Yes. We played against a team that wasn't in the top 20. Not even in the top 75. Pretty magical.
Illinois 77, UNLV 74 POSTGAME
Yes. We played against a team that wasn't in the top 20. Not even in the top 75. Pretty magical.
Making the tourney was never the goal this season. I know I saw the normal crazies in the prediction thread but the goal this season is solidifying the core with the scheme's the staff is trying to teach. Pick up a couple guys and compete for tourney presence in year 3.
IllFanInMi
I
Guest
Ok, so we are 1.25 years of games into BU’s tenure, close to 2 years on the job.
Without rehashing all the positives and negatives, but skipping right to the point. Which camp are you in?
1. Did you see how effective BU’s system was vs UNLV, guys are getting it and gelling. Samba will solve a lot of issues that cost the team earlier losses, Tev will do the same and this is an NCAA bubble team. Go Illinois!
2. Team looked good vs UNLV, a lot of good signs, Samba can get tick the next three games, which will allow him to be a missing piece in the B10. Tev will serve his suspension, get tick the next three games, and with Samba and Tev contributing (assuming the rest of the guys play the same as they have to date), this team will finish inside the top 10 in the Big. Recruits will see the vision working and we will sign immediate difference makers for 2019 in addition to Higgs as a RS, no significant talent will transfer, and we will be a legitimate NCAA team next year.
3. Sure, we looked good vs UNLV, but they’re one of the weaker teams we’ve played to date, have a lot of new, raw, undeveloped talent, and we almost gave the game away AT HOME! Samba will go back to the bench once the B10 games start, Tevian is so far behind right now that the best we can hope for are spot moments in vs B10 teams. Without significant contributions from Samba and Tev, we know what this team is and finishing ahead of Rutgers is realistic, better than that is icing. Significant potential talent for next year will transfer, January signs, but other recruits will not see the vision and the best we can hope for is to sign a diamond in the rough who will be the next Giorgi.
What a dumpster fire, BU turns kids off, our recruiting is bad, and this program takes 1 step forward, but 2 steps backwards, and next year will be no better than this year. Whitman better get his short list out and make the right call on the next coach.
Not sure where I’m at yet, but the above seem like very plausible scenarios, am I missing any other scenarios?
Without rehashing all the positives and negatives, but skipping right to the point. Which camp are you in?
1. Did you see how effective BU’s system was vs UNLV, guys are getting it and gelling. Samba will solve a lot of issues that cost the team earlier losses, Tev will do the same and this is an NCAA bubble team. Go Illinois!
2. Team looked good vs UNLV, a lot of good signs, Samba can get tick the next three games, which will allow him to be a missing piece in the B10. Tev will serve his suspension, get tick the next three games, and with Samba and Tev contributing (assuming the rest of the guys play the same as they have to date), this team will finish inside the top 10 in the Big. Recruits will see the vision working and we will sign immediate difference makers for 2019 in addition to Higgs as a RS, no significant talent will transfer, and we will be a legitimate NCAA team next year.
3. Sure, we looked good vs UNLV, but they’re one of the weaker teams we’ve played to date, have a lot of new, raw, undeveloped talent, and we almost gave the game away AT HOME! Samba will go back to the bench once the B10 games start, Tevian is so far behind right now that the best we can hope for are spot moments in vs B10 teams. Without significant contributions from Samba and Tev, we know what this team is and finishing ahead of Rutgers is realistic, better than that is icing. Significant potential talent for next year will transfer, January signs, but other recruits will not see the vision and the best we can hope for is to sign a diamond in the rough who will be the next Giorgi.
What a dumpster fire, BU turns kids off, our recruiting is bad, and this program takes 1 step forward, but 2 steps backwards, and next year will be no better than this year. Whitman better get his short list out and make the right call on the next coach.
Not sure where I’m at yet, but the above seem like very plausible scenarios, am I missing any other scenarios?
foby
- Bonnaroo Land
Yes, it is definitely crazy to hope that the best case scenario falls into place. Dang us overly optimistic types.
A win is a win, we'll take it again and again...that said some real positives from this game.
We were more aggressive for the most part than so far this year. Kipper and Samba with Giorgi should be able to use this as a growth game, we will see. The talent level allowed Samba to do some good things, (no more redshirt talk) good game for him to get some minutes and experience and allowed Kipper to be very competitive.
