Not following that one. Why didn't we come close to making the tournament this year then? Are injuries a valid excuse or not?
Illinois Basketball 2016-2017
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Not following that one. Why didn't we come close to making the tournament this year then? Are injuries a valid excuse or not?
Joel Goodson
- respect my decision™
Stop talking sense, the mob won't heed it.
Sal Iacuzzo
- Yonkers, NY
Michigan has had a ton of injuries the last two years yet remained competitive
Well, I'd say for one thing Finke , JCL, DJ and Jordan won't be freshmen . Nichols who would be will have what amounts to a redshirt season , Hill enough said and Morgan hoping he learns to jump . Along with Black ( i'm not counting on Nunn ). I would wager Groce is beating the bushes hard to find a 5th year big or JC big to bridge the gap after next year , I would be . After that IF he can land Tilmon , Goodwin and another big THEN we're off and rolling. Sounds simple eh ? Oh I expect TJL to be running the show by B10 season too.
Another thing , if Groce can land everybodys dream recruits so to speak the 5th yr. guy and t-fers are probably done . And THATS what I'd love to see.
A ton on injuries but they still had decent front court players, a quality Big Ten point guard, and length and athleticism at every other position.
We can agree on that...the end of reliance on 5th years and transfers. The rest seems like a tall order.
dsboyce
- Golden, IL
Well, here's why I say that...
we didn't have Thorne or black this year anyway, so we would be in the same position going into next year, except Mav made great strides during the season and will be better, Finke will be stronger, and we will surely add a 5th year big for depth at least. Plus we add Nichols who is allegedly going to be playing the 4, as well as having a sophomore DJW with a summer in the weight room. So I think we will be better at the 4/5 than what we were able to put on the court in 2015/16.
We would be replacing tate/lewis with abrams/TJL. I don't think that requires much explanation as to why that is preferable.
The loss of Nunn at the 2/3 guard spot would hurt, no doubt, but you will have a sophomore JCL ready to play more minutes, a sophomore Aaron Jordan hopefully ready to contribute more, Malcolm Hill playing more minutes at his natural position thanks to depth at the 4, and DJW as a sophomore too splitting time between the 3 and 4.
So yeah, I think barring another barrage of injuries we will be much better and deeper next year, even in a worst case scenario where we lose all 4 of those previously mentioned players. PG play and depth were our 2 biggest issues this year IMO, and they should both be improved. Start adding any of those players back to the roster and we could be very good
Captain Bubbles
- Fairfield, IL
Alright. Some random thoughts on Thursday night because I feel like it:
1) If he doesn't get the redshirt, employ Big Mike Thorne as an assistant coach where he can help out the bigs. Think Maverick Morgan and how he credited him in his development.
2) I want to see a bulked up D.J. Williams and rock and roll like Donkey Kong. I want to see Aaron Jordan fly high and dunk it like swiss cheese through a grater, and increase his ppg in a shooting role.
3) Malcolm Hill has an old man's game that reminds me of Larry Bird in some ways. He's gonna get more accolades and possibly get drafted in the NBA if he keeps it up. Ranked in the top 20 of SF's in DraftExpress.
4) Here's hoping for a full healthy Abrams to lead this squad to greener pastures...yes, the NCAA Tournament.
5) I understand the whole deal with Black, Nunn, and Tate. Still innocent until proven guilty. Wait and see who returns, sad to say. I have a feeling Tate and Black will, but Nunn is the bigger question mark of the three.
6) Neal Doughty founded REO Speedwagon in 1967, and since the 50th anniversary of the founding is coming up, have a Bobblehead Night, a halftime concert, a real concert....just something to recognize them and their achievements. Have an REO Speedwagon night.
7) Finally, combes should be a Secret Service Agent. He possesses this mysterious aura, yet is so good with his posts.
That's all I've got on this Thursday night.
1) If he doesn't get the redshirt, employ Big Mike Thorne as an assistant coach where he can help out the bigs. Think Maverick Morgan and how he credited him in his development.
2) I want to see a bulked up D.J. Williams and rock and roll like Donkey Kong. I want to see Aaron Jordan fly high and dunk it like swiss cheese through a grater, and increase his ppg in a shooting role.
3) Malcolm Hill has an old man's game that reminds me of Larry Bird in some ways. He's gonna get more accolades and possibly get drafted in the NBA if he keeps it up. Ranked in the top 20 of SF's in DraftExpress.
4) Here's hoping for a full healthy Abrams to lead this squad to greener pastures...yes, the NCAA Tournament.
5) I understand the whole deal with Black, Nunn, and Tate. Still innocent until proven guilty. Wait and see who returns, sad to say. I have a feeling Tate and Black will, but Nunn is the bigger question mark of the three.
6) Neal Doughty founded REO Speedwagon in 1967, and since the 50th anniversary of the founding is coming up, have a Bobblehead Night, a halftime concert, a real concert....just something to recognize them and their achievements. Have an REO Speedwagon night.
7) Finally, combes should be a Secret Service Agent. He possesses this mysterious aura, yet is so good with his posts.
