While we're comparing completely different players, anyone want to talk about how much better a dunker Dain Dainja is than Jaylon Tate?
Illinois 93, Wisconsin 87 - Big Ten Tournament Champions
pruman91
- Paducah, Ky
cool beans...................Haha all good Pru it’s an epic shot
Love watching the Danja Zone in action!
Agree, and the assist to turnover rate for the type of offense we run is inherently low. The real question about this entire argument is what are the other options for this team's ball handler if not Marcus Domask? All in all, it is likely the best option to have MD with the ball a large majority of the time. And, it certainly seems to be working considering we have one of the most efficient offenses in country.
I think it's probably cause they want to get shannon some rest but I'd be perfectly fine letting Shannon bring the ball down the court a bit and just immediately attack in the high pnr.
I think the combo of Domask, Shannon, and Rodgers is good enough to bring the ball down the court and they've got good size to the point where they can over pressure. !!!!, even Hawkins can bring the ball up the court and initiate the offense.
This is supposedly the 'human interest' angle that telecast directors seize upon. They know that many casual fans tune in who are not hoops junkies like we are. And these casual fans are looking for the 'human' side of things... the big smile... the angry face... the surprised face... whenever players or fans are hugging each other. These telecast directors are trying to play off our 'human nature' side of things and pull us into their presentation that way, Of course, we hoops junkies want to see the game action and we really don't care what anyone is doing on the sidelines unless it actually impacts the game.
So while this 'human interest' angle can be annoying when it is overdone... we just have to live with it. They probably won't change. Advertisers are paying a huge fortune to run commercials during these games and the network wants to make sure that the many casual fans do not drift away.
This kind of human-interest appeal is pretty much in every sports telecast now... even Mexican soccer. They love to show the angry and disgusted coach after the opposing team scores... or the joy on the scoring team's coaches face... and all the hugging and squeezing that the scoring team's players do after a goal in a joyous rapture of being in a human flesh pile. And the fans in the stands going into ecstacy... or agonizing pain.
One more point about the NCAA Tournament: Please, please, please stop saying, "They got Their ticket punched". That stuff was old years ago. Find some other way to say it. And whoever does say it runs the risk of having something ELSE punched.
Ahhh, makes way more sense. I attended the rally in '05, so that's why my brain connected the dots.
my man, are you purposely misreading? He is stating Kolek’s turnovers come from passing. Most PG’s you compare to MD will have their TO’s due to passing because they do not turn the ball over from handling it nearly as much as MD does. Most of MD’s turnovers are due to a lack of ball handling. Saying “usage vs TO rate shows he’s a good ball handler” isn’t an accurate statement simply because most PG’s are getting their turnovers from passing, not from lack of handles like MD. There is a reason why our points per possession goes up when we’re full court pressed instead of one guy guarding MD bringing the ball up, and that’s because it means we pass the ball more to get it up the court.You also seem to think that us saying MD has one fault and it’s ball handling that we’re coming for him as a player. We all love MD just as much as you, but are willing to admit he has weak handles for a player bringing the ball up the court.
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chiefini
- Rockford, Illinois
And Illini Nation appreciates you, Terrence. Who would have thunk it, in the fall of 2018 when our crew went to a scrimmage at Ubben to watch high school senior recruits Oscar Tshiebwe, EJ Liddell, and TSJ, with none of them choosing the Illini, that Terrence would end up being such a fabulous All-American at Illinois. It certainly wasn’t our crew who at the time thought TSJ was our definitive third choice of the three. I want it on record that I apologize for not believing in Terrence. I am so grateful to Brad that he stayed the course in his belief and brought TJ back to bring Illinois to the top, where he belongs.
You also seem to think that us saying MD has one fault and it’s ball handling that we’re coming for him as a player. We all love MD just as much as you, but are willing to admit he has weak handles for a player bringing the ball up the court.
I didn't misread anything. Stating that all of Kolek's turnovers come from passing is ridiculous and not worth responding to. Is this anecdotal from watching a game or two or are there stats to back this theory up?
I never said there is a MD witch hunt. So far, only two people disagree with me.
EDIT: Also I enjoy spirited debates, so not upset with anyone, but I know I can come off as argumentative/crass. I said Gritty was one of my favorite peeps on here, and I meant that. I know you and I have went back and forth on some things too, so just know I agree with you that we're all on the same team here.
