sacraig
- The desert
I think some posters should have to watch game film of their posts during games so they can learn about all their misses and how to be better.
Illinois 86, Wisconsin 80 Postgame
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Not only that, but those making the claims are convinced their “fixes” would all have worked and secured a different outcome (talking mainly about NE game here).
Totally agree about being patient. Tre White would have been glued to the bench last night if all the over-reactors had gotten their wishes after a few games. These guys are still learning to play with each other. On Nov 30, I replied to someone on here asked what Tre White was like when he gets going. Part of my response:
“I’d guess I saw him in a half dozen games [in USC uniform] and what always stood out to me was his activity on offense — moving and cutting, getting into lane. I wonder if he’s not having some trouble finding ways to use his strengths within the offense. Sometimes almost seems tentative in his movement like he’s worried he’ll get in the way of offense.”
Didn’t see much of those issues last night. Looked very much liked he did at USC.
Ben is likely being asked to do things he hasn’t had to do often in the past, all while trying to learn to play with new guys, in a new system, and against better competition. Obviously, Brad feels he can do those things and that Ben is a key component to the team. But I get it. People are skeptical. Perfectly understandable. Not like Brad has brought any success to Illini that we can at least fall back on.
Going to be?
This is a catch 22 because the only way to make him playable is to play him. It's an odd situation.
We are a team that is HIGHLY dependent on the three point shot. I think that we're way too reliant on it, but it's who we are.
If that's going to continue to be the case, Ben has to be out there. Brad is right. If he's as good of a shooter as he's being made out to be, he needs to shoot his way out of this. If he goes 6 for 7 from three against Tennessee, we're going to have a lot of people that change their tune within seconds. The only way that he gets 7 shots is to be on the court.
So, what you're saying isn't wrong, however, given what Brad envisions as his offensive identity.....Ben is absolutely critical. He's just got to make shots and he's proven that he can against high level teams. He was 6 of 11 versus Bama and Arkansas. We need that. We will not beat Tennessee unless he gives us that production.
I, personally, don't like the offense, but when it comes to shooting, it's most definitely a what have you done for me lately situation. Our offense is going to go on explosive runs, but we're also going to go on brutal droughts.
Not to be cliche, but if you live by the three, you die by the three. Ben is a big part of that. If he was even REASONABLE versus NW.....we win by 20. It is what it is.
Big Jack
- Decatur
This part is a great point.. also some need to realize he was guarding a 7ft player the majority of the game and yes Winter abused him on a couple missed free throws. Ben also had to switch to Tomi's man alot when Wisky had both 7 footers on the floor. I am more concerned with his shooting than I am his defense. Also Tomi has to have a bad knee or leg he was struggling big time in the second half. Anyone see anything about the issue?
That will always be the case.
People were crushing Tre White, then he has a game like that and he's immediately elite again and he NEEDS huge tick. After Friday, people wanted his minutes stripped.
Same for Ben. People are going WAY over the top with their commentary. Some are flat out attacking the guy. When he's 6 of 11 versus Bama/Arkansas, he needs 30 minutes. When he struggles versus NW/Wisconsin, he's killing us. If he goes 6 of 7 versus Tennessee and we win....wait for the "I told you so's."
I'm not a huge fan with our offensive identity, but it's Brad's vision and as such, he is pushing the right buttons. If our goal is to shoot threes, then chase down misses as the balance......we need Ben and we need Tre, hard stop.
People were crushing Tre White, then he has a game like that and he's immediately elite again and he NEEDS huge tick. After Friday, people wanted his minutes stripped.
Same for Ben. People are going WAY over the top with their commentary. Some are flat out attacking the guy. When he's 6 of 11 versus Bama/Arkansas, he needs 30 minutes. When he struggles versus NW/Wisconsin, he's killing us. If he goes 6 of 7 versus Tennessee and we win....wait for the "I told you so's."
I'm not a huge fan with our offensive identity, but it's Brad's vision and as such, he is pushing the right buttons. If our goal is to shoot threes, then chase down misses as the balance......we need Ben and we need Tre, hard stop.
Hi. I’ve worked in basketball and played at a high level compared to the mean poster here and the general population. I’m sure there exists a metric or derivative thereof that puts Ben’s D ahead of, say, Kylan for the NU game (and others).
We all know what Brad is doing and I appreciate it very much. This is the artful part of coaching. And he’s damn good at it. I know Brad could also be an accountant and that he very much understands and embraces analytics. But for now I will quietly not entertain that his personnel decisions involving certain players the last two games is entirely backed by all the numbers available to him. My former high school coach, a HIGHLY respected basketball guy in the Chicago area and former Illini walk-on, told me via text that there is no way in heck he would have had x in over y, or at the very least pulled him from the bottom block on those free throws.
We all know what Brad is doing and I appreciate it very much. This is the artful part of coaching. And he’s damn good at it. I know Brad could also be an accountant and that he very much understands and embraces analytics. But for now I will quietly not entertain that his personnel decisions involving certain players the last two games is entirely backed by all the numbers available to him. My former high school coach, a HIGHLY respected basketball guy in the Chicago area and former Illini walk-on, told me via text that there is no way in heck he would have had x in over y, or at the very least pulled him from the bottom block on those free throws.
Illini2010-11
- Sugar Grove
I did not realize this until the broadcasters mentioned Illini's recent dominance in the series, which is surprising given how much we struggled at Kohl over the years before the Underwood era. If we win at Kohl in February, that would be 5 in a row in Madison! Quite remarkable.
Every year this Board picks a whipping boy.
You are 1000% right with this and it's the exact reason why Ben is still absolutely critical. Will is absolutely not ready for the physicality at this level. He gets pushed around a ton on the defensive end, then on the offense end, he dribbles himself into trouble and it stymies the offense of it leads directly to a turnover and run out. He's not exactly shooting the lights out either.
