Illinois Basketball 2016-2017

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#251      
He's a 6'6" freshman who's already had a hear and a half of practice, collegiate lifting, etc. it's not like he's a true freshman that we're counting on to carry the load. Expecting 20-30 mpg of solid production in the rebounding and defensive categories along with a couple buckets isn't that much to ask from the kid especially given the talent around him.

I would think there is very little chance that he gets 20-30 minutes. If Black returns, he will be behind Black and Finke at the four. If he plays some wing, he will be behind Hill, Nunn, JCL, Jordan, and Williams to start the year.
I hope that I am wrong and he takes minutes from everyone because that means he is really good.
 
#253      
Would be a crazy expectation for a three-star freshman we snatched from the clutches of Tulane, IMO, even if he wasn't likely to be buried on the depth chart by other good options.

And if he doesn't play in the first semester, it's even less likely that he'll make a meaningful dent in the rotation.

If Black is no longer part of the equation, that alters things, but only mildly. We're probably going to want to have Hill, Nunn and JCL on the floor together next year to the extent possible, so that will have Hill as a nominal 4 for a lot of time.

It's probably too early to determine, still too much to shake out. Will Black be with the team? Will Thorne get a waiver? Will Illinois land another transfer big?

I agree that they're going to want to have JCL, Nunn, and Hill on the floor as much as possible. So that basically leaves Nichols out of the immediate rotation unless the answer is "no" to all three of those questions and we need his physicality too badly to leave off the floor.
 
#254      
Would be a crazy expectation for a three-star freshman we snatched from the clutches of Tulane, IMO, even if he wasn't likely to be buried on the depth chart by other good options.

And if he doesn't play in the first semester, it's even less likely that he'll make a meaningful dent in the rotation.

If Black is no longer part of the equation, that alters things, but only mildly. We're probably going to want to have Hill, Nunn and JCL on the floor together next year to the extent possible, so that will have Hill as a nominal 4 for a lot of time.

Held offers from Maryland, Florida, Xavier, Butler, Clemson, Dayton, Minnesota, Nebraska, Northwestern, Penn State, St. Joe's and reported interest from Michigan State and Wisconsin.

I do think 20-30 minutes is a stretch but if Black is out, I could realistically see him giving 10-15 minutes a game at the 4, similar to what DJ's contribution has been this season.
 
#255      
Held offers from Maryland, Florida, Xavier, Butler, Clemson, Dayton, Minnesota, Nebraska, Northwestern, Penn State, St. Joe's and reported interest from Michigan State and Wisconsin.

I do think 20-30 minutes is a stretch but if Black is out, I could realistically see him giving 10-15 minutes a game at the 4, similar to what DJ's contribution has been this season.

If he can play defense and rebound he will play.
 
#256      
Powell was 6-6. Robert Bennett was 6-6. Kenny Battle was 6-5. Brian Randle was 6-7.

He is an inch shorter than Leron Black who is considered a classic four.

I was told that the coaches consider him to be a four. He is playing the four. He projects as a four for next year according to what I am being told.

I don't doubt what you are saying and I hope he can be a great 4, just over the last decade we have tried to make every SG we had into a pg because we needed one so badly. Just wondering aloud if we are trying to push Kipper to the 4 because we are short on bigs or that is really his best position.
 
#257      
Held offers from Maryland, Florida, Xavier, Butler, Clemson, Dayton, Minnesota, Nebraska, Northwestern, Penn State, St. Joe's and reported interest from Michigan State and Wisconsin.

His final three were Tulane, Butler, and Northwestern. So it's fair to say that Tulane wasn't his ceiling in terms of his offer list, but I'll eat my hat if he had committable offers from Maryland or Florida.

It always amazes me the way every player is the perfect diamond in the rough superstar for this board until they actually take the floor, at which point they are forgotten about and their flaws are assumed to be immutable.

We very well might have all of these fairytale traits you guys are ascribing to the freshman Kipper Nichols next year. They'll just be residing in the bodies of Michael Finke, DJ Williams, and most of all, all-purpose veteran stud Malcolm Hill, whose chances of going from here to B1G POY are much better than Nichols' of being a key contributor.
 
