At Edwardsville that's an assist.
Illinois 75, Ohio State 70 POSTGAME
At Edwardsville that's an assist.
I saw that too. He scored at will, and I think OSU actually took the lead. But then I think he sat on the bench for a breather. Does anyone remember how we ended up stopping him? I deleted it already unfortunately.
Nick Irvin confirms that.
Lyle scored 16 straight tOSU points in the 2nd half. A couple of times we doubled the ball out of his hands and then he flat out missed 2 shots down the stretch. Our guard defense was exposed against Lyle and also @ Maryland where we were outscored 41-6. If Blackmon and RJohnson go off on us in Btown it could be a long night.
It's almost as if there are drawbacks to adding a ton of muscle mass in the offseason. No, that can't be true. I was assured it was just a matter of us working harder than the 350 other D1 teams.
I was thinking something along these lines when I was watching the game too. Several players looked completely gassed when they really shouldn't have been. Side effect of carrying extra muscle mass. It is nice to be a stronger team but if it can't be sustained it is a problem. Either need a lot of depth to rotate people without dropoff in performance or unreal stamina from the first 5. I think the problem is the second five are no where close to the the first 5 in terms of on court performance and there just isn't even in the tank of MH, TA, LB to make up for it.
I don't think it has anything to do with adding muscle mass. Out of our starting 5, the only player who is quick for his position is maybe Black. The rest are all lacking in quickness/speed, and it wouldn't matter if they lost or gained 10 lbs.
I actually think JCL adding some muscle mass could help his quickness.
This team has some positive qualities - depth, experience, skill. However, we lack quickness to defend the more athletic teams out there.
The Dave
- CA
They still had problems stopping a PG getting to the rim and making layups.
I think the difference in this game was that they the did a much better job of collapsing when the ball went inside. They got a few strips and blocks from players coming in on the backside.
I'm not 100% on this, but it certainly seemed like they played more zone than normal which helps limit drives by athletic players.
The one problem still exists (and probably always will) although I give them credit for adjustments.
Looks like somebody has been reading this board.
<http://writingillini.com/2017/01/03/illinois-basketball-3-observations-ohio-state-victory/>
I have noticed someone or more than just one person has been pretty adamant about playing DJW more on this and/or other threads. This article echoes that sentiment.
<http://writingillini.com/2017/01/03/illinois-basketball-3-observations-ohio-state-victory/>
I have noticed someone or more than just one person has been pretty adamant about playing DJW more on this and/or other threads. This article echoes that sentiment.
WiscIllini
- Madison, WI
DJW will get as much playing time as his defense allows him. He simply won't get many minutes this year because Hill will be playing as much as he can. I expect DJ will get vastly improved minutes next year.
This is my worry, he's gotta be frustrated with lack of playing time this year. Next year he's probably got 30 mins to his name. Hope he sticks it out. This game showed he can play with the big boys.
DJW knows he has to wait his turn and appears to be patiently waiting to be a primary in next year's lineup, let's hope.
WiscIllini
- Madison, WI
I think this is just fans projecting their frustrations onto players, honestly. Sure, his mom sent out those tweets a month ago, but from what we know, Groce is a straight shooter and I expect he's told Williams from the get go what to expect this season.
Most of the guys just changed their body composition. Not necessarily adding muscle in terms of weight, unless they needed to for B1G effectiveness, just converting some fat to muscle.
It also certainly doesn't seem to affect NFL RBs, LBs and DBs. Those guys are a different level of ATHLETE. So yeah, we must have made our super athletes into slouches. #firefletch
That gap would close a little bit if we'd give those guys some minutes, but alas...
There is no reason he doesn't get more minutes this year. TA at 1, Hill at 2, DJW at 3 is at least equal to Tate at 1, TA at 2, Hill at 3 and has way more upside, IMO. If they used it more, I think it could be very effective.
I would prefer that Tates minutes come as a backup to TA, or in end game type situations when ball handling is at a premium.
Last edited:
You've forgotten JCL in these lineups. Having Malcolm play the 2 for a little bit is fine, but having our best 3 pt shot out of two whole lineups just isnt the best strategy. DJW should average 10 mins a game, spelling Hill for 6 or 7 and then 3 at the 3/4 when we go small. In a perfect world you'd have a mins breakdown like: TA -30 | JCL -30 | MH - 33 | LB - 25 | DJW - 10 and the rest split amongst the bigs + Tate/TJL.
We saw a lot of DJW this game soley because Hill was in foul trouble very early. He proved himself worthy and therefore earned more time yesterday. Theres not reason to think hes gonna get more playing time than Tate normally, just because theres essentially a lock of Tate, TA, and JCL at the guard position.
I should say I agree with you. I like having Hill and DJW out there. I would suggest a lineup of TA, JCL, DJW, Hill, and Black. Good combo of athleticism and scoring ability and I think speed as well. You get a couple of crafty veterans and a few of the younger guys. The most important lineup we haven't found yet is our defensive set. Not saying my solution is the answer but I think it would make up for some of our deficiencies.
Not at all. I'm simply showing where I believe there are additional minutes available for DJW. I don't think TA should be the back up 2, except in specific game situations where additional ball handling is necessary.
DJW shouldn't take any minutes from Hill, but there are other ways he can get added minutes.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
WiscIllini
- Madison, WI
While I agree with what you're saying, that just isn't what's going to happen unless DJW improves or Groce becomes more confident in him. He played a good game the other day and should see more minutes, but Tate is going to get more than what you or I probably would like. It's just a little too crowded for him right now.
Regardless of what we want, the coaches see these guys almost every day and I still trust that they know the players better than we do.
That gap won't close with playing time at this point. The offseason and cupcake portion of the schedule is the only place that happens. Unfortunately for everyone's favorite PG he missed a lot of that time and the schedule that has propped up the RPI also didn't allow for much development at the back quarter of the roster.
Disagree, you have to get guys minutes in meaningful minutes. Letting guys make mistakes is important for development and confidence, and is part of why I think Aaron Jordan looks so incredibly tight when he gets minutes and why he hasn't developed particularly well.
MrOizo
- Chicago
I've wondered this before - do Tate's minutes potentially indicate a controlling nature or desire for more control over the outcome by the coaches? He is predictable, a senior, and listens. It could be this simple.
It's hard to argue by anyone not as close to the situation as the coaches that there is much value to Tate's level of minutes right now. We know what he can do, he's not a difference maker, and is gone after this year. Makes no sense to me aside from this.
Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk
It's hard to argue by anyone not as close to the situation as the coaches that there is much value to Tate's level of minutes right now. We know what he can do, he's not a difference maker, and is gone after this year. Makes no sense to me aside from this.
Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk
Tevo
- Wilmette, IL
Yes, we had a discussion a couple months ago about whether Groce's perception of the temperature of his seat would drive him to coach to avoid volatility and reduce risk. It might also reduce upside (kind of like investing!), but maybe he'd feel reducing errors is of prime importance? Folks argued (reasonably) at that time that isn't necessarily good logic. Playing the inexperienced but more offensively gifted TJL early may in fact lead to more wins later, maybe even saving Groce's job. If he were a coach with an assured future with the team, he might have a longer-term perspective on building the team, and might play the young guys more and have different substitution patterns.