Illinois Basketball 2016-2017

RedRocksIllini · Feb 26, 2016

illini8507 said:
What are the weaknesses of the team right now?

PG play
Post depth
Defense
Rebounding

I don't think there's any question that Abrams, TJL, and Tate is a better pg rotation than Tate and Lewis. Even if Tracy is only 75% he is still a better threat to shoot and as a 6th yr senior his leadership on the court will be unmatched.

Right now we only have Finke and Mav in the post, with Malcolm playing out of position filling in. Next year we will have Black back, and you have to assume we will pick up at least a warm body via transfer or a flier on a HS recruit. We will also have the option to play DJW at the 4 in a 4 guard lineup depending on matchups, and I think we also all expect Nichols to get some time playing the 4 too.

Our defense will hopefully be improved with our sophomore class making the normal improvements, as well as having less tired legs due to more depth throughout the lineup. Finke should be a better defender in the post with added weight and experience, and Black will make us better there as well. Depending on Tracys health we should be better at keeping other PG's out of the lane, and by all accounts TJL is a good defender as well.

Rebounding is what I see as our main weakness, although it should be improved from this year. Black will help immensely in that area, and Finke should gain some weight and be better able to hold position as well. I think at this point Mav probably is what he is in regards to rebounding. I think the potential to be much improved exists depending on who we get to fill that last scholarship as a big.

One thing I do know, we should be deep on the wings:
Hill
Nunn
JCL
AJ
DJW
Nichols

Hopefully we stay healthy and Malcolm can play almost exclusively on the wing where he belongs

Agree with all these weaknesses, but imo, the biggest weakness we've had for the past 3 seasons has been a complete lack of leadership on the court. Often, but not always, that comes from the PG and that has clearly been a problem area for us. I honestly think the only way we show much improvement as a team next year is if Tracy carries this team with leadership and I don't have much confidence in that happening given what I've seen from Abrams in the past and that he's coming off 2 years of down time and 2 serious injuries. He'll be totally over the knee injury but a torn Achilles is a tough injury to come back from.

Adnarel · Feb 26, 2016

Ransom Stoddard said:
Wouldn't Thorne have already had a senior night at Charlotte?

Bingo.

StateFarmCenter · Feb 26, 2016

He didn't go through the ceremonies at Charlotte, if that's what is being questioned.

geneseo · Feb 26, 2016

BDoug said:
It's a perfectly solid stat. It just doesn't fit your narrative about Lewis...so you deem it overrated.

Lewis and Tate have combined in conference play for 74 assists and 24 turnovers. Rest of team 111 and 135, respectively.

URH Snyder 490 · Feb 26, 2016

Hopefully the Thorne thing can drag on just enough to hurt our ability to bring another 5th year guy next year before it gets rejected.

CAHALL15 · Feb 27, 2016

I'm curious how all of this goes. Does Black stay on the team? Does Thorne get a hardship waiver? Does Tracy come back in decent form? Do we get another 5th year big? If it's a yes to those questions and we don't have a continuation of the injury bug, we should have a good team.

I understand that's a whole lot of ifs, but I'm excited to see the offseason progression in our returning guy's especially the current freshman in addition to Lucas and Nichols.

In an ideal world:

C: Thorne/Morgan or 5th year
PF: Black/Finke or 5th year/Kipper
SF: Hill/Kipper or DJW/Jordan
SG: Nunn/JCL/Jordan
PG: Abrams or JCL/Lucas/Tate

jrichisamazing · Feb 27, 2016

I think DJW will mainly play the 4 next year. He's long enough and athletic enough to defend and rebound at that position. Plus Hill will probably be playing 30+ minutes at the 3 and I have a feeling AJ will be much better next year. DJW could find some time at the 3 if JCL or Hill have to play PG, or AJ doesn't make the sophomore leap.

samtheman10 · Feb 27, 2016

CAHALL15 said:
I'm curious how all of this goes. Does Black stay on the team? Does Thorne get a hardship waiver? Does Tracy come back in decent form? Do we get another 5th year big? If it's a yes to those questions and we don't have a continuation of the injury bug, we should have a good team.

I understand that's a whole lot of ifs, but I'm excited to see the offseason progression in our returning guy's especially the current freshman in addition to Lucas and Nichols.

In an ideal world:

C: Thorne/Morgan or 5th year
PF: Black/Finke or 5th year/Kipper
SF: Hill/Kipper or DJW/Jordan
SG: Nunn/JCL/Jordan
PG: Abrams or JCL/Lucas/Tate

On paper, this team should compete at a high level. This roster would have experience (4 sr's in starting 5), athleticism, length, and depth, which are all things I like.

illini8507 · Feb 28, 2016

samtheman10 said:
On paper, this team should compete at a high level. This roster would have experience (4 sr's in starting 5), athleticism, length, and depth, which are all things I like.

We are so due for some decent luck.

combes · Mar 1, 2016

CAHALL15 said:
That's not a very good "dream class." I don't see Scruggs, Wilkes, or Bowen on that list.

Also, in light of the Leron Black incident, I no longer would pursue Verge if there are any character concerns. Also, we'll have a 1-3 in 2017 that consists of DJW, Kipper, Jordan, Coleman Lands, Lucas, Pickett, and Williams. Goodwin still makes sense to me because of his versatility and a guy that brings a ton of toughness to a team. Williams could play some point so unless it's another top flight guy like Scruggs, we'll actually have some options.

According to a guy I know who sees some practices, Kipper is a four. He is playing the four in practice and projects as a four in the Powell mold.