#258      
His final three were Tulane, Butler, and Northwestern. So it's fair to say that Tulane wasn't his ceiling in terms of his offer list, but I'll eat my hat if he had committable offers from Maryland or Florida.

It always amazes me the way every player is the perfect diamond in the rough superstar for this board until they actually take the floor, at which point they are forgotten about and their flaws are assumed to be immutable.

We very well might have all of these fairytale traits you guys are ascribing to the freshman Kipper Nichols next year. They'll just be residing in the bodies of Michael Finke, DJ Williams, and most of all, all-purpose veteran stud Malcolm Hill, whose chances of going from here to B1G POY are much better than Nichols' of being a key contributor.

Amen. The extent to which this kind of thinking re backup players, players sitting out, incoming 3 stars, etc. pervades the board is insane. to my recollection, we've had one truly stellar player emerge out of all of the less heralded recruits who came in and had amazing "practice reports", and that's Rayvonte Rice, who averaged like 17 ppg previously in a decent midmajor conference, transformed his body, and was apparently competing with a legit stud Brandon Paul in practice for best player on the team status during his sit out year.

Unless I'm hearing that Kipper is owning Malcolm Hill in practice on both ends, I'm not gonna get too excited. As someone else said, hopefully he'll play d and rebound and give us a few good minutes a game next year, and maybe over time develop into a really solid rotation guy.

In the absence of direct and convincing evidence that a low profile recruit is going to be awesome (read: actual game clips/stats of him owning legitimate competition; Coach K knocking on his door late to sign him; him shooting up rankings late, etc.), the expectation with 3* recruits needs to be that maybe we'll have someone decent. If that player turns out to be Trey Burke, fabulous. But that can never be the expectation.
 
#259      
We're relying on a 6'6" freshman wing to give us big minutes at the 4? :eek:

Look I am not going to sit here and say that Kipper is the savior that we have all been waiting on, but as well, Kipper will be a Freshman next year only in terms of eligibility. Unlike TJL, Kipper will have been in the system for a year when he is able to play his first game (unless he gets a waiver). Unlike incoming freshmen, he should have a much better grasp on our offensive and defensive sets. He will have spent a year in a B1G Ten Strenth program. As much as you feel that people are over estimating his potential, it seems that you are doing your best to make it sound as there is no way he can contribute. My best guess is that the reality of his impact will be somewhere between the extremes!
 
#260      
Amen. The extent to which this kind of thinking re backup players, players sitting out, incoming 3 stars, etc. pervades the board is insane. to my recollection, we've had one truly stellar player emerge out of all of the less heralded recruits who came in and had amazing "practice reports", and that's Rayvonte Rice, who averaged like 17 ppg previously in a decent midmajor conference, transformed his body, and was apparently competing with a legit stud Brandon Paul in practice for best player on the team status during his sit out year.

Unless I'm hearing that Kipper is owning Malcolm Hill in practice on both ends, I'm not gonna get too excited. As someone else said, hopefully he'll play d and rebound and give us a few good minutes a game next year, and maybe over time develop into a really solid rotation guy.

In the absence of direct and convincing evidence that a low profile recruit is going to be awesome (read: actual game clips/stats of him owning legitimate competition; Coach K knocking on his door late to sign him; him shooting up rankings late, etc.), the expectation with 3* recruits needs to be that maybe we'll have someone decent. If that player turns out to be Trey Burke, fabulous. But that can never be the expectation.

While I agree some tend to put way too high expectations on transfers, or even 3* range players, I do like what I see from Kipper. Looks to have above average handles and a nice mid-range game. What stands out to me is his athletic ability. Seems that he has some nice bounce and tries to dunk the ball when he's around the rim. We haven't had someone like that since I cant remember. When was the last time we ran an alley-oop play within our offense that ended in a dunk? I know that we haven't exactly had the right personnel to run plays like that (it starts with a capable point guard), but Kipper appears to be part of that equation. We need a guy that can consistently throw down a nasty dunk, or even a block on defense, and spark a run. Hopefully he's that guy.

