Illinois 86, Wisconsin 80 Postgame

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#201      
bluemountain
2 things re: Ben....

1. As bad as he has been on offense, he would have to be Rodmanesque on defense and the boards to make up for it. He is well, well below the Mendoza line right now

2. for us to be all we can be in March, we need a productive Ben. And the only way we get there is for him to play himself into it. So I understand why he is getting the minutes he is getting early in the season. One way or another he will not be shooting 20% on volume in mid-February - he will either be much more efficient on offense or will be on the bench
 
#202      
From the cheap seats
Highest rated might mean he is the player who is most often in the right place at the right time based on what the defense is trying to take away. Doesn't mean Brad is saying he's a shut-down defender (in fact, I don't recall him comparing Ben to Boswell in those terms). On offense, the Arkansas game showed what he brings to the table when he makes his 3's. He hit 3 of them (only took 4). But that threat opened up spacing for KJ, Tomi and others. It's one reason Calipari was on his team in the post-game presser about leaving the corners unguarded. When Ben is on, teams are forced to pick their poison on defense. I remember a time last season when Domask couldn't get a 3 to fall. But he had always been good from 3. He returned to his norm. Ben will too.
 
#203      
TheodoreRex
I know we need Ben for this team to reach it's ceiling but in the meantime, Will & Morez are far more impactful and productive and I'd much rather invest in them now and their future than Ben. On a high level team, Ben comes off the bench for 15 minutes max and is expected to not be a liability on d and provide a jolt offensively with 2 3's a game. The fact that he is playing significant minutes is a problem that will limit this team all season (and probably piss off Will & Morez).

You have two 5 stars playing 15 minutes and 13 minutes. And Ben played 26. That's unacceptable, especially because these 5 star guys play hard and are extremely talented. AND after all the ho hum, I'm angry, throw chairs from Underwood about rebounding, Ben had ONE, let me say that again, ONE rebound in 26 minutes of play. Oh and 4 fouls (one of which was atrocious). The dude got beat off the dribble like he was stuck in mud against Klesmit of all people.

Again, I have no problem with Ben getting tick, but it should never exceed 15 minutes unless he's on an absolute heater.
 
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#204      
ptgrd23
With Dain, Coleman, Quincy, Ty and Amani gone this team lacks size/bulk

We have Tomas, Morez to replace them. Ben is really a tall SF at 6'9" 220. Tre is 6'7" 205. Of the 4 only Morez is really a banger.

Ben at 6'9" is guarding 4's and 5's. Probably not doing any worse than Luke did. Difference is Ben is in shooting slump (1-9 from 3 vs NW, 1-5 from 3 vs Wis).

If Ben hits is normal 40% from 3 we win at NW and nobody is complaining.
 
#205      
Chad Fleck
To my eye, Ben H has a similar problem that Goode had last year. The opponent hunts certain guys to get switched so Ben is the defender, then they break him down and cause issues. He's doesn't seem to be fast enough to handle any player resembling a guard. (Like Coleman was)

He also has a tough time squeezing rebounds.

I'm not willing to give up on him yet. But it's tough to watch him struggle at the moment.
 
#206      
SescIllini
Second place is 1st loser said:
Morez, under no circumstances, can be on the floor late. He's a 50% foul shooter and even the ones that he makes are loud. He needs to play, but until he settles in......you can't have him as a target too nbe fouled.
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Ok.. so the person who is on the floor needs to be a locked down FT shooter. Because we are giving up a ton on defense abd rebounding. Stats don't lie.
 
#207      
ChiefGritty
Illini2010-11 said:
Don't disagree there, but our struggles at Kohl started forming in the early 1990s and was not a Groce phenomenon:

1/25/90 - W 66-63
3/6/91 - L 77-85
2/20/92 - L 78-92
2/28/93 - L 66-74
1/25/94 - L 56-66
2/4/95 - L 60-73
2/12/97 - L 45-62
2/7/98 - W 53-47 (OT)
1/20/99 - L 53-75
1/8/00 - L 59-63
1/5/02 - L 66-72
3/5/03 - L 59-60
1/24/04 - L 56-76
1/25/05 - W 75-65
1/31/06 - W 66-51
1/10/08 - L 60-70
2/5/09 - L 50-63
2/9/10 - W 63-56
1/15/11 - L 66-76
3/4/12 - L 56-70
1/12/13 - L 51-74
1/8/14 - L 70-95
2/15/15 - L 49-68
2/21/16 - L 60-69
1/19/18 - L 50-75
2/18/19 - L 58-64
1/8/20 - W 71-70
2/27/21 - W 74-69
1/28/23 - W 61-51
3/2/24 - W 91-83

Prior to the current 4 game winning streak, the Illini were 5-21 at Kohl going back to 1990. Underwood has the same number of road wins at Wisconsin as his 4 predecessors combined (Kruger -1, Self -0 , Weber -3, and Groce -0). I had to do a double take on the Self statistic.
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The charge circle being drawn on the hardwood at the Kohl Center was like the statues of Sadaam Hussein being torn down when Baghdad fell.

Regime change. The old world is dead.
 
#208      
NarrowJ
Chad Fleck said:
To my eye, Ben H has a similar problem that Goode had last year. The opponent hunts certain guys to get switched so Ben is the defender, then they break him down and cause issues. He's doesn't seem to be fast enough to handle any player resembling a guard. (Like Coleman was)

He also has a tough time squeezing rebounds.

