Can you all knock it off with bashing Ben Humrichous??? Goodness, You'd think we haven't been here before with a player.... like maybe as recently as, LAST YEAR with Domask!!! I'd write it off as all newbies to the forum not knowing any better, but a LOT you who are complaining have been around for a while. It's actually quite concerning the lack of faith most of you have. If you haven't learned anything since Brad Underwood has been here, then there is really no hope for you. You're just chronic pessimists and I'm concerned for your health and well-being. Chill my friends, chill... There will come a time to be concerned, that is NOT now!
Illinois 86, Wisconsin 80 Postgame
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I’m almost certain one factor is not giving up threes, with the exception of people we decided to dork.
agree and while some of if the looks from 3 were way off many were right there, in then out shots.
it will be easy for this team to win if we consistently shoot 35-37% from 3 of high volume but i love that theyre already showing grit and resiliency. look at how they responded to coach's emphasis on rebounding this game?
Just last week it was Tre White
I'm not sure I have seen him smile yet. I wouldn't try to read anything into his demeanor.
I think he is a taller Luke Goode. Good shooter (probably even better than Goode) but beat by his defender a lot (too soft on defense). I would reduce his minutes but keep him sharp. Can be very useful come tourney time.
Even with the defense deficiency, Goode was very useful last year in the tournament. Ben can be that, too.
Two weeks before that it was Boswell.
IMHO, BH is not a geat on ball defender against quicker players (like Coleman was). But, everytime I think we need to get him out of the there, he does something to help win. People should definitely go back and look at what Domask did before his breakout game against Northwestern in early January. It wasn't impressive, including 3pt shooting nights like 1-4, 1-5, 0-5, 0-7, he figured out the strengths (it wasn't his jump shot from distance) he had and used it the rest of the season. Ben is playing with basketball athletes like nothing he has ever even been on the same floor with. There is nobody else like him (age) on the team. Last year there were about 6 of those guys. Ben will figure out how to play with guys like KJ, WR, KB, and DGL. When to help and when to find an open spot for a 3PA. I generally ignore statistics, but consider this, Ben has the 2nd number of blocks, he is the only player with net positive STL/TO, he is shooting 35% on 3PA and if he had made just 2 more out of 56 attempts, his percentage would be 40%. I wonder if that would make people calm down? I just know that Brad has him on the floor at the end of the games. Must be a reason?
I agree. Now we know why BU wanted Tre on the roster and starting lineup. I don't think we can count on him for 23 every night, but he should be in double figures consistently. Also agree about Ben. He's an elite shooter from distance (Underwood's words) so he needs to let 'em fly. If you have a shooter's mentality, that's what you do.
I'm not arguing your point, and I keep seeing people say that statistically he is our best defender and I don't know. My only question is, why did BU keep subbing DGL in for him on defense at the end of the game if he is our best defender? I don't know either way, it was just a question that popped into my head in regards to this debate.
One thing I’ve been wondering about the NW game. Seems like a lot of people have been saying that teams are targeting Ben defensively and he is receiving a lot of blame for the NW loss. Looking at the box score, 3 NW players accounted for 60 of their 70 points. All those guys played more than 40 minutes. Ben played 39 minutes. So how did Ben guard all 3 guys all game even when he wasn’t in the game? Just curious.
Certainly Ben’s shooting did the Illini no favors, but sure seems like there were some other issues when it came to guarding those three. Who was Ben’s primary responsibility when on D?
Certainly Ben’s shooting did the Illini no favors, but sure seems like there were some other issues when it came to guarding those three. Who was Ben’s primary responsibility when on D?
One point that should be made is that we often choose (schematically) to not guard players at the 3 point line if they are low percentage shooters from there.
Then what happens is you have a career 29% three point shooter like Grant Nelson, Ben does not guard him at the 3 point line (exactly as we've scouted and game planned) and he then comes out and hits three of them in the first 5 minutes and then instead of the staff looking like fools for just letting him stand out there and get into a shot, the causal fan points the finger at the player. Who, again, is just doing as he'd been instructed. Same thing to a degree with Winter/Crowl. We were not staying home on them by design, and hey hey, they made some shots and made us pay for that. That's on the coaching/scouting, not on the player.