That's all I've got on this Thursday night.
how about last year? when we had a tournament team that wet the bed and gave up double digit leads against Oregon Mich and Purdue, and then flat out quit on groce to end the season? what type of successful team coaching did you see this year? what growth in leadership? what discipline or instillation of court smarts? this coaching staff had added almost zero value to the personnel we did have on the court. show me clear examples of coaching prowess, I am willing to learn, but I frankly don't see it. Rutgers took us to overtime.
this team has a lot of talent when healthy. okay. the team with enough talent to beat Purdue and Iowa lost to Penn State Nebraska (again), Northwestern. They got taken To overtime by minny and Rutgers. they blew halftime leads multiple times. and they routinely got blown out by other tourney teams. they had the talent to win. you said it yourself. but mostly they didn't. individuals grew but there was no consistent discernible growth as a team on either end of the floor. is all explained by injury? wake up.
blackdog
- Champaign
If you think there was no growth by the team then you weren't watching the game. The way this team got lit up on the defensive end at the start of the season was terrible. The way they defended to end the season was leaps and bounds ahead of that. Every single player was better on that end of the court. On ball defense was better, help side rotations were better, rebounding position was better. If they had played the way they had at the beginning of the season during BIG play they would have given up 100 every single game.
Sal Iacuzzo
- Yonkers, NY
what quality pg did they have when walton missed half a season?
we have sub par athleticism across the board, that's on groce.
Maybe someone can refresh my memory, but I don't think Michigan had nearly the same amount of injuries that we did. But even if they did, it's not really comparable. Our program is trying to rebuild while Beilien just took Michigan to the national title. It's possible to overcome injuries when you have a stable program. Also, they were expected to compete for big ten championships the past 2 years, and ended up out of the tournament then barely squeaked in this year. So yes they were competitive, but they still took a huge drop because they expected to be much more than that.
Last year, Groce was still trying to correct the mess he acquired from Weber. We had 2 stop gap transfers, our best player (Hill) was playing out of position, our starting PG was out for the season, and the one stop gap transfer (Cosby) went from shooting 40% 3pt to <20%. I agree last year was a disappoint, but it wasn't as bad as you make it sound.
That's where the injuries hurt the most. We didn't have the depth to consistently play at a high level.
This is a little different than football, though I am not disagreeing with you. The defensive/offensive philosophy is all Groce. Parham, Walker, and Ford all have groups of players they develop, but it's not the same as a defensive coordinator in football. It's hard to say what an assistant coach shakeup would do. Would it make Groce's job harder since its not his guy(s)? Would it spark interest in the team? Would it hinder or help with certain recruits?
Personally, I just say they are all on the same chopping block. Get us to the tournament next year or you're all gone.
Sal Iacuzzo
- Yonkers, NY
Well their best player missed huge chunks of the last two seasons. Irvin has been dealing with a back injury during that time. Walton missed half of last season. Albrecht had a career ending injury. I'd say Michigan has had worse luck due to most of their success predicated on Levert being healthy. Our best players have been healthy a luxury Michigan hasn't had.
re: #6 -- this sounds more like something for a football pre or postgame...
good take. I also would like to see a 5th yr big (if Thorne isn't back) and pg assuming we find a scholarship this year. I think we have too many questions/risks at both positions to sit idle & hope for the best. An impact freshman big would have worked as well, but that ship has sailed.
I'm not feeling very good about the 4 without Black. We were a terrible rebounding and defensive team last year, Black gives us an edge that Finke & Morgan don't. Maybe Kipper can do that as well, just not sure and we shouldn't expect a redshirt freshman who may miss the first semester to be a savior here. I think DJW is a long way from being even serviceable as a stretch 4. If we lose any bigs, be it Thorne, Black, or whoever we need to plug the hole with the best big we can find.
On Big recruits in 2016...saw references to some Jr college options, just doesn't sound like we are pursuing
I'm sure we are looking at every option possible at this point, but many of these kids already have committed or have at least a short list that doesn't include us at this point. But think back to Froling and Kipper, both popped up out of nowhere. Just because we haven't heard anything, doesn't mean the staff isn't beating the bushes to find someone. Right now we are full, but the staff has a better idea on who will be back and who might not be. We need a decision on Thorne, if he isn't back we need best available big to replace him. If someone else is gone, it is an opportunity to get better at pg or big. But right now regardless of what you think might happen the staff is absolutely lining up options for bigs and a pg to fill any potential open scholarships with the best option available. At this point, I would bet on a 5th yr transfer as most likely, but JC, regular transfer, or freshman would be welcome as well if someone falls in your lap and can help.
I think the truth is somewhere in between here. We lost our 3 best bigs last year & are only chance at a reasonable pg.
If we lose both Thorne and Black, it depends on who we get to replace them. Even at the end of the season, with Mav playing better and Finke surprising people we weren't nearly good enough or deep enough at big to be good. Kipper may surprise, but we need to add 2 decent bigs back and how good they are, will matter a lot.
If we lose Nunn that will hurt, we need him, but we have depth at wing and can probably survive this. If we get his scholarship in time to upgrade big or pg we could be better overall.
If we lose Tate this year, we are alright, considering Malcolm was playing ahead of him at pg towards the end of the season, he is a backup plan only at this point. We need to be significantly better at pg next season, that is Abrams back fully, TJL coming along quickly, that is not JT at this point. You add a 5th yr pg or cg with his schollie if you can upgrade over TJL or Abrams next year or look to cover risks at big.
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