I do really like the Roger Powell comparison, but Kipper may have better handles than Roger. On top of that, his workout regiment looks crazy. I for one am excited to see what he can do.

https://youtu.be/EXyJ4MpBQXQ
 
#262      
His final three were Tulane, Butler, and Northwestern. So it's fair to say that Tulane wasn't his ceiling in terms of his offer list, but I'll eat my hat if he had committable offers from Maryland or Florida.

It always amazes me the way every player is the perfect diamond in the rough superstar for this board until they actually take the floor, at which point they are forgotten about and their flaws are assumed to be immutable.

We very well might have all of these fairytale traits you guys are ascribing to the freshman Kipper Nichols next year. They'll just be residing in the bodies of Michael Finke, DJ Williams, and most of all, all-purpose veteran stud Malcolm Hill, whose chances of going from here to B1G POY are much better than Nichols' of being a key contributor.

It always amazes me how "meaningful minutes" turns into "the perfect diamond in the rough superstar". I must have missed several posts claiming Kipper fits that profile. It's not unreasonable to think he might see playing time at the four next year if Black is gone. Nobody said he was our Trey Burke...

Freshman consistently struggle with two things...strength and defense. Doesn't seem Kipper fits that typical freshman mold. Plus he'll have an entire year with the team to learn the offensive and defensive schemes. He might play, he might not...but suggesting he'll get productive minutes (10 a game?) on a team that is 3 games below five hundred, with Black's status up in the air, is not that crazy. We obviously need help.
 
#263      
Plus he'll have an entire year with the team to learn the offensive and defensive schemes.

If the way we've been playing is any indication of the effectiveness of those schemes, I just hope he has not been paying attention in practice. :D
 
#264      
And if he doesn't play in the first semester, it's even less likely that he'll make a meaningful dent in the rotation.

This is a key factor, if he's not eligible until after the end of first semester, it's going to be more difficult to work him into the regular rotation. Not impossible, but the coaches will want to have those worked out during the non-conference schedule. And there's no shortage of competition at the 3/4 position.
 
#265      
Also, if we have Black and Thorne (or a 5th year big replacement), our rotation is overcrowded as it is.

Abrams
TJL
JCL
Nunn
Hill
DJW
Black
Finke
Mav
Thorne

10 guys! Too many, probably. And that's shunting Aaron Jordan out, who has shown flashes on a college floor, something Nichols is yet to do.

I think I'm being misinterpreted here. I'm not saying Kipper can't ever be productive, I'm saying there are both player-based and roster-based reasons to think he won't have a big role to play on next year's team, good bad or indifferent.
 
#266      
This is a key factor, if he's not eligible until after the end of first semester, it's going to be more difficult to work him into the regular rotation. Not impossible, but the coaches will want to have those worked out during the non-conference schedule. And there's no shortage of competition at the 3/4 position.
The rotations can change quite a bit during the season, as proven by DJW getting more and more minutes as this season has progressed (and being productive in those minutes).
 
#267      
The rotations can change quite a bit during the season, as proven by DJW getting more and more minutes as this season has progressed (and being productive in those minutes).

Of course, it's just less likely that a guy who's not played at all will become a significant part of it during the middle of the season. And DJW's improvement is another reason Nichols may have an uphill battle. :)
 
#268      
The rotations can change quite a bit during the season, as proven by DJW getting more and more minutes as this season has progressed (and being productive in those minutes).

He was getting little bits of time here and there first semester, getting his feet wet.

And his first big burst of meaningful PT came at Rutgers with Finke (and Thorne and Black) out. In a meaningless game in a lost season where, heck, why not give him a shot? Those are conditions unlikely to be replicated next year, especially with DJW himself standing in Kipper's way.
 
#269      
Also, if we have Black and Thorne (or a 5th year big replacement), our rotation is overcrowded as it is.