Another thing is when a player can't get through a screen and Ben gets stuck on a quick guard and they blow by him, that's on the initial defender that couldn't navigate the screen properly.
Then what happens is you have a career 29% three point shooter like Grant Nelson, Ben does not guard him at the 3 point line (exactly as we've scouted and game planned) and he then comes out and hits three of them in the first 5 minutes and then instead of the staff looking like fools for just letting him stand out there and get into a shot, the causal fan points the finger at the player. Who, again, is just doing as he'd been instructed. Same thing to a degree with Winter/Crowl. We were not staying home on them by design, and hey hey, they made some shots and made us pay for that. That's on the coaching/scouting, not on the player.
Another thing is when a player can't get through a screen and Ben gets stuck on a quick guard and they blow by him, that's on the initial defender that couldn't navigate the screen properly.
Bigtex
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Agree Ben took too much flack. In OT JK was switched on Barnhizer and I think they scored on every trip. I want to know why Illinois didn't double there and make someone else (who didn't score 60 of their 70 points) try and score
Same or similar approach the last couple of years - when Goode couldn't stop someone - Illinois kept switching till the other team got the matchup they wanted.
Bigtex
- DFW
Are the players taught to fight thru or switch? From my vantage point, it looks like they switch (I would say always but I am sure it is not 100%) the majority of times.
Time continuum? Need a flux capacitor?
I’m with you 100% I don’t know how Boswells man scores 0 and Ben somehow grades better
Depends on the personnel involved in the action. We wouldn't want to switch Ben on to Leach (Northwestern) for instance, but happened a few times because the guard didn't make it through the screen.
EDIT: Which I'll give both guys benefit of doubt there, really, because I think Nicholson has never set a legal screen in his whole life lol
Could you post those metrics?
Nicholson with the old "they can't call it every time" which he has been correct!
They're likely using DRtg or perhaps DPM. These are widely available on advanced statistic websites. Torvik also has some good rating systems for defense, but those are proprietary, I believe (if proprietary is even the right word... just meaning it is a Torvik-bred analytic).
They're NOT going to be using raw +/- for defensive ratings though, as was mentioned later on after that discussion/exchange from which you quoted.
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Agreed.
Also..for as "bad" as we supposedly guarded barnhizer/martinelli, they scored 43 points on 44 shots in that game
They avg 41 points on 30 shots...so basically they took FOURTEEN more shots to score just 2 more points than usual between them.
And so much handwringing of our kenpom 17th rated defense when we just sat through a year of the 80th best defense is just something else. SO far this is BU's highest defense since we had ayo/trent/DW/Kofi anchoring (that was a top 10 defense)
We've played nine games. Realistically only three of these teams have a chance at being in the NCAA tournament. The rest of our competition has been mediocre to downright awful. Being ranked 17th defensively against our schedule so far means exactly squat. What matters is how we have defended against teams who will compete for NCAA spots...against whom we've watched our team defend 4 v 5 while trying to carry a player who isn't quick enough to keep anyone in front of him, can't squeeze a rebound, and who can't keep his focus defensively. Can we play much better defense than we have? Sure. But it will take our coaches making some much needed adjustments in the amount of minutes our players play. And for those of you who are going to say that Morez and Will have had their issues defensively, yes, that's true, but there is clear potential for improvement there, where as in the case of Ben there just isn't. Will and Morez need to be playing the majority of the minutes at PF for so many reasons. To name two off the top of my head, they will improve with experience, and it's important for recruits we are chasing to see that we are willing to allow talented young players to learn on the job.
Outside of Alabama the shooting percentages for Arkansas, NW and Wisconson are combined 43% which is very good. Our SOS index is +0.48, which the positive number means above average. Go down in that same SOS index four spots below us and find a Tennessee team that is the #2 rated defense. Wouldn't write them off either, I think their defense is probably pretty good.
Well good thing your not the one making those decisions.
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