I'm not willing to give up on him yet. But it's tough to watch him struggle at the moment.
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I probably shouldn't be so uppity about some of the over-the-top criticisms of Ben. Like the person who responded to me earlier said- this is a fan forum and we have opinions.

I'm certainly not giving up on him after a couple of poor shooting nights. Domask was averaging like 9 a game on 32% shooting at this point last season. Also not thinking Ben will become 1st team B1G like MD but just saying we had a guy who really struggled the first 10-12 games and then turned it on.
 
#209      
Combo
ptgrd23 said:
With Dain, Coleman, Quincy, Ty and Amani gone this team lacks size/bulk

We have Tomas, Morez to replace them. Ben is really a tall SF at 6'9" 220. Tre is 6'7" 205. Of the 4 only Morez is really a banger.

Ben at 6'9" is guarding 4's and 5's. Probably not doing any worse than Luke did. Difference is Ben is in shooting slump (1-9 from 3 vs NW, 1-5 from 3 vs Wis).

If Ben hits is normal 40% from 3 we win at NW and nobody is complaining.
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He's not remotely quick enough to play SF.
 
#210      
Illini in Italy
NarrowJ said:
I probably shouldn't be so uppity about some of the over-the-top criticisms of Ben. Like the person who responded to me earlier said- this is a fan forum and we have opinions.

I'm certainly not giving up on him after a couple of poor shooting nights. Domask was averaging like 9 a game on 32% shooting at this point last season. Also not thinking Ben will become 1st team B1G like MD but just saying we had a guy who really struggled the first 10-12 games and then turned it on.
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Yes, but some are more odiferous than most . . .
 
#211      
Second place is 1st loser
SescIllini said:
Ok.. so the person who is on the floor needs to be a locked down FT shooter. Because we are giving up a ton on defense abd rebounding. Stats don't lie.
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If you're up 5 with 30 seconds to play, the only way you lose is missed free throws and turnovers. That's it. You cannot have a 50% free throw shooter on the floor. That goes for Kofi, Ty last year....can't have it. You can switch offense for defense, but that's on Brad and the timeout situation.
 
#213      
Guest
I don’t know where I heard this. I think it was on Werner and Piper’s post-game podcast. One of them mentioned that BH was 2 for 14 (3-point shots) the last two games, and yet he is still at around 35% for the season thus far. Not the advertised 40%, but still a respectable percentage, and he will get out of this slump eventually. They all do (don’t they?). Just hope it is sooner than later.
 
#214      
Fly Illini Fly!
Chad Fleck said:
To my eye, Ben H has a similar problem that Goode had last year. The opponent hunts certain guys to get switched so Ben is the defender, then they break him down and cause issues. He's doesn't seem to be fast enough to handle any player resembling a guard. (Like Coleman was)

He also has a tough time squeezing rebounds.

I'm not willing to give up on him yet. But it's tough to watch him struggle at the moment.
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As far as I remember, this wasn't much of an issue with Goode though...
 
#215      
Kenny67
WR is trying to find his way in college pwr5 bball. Much different than all everything in high school.
 
#216      
madillini4
mysterio2525 said:
Cheese curd and spotted cow in a basket!!!
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CHEESE CURD FROM A BASKET
IMG_0496.jpeg
 
#217      
TheodoreRex
ptgrd23 said:
With Dain, Coleman, Quincy, Ty and Amani gone this team lacks size/bulk

We have Tomas, Morez to replace them. Ben is really a tall SF at 6'9" 220. Tre is 6'7" 205. Of the 4 only Morez is really a banger.

Ben at 6'9" is guarding 4's and 5's. Probably not doing any worse than Luke did. Difference is Ben is in shooting slump (1-9 from 3 vs NW, 1-5 from 3 vs Wis).

If Ben hits is normal 40% from 3 we win at NW and nobody is complaining.
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Sure, but he didn't hit his percentage against NW or Wisconsin, does nothing else offensively, and is extremely slow footed on defense and doesn't rebound. He has 1 primary job and he's not doing it. He is paid a lot of $ to shoot the basketball. The grief he's getting is deserved.

He's 2-14 from 3 in the last two games. That's 14%...
 
#219      
Guest
illini0440 said:
I’d love for everyone to be able to sit in a film session with basketball and football…….heads would be spinning
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Heck, I would pay to see that. Better yet, offer this to the big-time donors, charge them appropriately, and put that money in the NIL pot.
 
#221      
ptgrd23
Combo said:
He's not remotely quick enough to play SF.
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Ben is taller version of Luke. I loved Luke's hustle and offensive rebounding but he lacked quickness and athleticism. Real issue is we had Quincy and Ty at 4 last year to bang in the paint. This year we just have Morez who has less offensive moves but more size than Ty. Funny they shoot the same FT%.

Riley / White / Davis are our SFs on this team.
 
#225      
Battle89
Guest said:
Heck, I would pay to see that. Better yet, offer this to the big-time donors, charge them appropriately, and put that money in the NIL pot.
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I wrote this same email earlier (minus the 'big-time'), figured if Brad & Co can put on the big Coaches for Cancer event they do, then they could do this.

But then I deleted it...though I'd get all excited about something like this, and then see the $$$$$$$ price tag and be reminded of my place in the world.

I don't disagree with you though, of course you need the big donors to make an impact.

Edit to acknowledge @thechampishere 's post. Curious as to how this event is organized and attendees targeted.
 
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