I think part of Tomi not being part of the offense as much as we would like is because of Wagler. KJ ran the pnr with Tomi looking to him as his main outlet keeping Tomi more involved and giving him more opportunities to shoot or dish. Wagler is more ball centric and looking to create his own shot more and not looking for just one ball outlet. Its a good problem to have but we haven't yet figured how to get both things going at the same time.
Illinois 73, Penn State 65 Postgame
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Big Jack
- Decatur
-I thought Kylan played well (though didn't like his decision to shoot well before time was up just before halftime- that can't happen).
-I'd like to see Tomi used in the high post/elbow more often- get him the ball there and allow him to use his strengths- which include passing and using his size to set screens or allow for hand offs. If anything- just to try and get him going or get some confidence.
-I'd like to see Big Z start over Tomi- mostly as a way to compliment his effort and how hard he's playing.
-My focus in practice would be transition defense- as I think that's been one of our biggest weaknesses- some of that is happening because of our aggressive offensive rebound focus- so I suppose I'm not sure what the answer is for this one.
-When Keaton isn't in- Kylan and Petrovic HAVE to push the pace more- the ball sticks too much- it ALWAYS moves faster when it's passed up instead of dribbled.
-While I don't think Big Z is a great post presence- I do think he needs to get more touches there- even if he just kicks it back out when he's doubled. He's shown significant progress at his post moves this season- especially being more physical.
-While our spacing is good- most of our actions are 2 man game (similar to the NBA), but that means the other 3 are typically just standing on their spots- that doesn't make the defense move at all. I'd like to see more back cuts and movement from those guys.
-During a game- when our team is really struggling or when we could really use a stop or a bucket- I'd love to see Underwood use his timeouts more frequently and effectively- to stop momentum for the other team or to help get us an easy bucket.
Those are just some thoughts. I'll take no offense if you disagree with them- I do have plenty of positive takes as well (I can offer those as well). I probably lean more negative in general because I feel like our ceiling is capped with Underwood and I'd like to see more for our program- BUT- I do trust Whitman and I guess if he thinks Underwood is the guy- I gotta respect that.
Big Jack
- Decatur
24 minutes is a lot for those numbers, especially with how well Z is playing. That puts the split at approx 24/16 (in favor of Tomi).
With everything going on in the United States and the world, the fact we still have people who come on here and spew such negativity tells me all I need to know about that person. The University of Illinois is one of the most respected colleges in the states. Our players try and sometimes fail just as I and everyone here does. I know I have had many of work days, my mind and commitment may not of been in the best of shape to work that day, yet we get up, pull our boots up by the straps and try to have a better and more productive day tomorrow. Some here act like this is a fantasy league and they would be trading, cutting players weekly. Funny thing is, some of those fans would also complain when a player chooses on his own to seek a better opportunity. These young men put on a University of Illinois uniform by choice and I am thankful for that. Please save me thee, oh it's cause we are paying them, college athletes have always gotten paid, it's just out in the open now. I really hope and wish the best for us all, regardless of difference in opinions, but this negativity towards our teams here becomes nauseating.
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That and I think Mirkovic has taken some of the load/usage off of him in a few different ways.
I also think Mirkovic has more of the “keys” to the offense than Tomi at the moment. When Wagler was out — even though we struggled, we played a lot through Mirkovic (had the beautiful pass to Davis for the 3).
Those read FAR better than the other stuff being put out there.
Highlighting a few things the team does well (when the team is pretty good and is winning) goes a long way.
He had a few... of all the touch fouls they called that game, they missed the one where Z got blatantly pushed going up for an oop on a great mirk post pass.
It's a great thing to have so many "keys" for sure. We have our struggles that is for sure, but it's nice knowing any given game could be driven by a different set of keys. Mirk is a great example, because to me, it seems he has adapted and willing to sacrifice his "numbers" for the better of team yet still capable of being the driving force behind some victories. That is not always the case when dealing with ego's and what not. For a freshman, his maturity is impressive.
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Fair enough- I'll work on finding more balance- that's a well received criticism.
Exactly. I think it has more to do with Mirkovic than Wagler. KJ was pretty ball dominant last year, but we played through Tomi too - DHOs, PnR, etc.
This year that’s Mirk. Part of being a really talented team.
I think right now Z is the better fit for how we play.
LouHenson
- Naples Florida
I think this is well written, thought out and fair? I can totally understand questioning BU also? It has been 9 years and we have one E8 to show for it.
Then, I sort of think maybe I am expecting too much? Self maybe could have met my own “inflated” expectations of winning it once, but really no one else has me thinking we are going to get there? Obviously, BU is a very good coach, his record speaks for itself in that regard, but he has major holes in his resume. His record in big games is terrible and he has not got us to a F4. I think with our resources for basketball he should be able to reach that goal?