Brad has similar issues with both Ben and Will. Ben needs to shoot the ball to get out of this brutal slump. Will needs to be living in the weight room with Fletch for a year. I don't care what the mock drafts are saying right now. It's December. He is nowhere close to being ready to bring drafted. He's much, much closer to needing a second year. That is TBD though. We'll see if he handles the physicality moving forward.
sacraig
- The desert
For a long time we were actually the winningest visiting team at Kohl Center by a substantial margin. Until the Dark Years. Until John Groce.
We might be on top again by now.
Coleman graduated from that after what.....his Junior year? That's when the villagers understood the value he brought on both ends of the court. He felt the need to publicly addressed it because people were blowing up his social media.
Ben is the object of the wrath right now. He'll shoot his way out of it, not sure who'll be next on the docket. Not sure how far our fans have gone with him yet.
Gotta say, I didn't like how this game was trending in the first half. Felt like one where we could never really get a foothold there for a bit. Then we went on a bit of a run, yet I still didn't feel great because we were trying to step on their throats and couldn't. Didn't really want them hanging around at all. But we pulled it out anyway. So we can definitely win tough games when the chips are down.
Before we all crow too much about this streak, it is likely will end at 5 years and a day on Feb. 19 in Madison. Wisky is a solid team with many ways to score and they defend well. Also, not likely they throw bricks from the FT line again.
Why was Blackwell allowed 6 fouls??
Why was that obvious foul not called on Blackwell? Called on a player 30 feet away and the officials laughed. How can this be?
Why was that obvious foul not called on Blackwell? Called on a player 30 feet away and the officials laughed. How can this be?
It's great to learn that in spite of what our lying eyes have been showing us, Ben H. is actually the best defender on the team!
I'm glad to have that misconception cleared up.
Also he has been shooting quite well the last few games, it just doesn't seem like it since he is not making his shots.
Fans know nothing, we just think that the logic that has served us well throughout our lives should also apply to basketball. Silly us!
I'm glad to have that misconception cleared up.
Also he has been shooting quite well the last few games, it just doesn't seem like it since he is not making his shots.
Fans know nothing, we just think that the logic that has served us well throughout our lives should also apply to basketball. Silly us!
I'd be interested in poll here to see how many posters even made their HS team lol
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
And as is tradition, it's someone they were calling an NBA player in the offseason
I'm in total agreement that Ben's defense is a problem and he isn't offering much when his shots aren't falling. However...people are really going to change their tune when the slump ends. He's eventually going to go put together games where he goes 5/8 and 4/7 from 3 and he'll be taken off the Loyalty crucifix...now, the question is, when the next slump rolls around can he provide more value than he is now?
I don’t know if this was talked about about Will. He didn’t look happy the last ten minutes on the bench, or is that his typical demeanor.
Ben's a soft player, it is what it is. You could literally almost see it in the opposing players' eyes in the Bama and NW game when he was on ball, they were bulldogging it straight through his chest to the rack every time.
But defense is more than just on-ball tenacity. As long as he's rotating, not letting his man beat him offball continuosly, and not contributing to defensive breakdowns as a whole...I can't complain too much. The issue here is his shooting slump which has made him a total net negative on the court. I'm confident he'll break out of it though, form and history is too pure.
But defense is more than just on-ball tenacity. As long as he's rotating, not letting his man beat him offball continuosly, and not contributing to defensive breakdowns as a whole...I can't complain too much. The issue here is his shooting slump which has made him a total net negative on the court. I'm confident he'll break out of it though, form and history is too pure.
My big issue with Ben is his lack of toughness,strength on defense.Seems to get pushed around easily,needs to compete with more intensity in my eyes.Confident that the shots will start falling,Brad needs BH for this offence to thrive so he will live with the defensive shortcomings.
Not basketball, but I was known for scoring four touchdowns in a single game for Polk High School during the 1966 city championship.
(hopefully someone will get the reference lol)
Illini2010-11
- Sugar Grove
Don't disagree there, but our struggles at Kohl started forming in the early 1990s and was not a Groce phenomenon:
1/25/90 - W 66-63
3/6/91 - L 77-85
2/20/92 - L 78-92
2/28/93 - L 66-74
1/25/94 - L 56-66
2/4/95 - L 60-73
2/12/97 - L 45-62
2/7/98 - W 53-47 (OT)
1/20/99 - L 53-75
1/8/00 - L 59-63
1/5/02 - L 66-72
3/5/03 - L 59-60
1/24/04 - L 56-76
1/25/05 - W 75-65
1/31/06 - W 66-51
1/10/08 - L 60-70
2/5/09 - L 50-63
2/9/10 - W 63-56
1/15/11 - L 66-76
3/4/12 - L 56-70
1/12/13 - L 51-74
1/8/14 - L 70-95
2/15/15 - L 49-68
2/21/16 - L 60-69
1/19/18 - L 50-75
2/18/19 - L 58-64
1/8/20 - W 71-70
2/27/21 - W 74-69
1/28/23 - W 61-51
3/2/24 - W 91-83
Prior to the current 4 game winning streak, the Illini were 5-21 at Kohl going back to 1990. Underwood has the same number of road wins at Wisconsin as his 4 predecessors combined (Kruger -1, Self -0 , Weber -3, and Groce -0). I had to do a double take on the Self statistic.
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Agreed, noticed the same. And that is the other side of the Ben debate. And the fact that a 5 star recruit was sitting in the stands watching our 5 star sit on the bench may not help either. Or it may be nothing. But it is worth discussing on a fan forum in my opinion.
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