Abrams
TJL
JCL
Nunn
Hill
DJW
Black
Finke
Mav
Thorne

10 guys! Too many, probably. And that's shunting Aaron Jordan out, who has shown flashes on a college floor, something Nichols is yet to do.

I think I'm being misinterpreted here. I'm not saying Kipper can't ever be productive, I'm saying there are both player-based and roster-based reasons to think he won't have a big role to play on next year's team, good bad or indifferent.

More likely an 8-9 man rotation like most coaches use, but the rotation could change during the season depending on matchups, who is playing well, injuries, etc.

My early lineup if all those players are here:

C Thorne, Morgan
F Finke, Black, Nichols
G Hill, Williams
G Nunn, JCL, Jordan
G Abrams, Lucas, Tate



My 9-man rotation would be the starters plus Black, JCL, Lucas, Morgan. Ten man rotation would add Williams. A lot can change, though. Jordan could blossom during the off season. He certainly is a hard worker. Nichols could be a surprise, who knows?
 
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#270      
My 9-man rotation would be the starters plus Black, JCL, Lucas, Morgan. Ten man rotation would add Williams.

Agreed. Tough to fit that many guys into a rotation, hopefully there can be different versions of the team to suit different opponents.

Any color analyst who has coached before has mentioned in our recent games "How the heck are they going to find floor time for all these guys next year?"
 
#271      
According to a guy I know who sees some practices, Kipper is a four. He is playing the four in practice and projects as a four in the Powell mold.

I'll defer to your sources, but my understanding was he was a 3/4 guy and had some wing skills.

If he plays D, he will find his way on the floor.
 
#272      
Agreed. Tough to fit that many guys into a rotation, hopefully there can be different versions of the team to suit different opponents.

Any color analyst who has coached before has mentioned in our recent games "How the heck are they going to find floor time for all these guys next year?"

If DJW has a decent Freshman to Sophomore leap he might be a bit higher in the rotation. His ceiling is much higher than most on this team and he's starting to show signs of breaking open.
 
#273      
Also, if we have Black and Thorne (or a 5th year big replacement), our rotation is overcrowded as it is.

Abrams
TJL
JCL
Nunn
Hill
DJW
Black
Finke
Mav
Thorne

10 guys! Too many, probably. And that's shunting Aaron Jordan out, who has shown flashes on a college floor, something Nichols is yet to do.

I think I'm being misinterpreted here. I'm not saying Kipper can't ever be productive, I'm saying there are both player-based and roster-based reasons to think he won't have a big role to play on next year's team, good bad or indifferent.

Players play players :D
 
#274      
If DJW has a decent Freshman to Sophomore leap he might be a bit higher in the rotation. His ceiling is much higher than most on this team and he's starting to show signs of breaking open.

I agree in theory. Trouble is, I'm not sure how much you can play him and Hill together. If they're the 2 and 3, neither is an ideal 2 and that means both JCL and Nunn are sitting and you've got shooting struggles. If they're 3 and 4, the problems with rebounding and interior defense that have plagued this season pop up.

Malcolm Hill is on the all-you-can-eat diet next year. That's the starting point, and you build the team from there.
 
#275      
Also, if we have Black and Thorne (or a 5th year big replacement), our rotation is overcrowded as it is.

Abrams
TJL
JCL
Nunn
Hill
DJW
Black
Finke
Mav
Thorne

10 guys! Too many, probably. And that's shunting Aaron Jordan out, who has shown flashes on a college floor, something Nichols is yet to do.

I think I'm being misinterpreted here. I'm not saying Kipper can't ever be productive, I'm saying there are both player-based and roster-based reasons to think he won't have a big role to play on next year's team, good bad or indifferent.

AHHH, we have too much talent to play!! :eek:

Let's hope some waivers aren't won and some players leave/are removed or we will not be able to keep everyone happy!!

:thumb:

JK, but it is interesting, as some will truly be unhappy with their PT, assuming we have all those guys here. (Obviously, if you aren't playing, you are probably not happy, but when you have proven you can produce, and still don't get time, it is more warranted....ex: if DJ or Mav barely see the floor.)
 
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