I would like to give a comparison of Hepburn gaurding Braden Smith vs Domask. Smith and others like him rely on speed and quickness to be affective. When he can blow by someone and get separation it allows him to take it to the hoop or dish off for easy baskets. He also has a good pull up jumper game. Hepburn can stay in front of him and effectively shut that down. Smith was obviously frustrated and had no plan B so basically was taken out of the game. When I saw the problems Hepburn caused Purdue I wondered how we dealt with him the first time and how disruptive he would be yesterday. While he was a pest yesterday, he did not totally disrupt our offense like he did Purdue's. I think it comes down to this. Domask does not rely on quickness or speed by blowing by someone to be affective. Though if given the opportunity he will take it to the rack. He just puts them on his hip and works them to the goal (booty ball) and patiently pivots to get a good shot or shoots a fade away which is also a good shot for him. While Hepburn could stay in front of him he couldn't stop the slow back down into the paint making him less affective on Marcus. Also over the last several games Domask has gotten a lot better at finding the open man when the double comes limiting the times he gets bottled up forcing a turnover.
We don’t always agree but we do agree on our love for the Illini 🫡 which at the end of the day is all that matters
Well, I certainly disagree with your statement that MD is an elite ballhandler.
There's 3
Is that a witch hunt? Still no.
Elite ballhandler is maybe the wrong way to put it. He doesn't wow you with fancy dribbling and shifty moves. The turnover rate is as good as it gets though, for a guy with his usage rate.
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
Usage rate shows how often a player ends his team's possessions, either through a shot, drawing free throws, or turning the ball over.
It's NOT a measure of how much they have the ball in their hands, so it's pretty apples and oranges from a question of "ball security" (which seems to be the concept you're really driving at rather than "ballhandling" in like the Tim Hardaway, Jason Williams sense.)
True pass-first PG's are going to be low-usage despite always having the ball because they're looking to dish the "usage" to their teammates.
To kind of drive that home, you know who has a higher usage rate and a lower turnover percentage than Domask? Dain Dainja. (Shannon too, incidentally. And Zach Edey, Tyson Walker, Tominaga, AJ Storr, Jahmir Young, the underlying concept that Domask is a low-TO player is just kinda not true)
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On the Domask-as-ball-handler debate, he's not a ball-on-a-string, weave-through-a-crowd dribble/drive guy. That would be someone like Curbelo, who truly was an elite ball handler (and could also be careless with the ball). But I feel most assured with the ball in Domask's hands over anyone else on this team. It's because he's so good at using his big body and strength to shield the ball from usually smaller guards. He's able to overpower someone like Hepburn, who has to try to get around MD's bigger body and longer arms to swipe at the ball. That's a lot more distance a defender has to travel, and MD will simply spin his rump around and have a clear path to the basket (where he can either shoot or pass to a now-open man when their defender if forced to pick up MD).
Here's 4.
IMO, his turnover rate is low because his decision making is elite, not his handles.
I'll also say that comparing MD's usage rate is more pass-first type of point guards isn't the best comparison.
I think we should stick to comparing similar players, doesn't drive home any point for me. Dainja doesn't bring the ball up and doesn't ISO from the 3 pt line. Look at how it is calculated.
Marcus looks to drive to the hoop more often rather than pass, so could one make the argument that he is actually dribbling the ball more, and still somehow turns it over less? As far as how much both guys have the ball? I'd say its comparable. Don't forget Kam Jones also has the rock a lot for them and they use their big on offense.
Absolutely do not want to use any further message board real estate on this argument, though. We've littered it quite well enough thus far.
Marcus looks to drive to the hoop more often rather than pass, so could one make the argument that he is actually dribbling the ball more, and still somehow turns it over less? As far as how much both guys have the ball? I'd say its comparable. Don't forget Kam Jones also has the rock a lot for them and they use their big on offense.
Absolutely do not want to use any further message board real estate on this argument, though. We've littered it quite well enough thus far.
I kind of hate that the Selection Show is like ten minutes after the BTT ends. If this game was on Saturday, we'd get a whole day to savor it and celebrate it for what it is. As it is, all the focus shifts to the NCAA Tournament Bracket before the trophy is even handed off.
RichardKeenesCousin
Richard Keene's Cousin
Star Wars GIFs are undefeated!