Butkuser · Mar 1, 2016

combes said:
According to a guy I know who sees some practices, Kipper is a four. He is playing the four in practice and projects as a four in the Powell mold.

How big is he again?

Butkuser · Mar 1, 2016

chief2007 said:
6' 6"

I hope he is Charles Barkleyesque on the boards.

Greensboro · Mar 1, 2016

combes said:
According to a guy I know who sees some practices, Kipper is a four. He is playing the four in practice and projects as a four in the Powell mold.

He looks like he could play some 4, but I'm always a bit skeptical on if he is a 4 because we need a big and that is what we want him to be or if 4 is where he really belongs.

combes · Mar 1, 2016

Greensboro said:
He looks like he could play some 4, but I'm always a bit skeptical on if he is a 4 because we need a big and that is what we want him to be or if 4 is where he really belongs.

Powell was 6-6. Robert Bennett was 6-6. Kenny Battle was 6-5. Brian Randle was 6-7.

He is an inch shorter than Leron Black who is considered a classic four.

I was told that the coaches consider him to be a four. He is playing the four. He projects as a four for next year according to what I am being told.

aluma · Mar 1, 2016

It would be such an unexpected gift to get Kipper at the start of the season next year. We will be desperate to get him on the court asap. I wonder how long Lucas' injury is projected to take to heal?

Second and Chalmers · Mar 1, 2016

aluma said:
It would be such an unexpected gift to get Kipper at the start of the season next year. We will be desperate to get him on the court asap.

Will we? He's behind a ton of guys on the wing. I wouldn't expect to hear much of anything from him next year.

soupy17 · Mar 1, 2016

Second and Chalmers said:
Will we? He's behind a ton of guys on the wing. I wouldn't expect to hear much of anything from him next year.

He would be playing at the 4, not the 2-3 on the wing, and Leron's status for next season could be up in the air depending on how his current situation plays out.

combes · Mar 1, 2016

soupy17 said:
He would be playing at the 4, not the 2-3 on the wing, and Leron's status for next season could be up in the air depending on how his current situation plays out.

Yep, depends on Black being back. With Black, Kipper is probably the third power forward. Or fourth if they still slide Hill there at times.

TCTORNADO · Mar 1, 2016

combes said:
Powell was 6-6. Robert Bennett was 6-6. Kenny Battle was 6-5. Brian Randle was 6-7.

He is an inch shorter than Leron Black who is considered a classic four.

I was told that the coaches consider him to be a four. He is playing the four. He projects as a four for next year according to what I am being told.

Groce has numerous times stated that the key to Nichols is versatility. The two times I saw him in HS, he put the ball on the floor extremely well. He has the ability to shoot the 3 well. He started @ St. Ed's as a guard.
His defending skills are excellent.
So he'll be on the floor next year whether he's a 3,4,5 or for that matter a 2.

TCTORNADO · Mar 1, 2016

Second and Chalmers said:
Will we? He's behind a ton of guys on the wing. I wouldn't expect to hear much of anything from him next year.

Huh??

Tevo · Mar 1, 2016

combes said:
Powell was 6-6. Robert Bennett was 6-6. Kenny Battle was 6-5. Brian Randle was 6-7.

He is an inch shorter than Leron Black who is considered a classic four.

I was told that the coaches consider him to be a four. He is playing the four. He projects as a four for next year according to what I am being told.

What do you mean? Don't mince words, Harry!

Second and Chalmers · Mar 1, 2016

soupy17 said:
He would be playing at the 4, not the 2-3 on the wing, and Leron's status for next season could be up in the air depending on how his current situation plays out.

We're relying on a 6'6" freshman wing to give us big minutes at the 4?

I would feel better giving basically anyone else those minutes. Hill, DJW, Finke, whoever.

Obelix · Mar 1, 2016

combes said:
Powell was 6-6. Robert Bennett was 6-6. Kenny Battle was 6-5. Brian Randle was 6-7.

Brian Randle was never a PF (4) and really did not play much PF unless of course you mean the disaster of 2007-8 season, which would actually support the opposite argument (i.e., not to play out of position). In 2003-04, Augustine and Powell played 4-5, in 2005-06 it was Augustine and Pruitt, and in 2006-7 Pruitt and Carter. Randle was really a SF who played out of necessity at 4 on occasions and in 2007-8 similar to Hill playing PF much of his career. There is unfortunately a common theme in those situations, not making the tournament.

Height is not the only factor, I think Greensboro's concern is a valid one, whether Nichols is really PF or one of one who will be playing out of position because of lack of players at 4-5.

Jreed322 · Mar 1, 2016

Second and Chalmers said:
We're relying on a 6'6" freshman wing to give us big minutes at the 4?

I would feel better giving basically anyone else those minutes. Hill, DJW, Finke, whoever.

He's a 6'6" freshman who's already had a hear and a half of practice, collegiate lifting, etc. it's not like he's a true freshman that we're counting on to carry the load. Expecting 20-30 mpg of solid production in the rebounding and defensive categories along with a couple buckets isn't that much to ask from the kid especially given the talent around him.

Second and Chalmers · Mar 1, 2016

Jreed322 said:
Expecting 20-30 mpg of solid production

Would be a crazy expectation for a three-star freshman we snatched from the clutches of Tulane, IMO, even if he wasn't likely to be buried on the depth chart by other good options.

And if he doesn't play in the first semester, it's even less likely that he'll make a meaningful dent in the rotation.

If Black is no longer part of the equation, that alters things, but only mildly. We're probably going to want to have Hill, Nunn and JCL on the floor together next year to the extent possible, so that will have Hill as a nominal 4 for a lot of time.

Illinois Basketball 2016-2017

Orange Crush '89