Guard play which is supposed to be our strong point needs work, although we proved we can win without the 2 studs playing great. Ayo needs to learn he is not going to get layups and calls going against bigger more athletic players at the rim...he NEEDS to learn the floater. Feliz shot several of them, so maybe with experience? Feliz played very well...he will can be a steadying player and seems to have learned when he can and can't take it all the way to the rim, as he was getting alot of shots altered blocked previous to this game.
Griffin showed some spurts, really hope he turns into a really good multi use player and we can get his brother as well.
Jones needs to figure out how to get off suspension or maybe he redshirts? If he doesn't dress for a few more he would qualify right?
Jordan is showing he is an upperclassman
Williams does a lot of little stuff good, not anything great mostly consistant not so much in this one though.
If we can get some wins strung together....maybe gets some momentum, be competitive and get some recruiting interest based on style of play that is being viewed nationally, might be an interesting next several years.
We were more aggressive for the most part than so far this year. Kipper and Samba with Giorgi should be able to use this as a growth game, we will see. The talent level allowed Samba to do some good things, (no more redshirt talk) good game for him to get some minutes and experience and allowed Kipper to be very competitive.
Guard play which is supposed to be our strong point needs work, although we proved we can win without the 2 studs playing great. Ayo needs to learn he is not going to get layups and calls going against bigger more athletic players at the rim...he NEEDS to learn the floater. Feliz shot several of them, so maybe with experience? Feliz played very well...he will can be a steadying player and seems to have learned when he can and can't take it all the way to the rim, as he was getting alot of shots altered blocked previous to this game.
Griffin showed some spurts, really hope he turns into a really good multi use player and we can get his brother as well.
Jones needs to figure out how to get off suspension or maybe he redshirts? If he doesn't dress for a few more he would qualify right?
Jordan is showing he is an upperclassman
Williams does a lot of little stuff good, not anything great mostly consistant not so much in this one though.
If we can get some wins strung together....maybe gets some momentum, be competitive and get some recruiting interest based on style of play that is being viewed nationally, might be an interesting next several years.
Im a litle confuse on your post. I actually agree with portions of each of your scenarios. I think BU has potential to bld a good prog, I see signs of progress, but dont always like his demeanor. I wish that he would be intense in practice and be confident and relaxed during game. One of the VB players said it best about Thompson. His biggest impact in his 1st 2 years is instilling confidence.....thats what Bball team needs. We have young talent that can compete...they need confidence
Making the tourney should be a goal every year. Just like making a bowl in football. I’m not getting any younger, Can’t afford to write off success years in advance,
Maybe it isn’t the only goal but, can’t see how striving for success in the current season is detrimental to building for the future.
The goal should always be making the tournament. Was it realistic? In hindsight everyone's going to say no. Another 4 win season in the BIG certainly isn't the goal.
I agree with this comment. I read where Tamas called a certain play for match point but Poulter countered with a play and he deferred to her. And that displayed a lot of confidence in his players to execute the play. Underwood is a long way from displaying that confidence in his team but I hope the team gains the much-needed confidence and Underwood is able to defer to the team to make good decisions and to provide input into some of the decisions that are made.
Thanks Konnie...you put it much better than I did. Well said!
Deleted member 236589
D
Guest
While I agree with your premise, I think I'd maybe tweak the wording a little.
Our goal should be to make the tournament year in and year out. Including this year, the goal be to get our name called on Selection Sunday.
That said, I'm judging the success or lack thereof of this season as how close we actually get to that goal.
If this teams ends the non conference 6-5(currently 3-5) and the conference season at 7-13(currently 0-2), with the better play being towards the end of the season....that would put us at 13-18 with the arrow pointing up. It's short of the goal....probably 5 games off, but a massive step forward
Now, if we end the pre-conference 5-6(loss to Missouri), 3-17 in conference and a transfer at the end of the year....that puts us at 8-23 and the arrow pointing down. That would be a collassal failure.
My assumption is that it will be somewhere in between, but hopefully we're at the higher end of the scale than the lower.
The key is keeping the team together through next season. I see a lot of potential in all the underclassmen.
Giorgi and Samba have very quick feet for their size. Add experience, strength, tools and we are much better next year.
