for sure. 4,700 announced attendance but that seems heavy to me. Didn't seem much over 3k at the opening tip, then more people arrived, particularly in the high-rent seats. I guess 4,700 is possible. Anyway, it was PSU's gym and got quite loud on the occasions when they were able to cut the lead to 10.

3. The outcome was never in doubt from the opening tip. I mean never. After the ten min mark of the 1H not once did the fear "OMG, they're going to cut it to five" enter my amygdala, let alone the fear that they'd make it a one-possession game, let alone ever lead. It was over when Keaton fed Mirk to make it 7-0.

4. We shut down Mingo until the end, and he's the only reason why the winning margin wasn't ~ 12-15. We shut him down completely in the 1H: in foul trouble and he had a handful of assists and no points. He had five points 15 mins into the second half, and then 11 in the final 4:18.

5. PSU is not a bad team. It simply doesn't have the horses we do. They're well-coached and active on both ends. Ball movement was solid and opened some excellent looks from three for them. Not a lot of upside for them. In this era the program simply won't get the NIL bag unless a basketball-only patron with deep pockets appears. Mingo likely gone next season. They need more Mingos and probably won't get them.

6. I'm glad we have the horses. Lots of strong horses.

7. I was disappointed (gentle term) that I didn't get to see more of Wagler. I was pleased, however, that we had to figure out how to play without him running the offense last night against a BT bottom-dweller rather than next Sunday in IC. BAM's understandably out of practice there. Still, Keaton had 16 pts and three assists in only 20 mins. Mingo (also true frosh)? See (4).

8. Tomi? Who knows. Brad is supportive of him and I'm going out on a limb and assuming that he knows more about the care and feeding (and potential) of Tomi than I do. Hope he comes around. We need him. Z was fun to watch.

9. High Knees. Forty mins of watching High Knees. Glorious.

10. If you ever get a chance, see a game like this at the Palestra. As we walked back to the garage past Franklin Field next door, a back gate was open and we strolled in for a view. So much history in that stadium, built in 1895. As I noted to @Retro62 , it hosted the annual Penn-Cornell Thanksgiving Day football game for 70 years, which was for a time among the biggest college football games in America. Drew like 70-80,000 in the '40s.

Chills, standing in that place, dimly lit and as atmospheric as the Palestra, basking in the warmth of Victory Illinois Varsity.

I'm not worried that we'll fail to bring our A game next Sunday in Carver-Hawkeye.

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#344      
rmlsr
Indy Illini Fan said:
I see a lot of they don’t know how to play without Wagler … And I agree …

That is a MAJOR problem … It’s January, one guy gets in foul trouble and all of a sudden we have no offense that isn’t chuck bad 3s or rely on offensive rebounds and putbacks ??

Who can handle the ball and run offense for this team when Wagler is out ?? Should already have this 💩 figured out and been practicing it …

And who’s in charge of OOTO and inbounds plays ??? They need to be relieved of duties … Bring in a coach who can teach these guys some plays that actually result in open or even just good looks and not shot clock violations or more late in the shot clock BS 3s because we didn’t run anything …
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the office agree GIF by EditingAndLayout
 
#345      
Illinijoe
21ChampaignSt said:
Huge Tomi fan. Thought he could be a potential All American this year. He's had a few good moments but so far he hasn't yet lived up to expectations this season. That's just a fact.

On the offensive end, he's not being asked to do as much as last year - not as many PnR's, not as many post entries, not as much facilitating, not as many opportunities. So, the offensive numbers are kind of easy for me to explain away. You could say the staff needs to get him more opportunities, but why? The offense has been humming. No reason to disrupt it.

But he is noticeably slower and less aggressive this year on defense and loose ball situations. Which, Tomi was never exactly known for his play on that end of the court, but it does seem to me that something is off. I remember TJ's first year here, when he would have a slow night on offense, he would kind of disappear in the other facets. Maybe that's happening a little bit? Or maybe it is still some lingering health issues?

Hoping that whatever it is improves throughout the year. Good, multidimensional Tomi makes us a hard(er) out.
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Tomi absolutely has to be better or the ceiling for this team is way lower. He’s a huge part of why our offense can truly be the the best in the country and him scoring 0 and playing like garbage will really hurt.
 
#350      
Fan Since '70
Indy Illini Fan said:
I see a lot of they don’t know how to play without Wagler … And I agree …

That is a MAJOR problem … It’s January, one guy gets in foul trouble and all of a sudden we have no offense that isn’t chuck bad 3s or rely on offensive rebounds and putbacks ??

Who can handle the ball and run offense for this team when Wagler is out ?? Should already have this 💩 figured out and been practicing it …

And who’s in charge of OOTO and inbounds plays ??? They need to be relieved of duties … Bring in a coach who can teach these guys some plays that actually result in open or even just good looks and not shot clock violations or more late in the shot clock BS 3s because we didn’t run anything …
Click to expand...
Boswell, Petrovic and even Stojakovic need to be able to initiate offense besides mostly Wagler. Last year a lot of offense also ran through Ivisic who is a good passer and get Mirkovic many touches to help keep ball moving. No excuse for stagnant offense and too much iso when ball movement brings better shots.
 
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