Then, I sort of think maybe I am expecting too much? Self maybe could have met my own “inflated” expectations of winning it once, but really no one else has me thinking we are going to get there? Obviously, BU is a very good coach, his record speaks for itself in that regard, but he has major holes in his resume. His record in big games is terrible and he has not got us to a F4. I think with our resources for basketball he should be able to reach that goal?
altgeld88
- Arlington, Virginia
For those spinning in the Buddhist's proverbial mudhole of dissatisfaction today, feast your eyes on these and then do a quick compare-and-contrast with the current edition of the program.
I remember the first game vividly. January 2007. A month before Jamar's DUI. OSU, which would reach the NC game in March, beating us like a rented mule in Champaign. This, for some reason, is when I sensed Weber was not the dude. I can't even remember what it was exactly. But I do recall seeing the frustration in Brian Randle at some point. That's the image that sticks with me. We were 12-4 coming in. What was it? Maybe watching the utter futility against a superior team, and sensing that Bruce wasn't Almighty? Watching Chester trying in vain to contain Mike Conley, Jr.'s assists? Being dominated by Greg Oden (nearly as many boards as Brian, Shaun and Warren combined)? We'd have to wait five more years for the wheels fully to detach, but this game was the beginning of the end for me. Something was wrong, beyond losing to a great team we would have hung with a season before, and my gut told me it wouldn't get fixed. The season ended with our AD on the sidelines in Columbus screaming at the officials as we lost to Virginia Tech in the first round of the tourney.
The second one, many will remember. ML crying openly on the sideline down 20 is what I recall. And that 50-12 run.
If you're annoyed and indignant today about the team take a good long look. Am not saying room for improvement doesn't exist, as it certainly does. But this is where we can be again: fluctuating between mediocrity and promise, or, worse, irrelevance. Anyone recall Fall 2017 when Underwood began to pick up the pieces?
We're #8 in KenPom. Purdue is apparently a bit better than we are, and Michigan is a lot better. Right now. But c'mon, seriously? There are 15 BT teams ranked beneath us, and 357 D-1 teams. Remember Maryland? It's #109, and there's a reason. And we're kvetching about a comfortable BT road win after a slow holiday period?
www.espn.com
www.sbnation.com
I remember the first game vividly. January 2007. A month before Jamar's DUI. OSU, which would reach the NC game in March, beating us like a rented mule in Champaign. This, for some reason, is when I sensed Weber was not the dude. I can't even remember what it was exactly. But I do recall seeing the frustration in Brian Randle at some point. That's the image that sticks with me. We were 12-4 coming in. What was it? Maybe watching the utter futility against a superior team, and sensing that Bruce wasn't Almighty? Watching Chester trying in vain to contain Mike Conley, Jr.'s assists? Being dominated by Greg Oden (nearly as many boards as Brian, Shaun and Warren combined)? We'd have to wait five more years for the wheels fully to detach, but this game was the beginning of the end for me. Something was wrong, beyond losing to a great team we would have hung with a season before, and my gut told me it wouldn't get fixed. The season ended with our AD on the sidelines in Columbus screaming at the officials as we lost to Virginia Tech in the first round of the tourney.
The second one, many will remember. ML crying openly on the sideline down 20 is what I recall. And that 50-12 run.
If you're annoyed and indignant today about the team take a good long look. Am not saying room for improvement doesn't exist, as it certainly does. But this is where we can be again: fluctuating between mediocrity and promise, or, worse, irrelevance. Anyone recall Fall 2017 when Underwood began to pick up the pieces?
We're #8 in KenPom. Purdue is apparently a bit better than we are, and Michigan is a lot better. Right now. But c'mon, seriously? There are 15 BT teams ranked beneath us, and 357 D-1 teams. Remember Maryland? It's #109, and there's a reason. And we're kvetching about a comfortable BT road win after a slow holiday period?
Ohio State 62-44 Illinois (Jan 6, 2007) Final Score - ESPN
Game summary of the Ohio State Buckeyes vs. Illinois Fighting Illini NCAAM game, final score 62-44, from January 6, 2007 on ESPN.
Illinois Vs. Nebraska: Wheels Officially Off, Huskers Crush Illini 80-57
The Huskers used a 50-12 run to decimate the struggling Illini, 80-57, on Saturday.
www.sbnation.com
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I didn’t watch this one at the time…but yikes. That’s a rough box score.
I did watch the Nebraska game though…and that was brutal. I had faith in Weber longer than most (I felt like he never quite figured out how to recruit to his style of play here)…but after that game, I realized it was time for him to go.
Weber's tenure is easy to describe. He didn't cheat. I remember talking to a Peoria area top 100 recruit's dad in the same class as Shaun Livingston and asking why Livingston picked Duke. He simply said, because when Self left, the checks stopped coming. He told me about getting money himself from all sorts of big time coaches. I fully believe Weber didn't cheat at all, and in that world, you just won't get the talent you need.
I think if Weber coached in the NIL days, he would have had much more sustained success.
The defense was fine.
I was at that Nebraska game. For as sick as I felt watching that, I did also have a sense of relief. It was the final nail in BW's coffin which was overdue.For those spinning in the Buddhist's proverbial mudhole of dissatisfaction today, feast your eyes on these and then do a quick compare-and-contrast with the current edition of the program.