Ayo is going to be a starter and +12ppg scorer for us, that is historically elite for our program. Griffin has plenty intangibles and great size for a college combo guard. See him being a great shooter and solid on defense/rebounding. Tevian is raw, but has a good stroke and best athlete on team. He is closer to Samba in BBIQ and well behind Ayo/Griffin. Give him time to grow.
Trent, Damonte, Feliz will be better next season. See Trent getting physically stronger, and driving more to rim. Damonte still not recovered from knee IMHO, early in final year if high school seemed more explosive. See Damonte being a bigger offensive threat next year.
This is year 1 for this group. Not much to build from last year. Saw less mechanical effort and more confident plays vs UNLV. Yes lesser competition, but shows that knowledge of the system is growing.
Giorgi and Samba have very quick feet for their size. Add experience, strength, tools and we are much better next year.
Ayo is going to be a starter and +12ppg scorer for us, that is historically elite for our program. Griffin has plenty intangibles and great size for a college combo guard. See him being a great shooter and solid on defense/rebounding. Tevian is raw, but has a good stroke and best athlete on team. He is closer to Samba in BBIQ and well behind Ayo/Griffin. Give him time to grow.
Trent, Damonte, Feliz will be better next season. See Trent getting physically stronger, and driving more to rim. Damonte still not recovered from knee IMHO, early in final year if high school seemed more explosive. See Damonte being a bigger offensive threat next year.
This is year 1 for this group. Not much to build from last year. Saw less mechanical effort and more confident plays vs UNLV. Yes lesser competition, but shows that knowledge of the system is growing.
I think when you talk “eye-test” you have to mention Kane. I said this in the game thread and I’ll repeat it again, to have him rotting away on the bench in the midst of our worst season in 100+ years is beyond negligent bordering on criminal by this coaching staff. And where I am making this connection to the eye-test is every time DLR is on the court, he just looks like he has no business being out there. The fact that Kane was in late is really offset somewhat by the fact DLR couldn’t practice either coming off his injury. To me, it’s strictly the coaches banking on experience over talent and doing it to a fault.
If DLR, and this is no knock on him as a teammate or person, had shown anything in his time on the court I’d be right there with the guys justifying playing him over Kane. He did not.
I’ll call it water under the bridge now, and going forward that time should go primarily to Kane as we play with an eye toward the future. If this was a one-off and DLR goes right back to being the first big off the bench then Underwood, like so many other coaches **cough cough Bruce Weber cough** will show to be stubborn to a fault...to the detriment of the team and the future. Just my .02 as I know others will argue Kane “just wasn't ready” but I don’t buy that.
If DLR, and this is no knock on him as a teammate or person, had shown anything in his time on the court I’d be right there with the guys justifying playing him over Kane. He did not.
I’ll call it water under the bridge now, and going forward that time should go primarily to Kane as we play with an eye toward the future. If this was a one-off and DLR goes right back to being the first big off the bench then Underwood, like so many other coaches **cough cough Bruce Weber cough** will show to be stubborn to a fault...to the detriment of the team and the future. Just my .02 as I know others will argue Kane “just wasn't ready” but I don’t buy that.
FeelYourPaign
- So Cal
I was going along with you just fine until the final sentences. "Trying to rush him in just to get a couple of W's is worthless . . . " Don't see how trying to get a couple of W's is ever worthless. Just can't wrap my head around that part. I get that rushing him is risky. I get that a guy who didn't even play is likely not the difference in W/L. Anyway, not a big deal, but I just couldn't get off that part of the sentence.
As Sesillini noted keeping this team intact after the season is over will be key for the programs success. That plus getting January to sign on the dotted line (or Kofi ) and at least one more solid recruit.
sacraig
- The desert
Physically, you can't just turn on a light switch. Mentally, you can. I am not saying this is what happened with Samba, but it is a plausible scenario. People have sudden moments of clarity all the time.
Otherwise, there are plenty of other plausible explanations as well.
I do think these guys have the potential to be a good team. The pieces are there to finish in the middle of the B10. There are only 3 guys on this team with any B10 experience and only 2 (not counting the walk-ons) that played for Underwood last year.. If they can pick up a couple more wins before they get back in the B10 schedule, I think we will see their team-play improve game to game. That is how Underwoods teams have done at his other stops.