I remember the first game vividly. January 2007. A month before Jamar's DUI. OSU, which would reach the NC game in March, beating us like a rented mule in Champaign. This, for some reason, is when I sensed Weber was not the dude. I can't even remember what it was exactly. But I do recall seeing the frustration in Brian Randle at some point. That's the image that sticks with me. We were 12-4 coming in. What was it? Maybe watching the utter futility against a superior team, and sensing that Bruce wasn't Almighty? Watching Chester trying in vain to contain Mike Conley, Jr.'s assists? Being dominated by Greg Oden (nearly as many boards as Brian, Shaun and Warren combined)? We'd have to wait five more years for the wheels fully to detach, but this game was the beginning of the end for me. Something was wrong, beyond losing to a great team we would have hung with a season before, and my gut told me it wouldn't get fixed. The season ended with our AD on the sidelines in Columbus screaming at the officials as we lost to Virginia Tech in the first round of the tourney.
The second one, many will remember. ML crying openly on the sideline down 20 is what I recall. And that 50-12 run.
If you're annoyed and indignant today about the team take a good long look. Am not saying room for improvement doesn't exist, as it certainly does. But this is where we can be again: fluctuating between mediocrity and promise, or, worse, irrelevance. Anyone recall Fall 2017 when Underwood began to pick up the pieces?
We're #8 in KenPom. Purdue is apparently a bit better than we are, and Michigan is a lot better. Right now. But c'mon, seriously? There are 15 BT teams ranked beneath us, and 357 D-1 teams. Remember Maryland? It's #109, and there's a reason. And we're kvetching about a comfortable BT road win after a slow holiday period?
Ohio State 62-44 Illinois (Jan 6, 2007) Final Score - ESPN
Game summary of the Ohio State Buckeyes vs. Illinois Fighting Illini NCAAM game, final score 62-44, from January 6, 2007 on ESPN.Illinois Vs. Nebraska: Wheels Officially Off, Huskers Crush Illini 80-57
The Huskers used a 50-12 run to decimate the struggling Illini, 80-57, on Saturday.
View attachment 46184 View attachment 46185
To say we've been through a lot as a fanbase over the years is an understatement.
I like Brad and think he's a great recruiter. I just wish he'd shore up some things schematic-wise. Just not a huge fan of the iso stuff continually do.
For those spinning in the Buddhist's proverbial mudhole of dissatisfaction today, feast your eyes on these and then do a quick compare-and-contrast with the current edition of the program.
I remember the first game vividly. January 2007. A month before Jamar's DUI. OSU, which would reach the NC game in March, beating us like a rented mule in Champaign. This, for some reason, is when I sensed Weber was not the dude. I can't even remember what it was exactly. But I do recall seeing the frustration in Brian Randle at some point. That's the image that sticks with me. We were 12-4 coming in. What was it? Maybe watching the utter futility against a superior team, and sensing that Bruce wasn't Almighty? Watching Chester trying in vain to contain Mike Conley, Jr.'s assists? Being dominated by Greg Oden (nearly as many boards as Brian, Shaun and Warren combined)? We'd have to wait five more years for the wheels fully to detach, but this game was the beginning of the end for me. Something was wrong, beyond losing to a great team we would have hung with a season before, and my gut told me it wouldn't get fixed. The season ended with our AD on the sidelines in Columbus screaming at the officials as we lost to Virginia Tech in the first round of the tourney.
The second one, many will remember. ML crying openly on the sideline down 20 is what I recall. And that 50-12 run.
If you're annoyed and indignant today about the team take a good long look. Am not saying room for improvement doesn't exist, as it certainly does. But this is where we can be again: fluctuating between mediocrity and promise, or, worse, irrelevance. Anyone recall Fall 2017 when Underwood began to pick up the pieces?
We're #8 in KenPom. Purdue is apparently a bit better than we are, and Michigan is a lot better. Right now. But c'mon, seriously? There are 15 BT teams ranked beneath us, and 357 D-1 teams. Remember Maryland? It's #109, and there's a reason. And we're kvetching about a comfortable BT road win after a slow holiday period?
Ohio State 62-44 Illinois (Jan 6, 2007) Final Score - ESPN
Game summary of the Ohio State Buckeyes vs. Illinois Fighting Illini NCAAM game, final score 62-44, from January 6, 2007 on ESPN.Illinois Vs. Nebraska: Wheels Officially Off, Huskers Crush Illini 80-57
The Huskers used a 50-12 run to decimate the struggling Illini, 80-57, on Saturday.
View attachment 46184 View attachment 46185
The storytelling approach here is excellent, love it
There are too many folks who pretend that entire decade never happened
ok, hold on now.
Just a few weeks ago, we turned over the offense to Wagler to make him the primary ball handler and playmaker. This isn't some small shift. Fans clamor for adjustments, they get a massive one (just like we did with Domask as the primary) and now all of a sudden we're concerned the shift isn't seamless over night.
Also, if the biggest red flag for the team is the nationally ranked 4th offense, I like what Underwood has built here.
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