As a rule I am a very patient person when it comes to coaching. At first glance, the BU hire was a strong one based on his previous 4 yr. record and his desire to coach the Illini. But two things have caused me to withdraw any support for his coaching the Illini basketball team. First, his in game demeanor and treatment of players shows a lack of respect for the players....being tough on them is one thing but publicly yelling at them in uncontrolled anger should is not acceptable. Hold them accountable, bench them, look them in the eye and explain why their play cannot be tolerated by the team, whatever. But to get respect you must give respect....and Underwood is going to lose his team quickly if he cannot control his anger and frustration in an adult manor. Secondly, he needs to look in the mirror and come to terms with his poor end game coaching that has cost his team several times....or nearly so as against UNLV. His lack of knowledge of how to coach in pressure situations must change....and it is not that difficult... if he wants to learn and improve.
This team has some talent, albeit little of it on front line, and can win some big games if it becomes a team effort with the head guy as part of it. Yelling at them that they are not getting the job done because they are not doing what he wants is simply fruitless. BU needs to learn from the myriad coaches who have gone that route and failed...and the few who have failed their way to success by controlling and overcoming their own shortcomings. Bobby Knight was not an admired man outside Indiana, but Indiana kids flocked to Bloomington to play simply because it was their dream. Illinois kids no longer have that dream, though they would be better off embracing it. Therefore, he needs to be a magnet and leader of teenage players, not create a repellent environment that appears to be developing.
This team has some talent, albeit little of it on front line, and can win some big games if it becomes a team effort with the head guy as part of it. Yelling at them that they are not getting the job done because they are not doing what he wants is simply fruitless. BU needs to learn from the myriad coaches who have gone that route and failed...and the few who have failed their way to success by controlling and overcoming their own shortcomings. Bobby Knight was not an admired man outside Indiana, but Indiana kids flocked to Bloomington to play simply because it was their dream. Illinois kids no longer have that dream, though they would be better off embracing it. Therefore, he needs to be a magnet and leader of teenage players, not create a repellent environment that appears to be developing.
7 wins isn’t that crazy. To think that we play so many underclass men, have had some injuries, suspensions etc. and still have been competitive against such a tough schedule says a lot. best part about being so young, their growth will be much greater and quicker than most teams. if this team was filled with juniors/seniors, with our record, and way we have lost games, i think 3-17 in conference is likely. but it’s not. it’s filled with youngsters who have showed some big strides since Evansville. 7 wins isn’t that crazy.
sacraig
- The desert
How exactly do you define "uncontrolled" here?
To help the team surmount this lack of coaching knowledge problem, I nominate you for special assistant to BU and perhaps even to take over for him if you prove yourself.
You're right, no great coaches yell. I've never seen Coach K yell or Bill Self yell or...
I might imagine his 3 national titles and .735 winning percentage probably had a lot more to do with it.
Hey!!! I resemble that remark.
Obviously you have not done your homework (not trying to knock you). BU has been known for this - ever since the start. Nothing new here.
In fact, I do not recall who, either Coach Martin or Huggins had said, something to the effect "wait till you see Underwood" (I think it was Martin - too lazy to check right now). Both these coaches were considered a little on the tough love side and someone (reporter?) mentioned the same to one of these coaches and that was that Coach's response.
I would expect kids who play or plan to play for him are more than aware of this side of him.
I would be extremely surprised if JW was not aware of it.
I think the current problem - with this team - are the kids. They do not execute most of teh time. I think they are getting there (playing without thinking). Jan should be when they show up IMVVHO.
It will take a while, but if BU does start rolling, all this will be forgotten.
added l8r:
Try this:
https://www.thechampaignroom.com/20...llinois-basketball-rumors-john-groce-hot-seat
Not about BU, but ...................
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Change the last words to "next year" and that sounds like something someone would have written a year ago.
skyIdub
Winged Warrior
Yeah, worthless was probably not the best choice of words. Perhaps not as valuable as getting him up to speed. We have no real way of knowing if he was ready or not, and I trust BU's decision making in regards to the kids.
Making the tourney was always the goal, last season, this season, and every other season. Whether the roster assembled by the staff leads to reasonable expectations of making the tourney is a different story, but that has nothing to do with the goal.