No insights, but I have a guess: Beason's cousin, Zeriah Beason, 4* WR.
That's where smart money would be
No insights, but I have a guess: Beason's cousin, Zeriah Beason, 4* WR.
Beason + Cooper to start off the class would be incredible. I'm with you about having concerns about the in-state talent. MO doesn't have as many targets for the staff as '19. Maybe we see the slack picked up in FL (also dependent on who's brought in on the staff and their preferred recruiting areas).
there are two lads of note from the East St Louis class of 2020 , Powell and Johnson, that would be awesome to snag.
Also, a big OT from OFallon , Ritchie that I'm sure is of interest.
I'm going to go with the dark horse candidate - Denver WarrenAny insights on first to pop in the 2020 class? My guess is we're a ways out before that happens (~6 months?).
Besides what was already pointed out (Illinois had plenty of higher-ranked kids), this is a simplification of how/which players are chosen and which are recommended to look for a new home.
For example (this has been discussed before), when Beckman was running the show, he wanted dual-threat QBs under Beatty and Gonzales. So Illinois signs Aaron Bailey (2013) and Chayce Crouch verbally commits (2014). Beatty and Gonzales are replaced with Cubit, who prefers pocket-passers. Bailey transfers out. Crouch sticks to his commitment. With Cubit now deciding on offensive personnel, Illinois signs Jeff George (grayshirt - 2014), Jimmy Fitzgerald (2015), and Eli Peters (2016), plus one transfer (Lunt). Two months after the 2016 signing period, Cubit is fired and Lovie is hired. Lovie (and McGee) want dual-threat QBs. So guess who transfers out? Peters, Fitzgerald, and George, all pocket-passers. Crouch stays on-board (dual threat!) but his shoulder injuries end his career. Since then, Illinois has brought in all dual-threat QBs (some better throwers, some better runners).
The issue is we really didn't get to see if Bailey, Fitzgerald, Peters, and Cam Thomas were good because they all dealt with OC changes and some of them dealt with a completely different view of what a college QB needs to be for Illinois. It's easy for us fans to accuse the transferring out athlete as those that were talented enough to make it in the B1G, but that is not an effective generalization (FYI, this is just one position and would apply to a whole host of other positions as well).
St. Thomas Aquinnas is another school i hoped we would keep momentum going with as well. They produce some big time recruits. C'mon Epstien, get the boys on board!Florida recruiting was certainly forgettable this year with us just picking up Coleman and almost losing him. Kind of surprising after how many players we had from Florida in the 2018 recruiting class. I really thought we had something going with Cardinal Gibbons and Deerfield Beach but nothing really materialized with recruits from those schools last year. I'm guessing the lack of scholarships in this class allowed us to prioritize instate, St. Louis and Texas.
We may see recruiting play out the same way this year as we really won't have that many scholarships for 2020 either.
It also looked like we tried to make some inroads in Georgia last year and that didn't work out well with Clark flipping to Miami. We also didn't appear to make a push for OL William Rogers even though he made an OV to campus.
I know we're not allowed to bash coaches until their fired but I would love to know what Byrd does? He "recruits" the San Diego area but I can't even think of anyone who had interest in us from that area. At least Clark has shown he can recruit.
I know Clark and R. Smith still have ties to California but I wouldn't be surprised if we abandon recruiting that part of the country. It's just really hard to get guys from there to come here if they have other P5 opportunities.
Very great point. Bailey could have been valuable to us the last couple years
When David Beaty took over at Kansas in 2014 he had 39 scholarship players. So, you're cooked just right there. Zooming out, Lovie entered his first season with more talent (per the 247 composite) than 6 other Power Five schools. Kansas was one of them, dead last.
By the way, Kansas still sucks.
I do not disagree with this post EXCEPT for what I have changed. And that is a big differenceIf Paul Kowalczyk hires, say, then 17-21 career WMU head coach PJ Fleck after 2015 for Beckman-ish money with no institutional backing above him, PJ Fleck is going to have to do yeoman's work to repair the shattered credibility of the program. Lovie did all of that merely by putting his name to a contract. He put out a lot of the dumpster fire just by showing up, so to speak. He didn't magically change the talent level just by showing up, but as I've shown the talent level was just poor, not radioactive, and comparable tolots of other situations. the worst programs in all of the Power 5
I do not disagree with this post EXCEPT for what I have changed. And that is a big difference
Lovie had no choice but to do a complete overhaul. Scandal aside, all experts saw that Illinois's biggest problem was Jimmys and Joes. Even if you assume there has only been an incremental gain in talent when assessing stars and ratios, nobody saw enough power 5 talent to be competitive.
I'll be honest, Chief Gritty. I'm confounded by you. You say your an advocate of Lovie's, but every other word out of your mouth seems to contradict that and more or less imply the right decision would be to move on from him... like, to have done so yesterday wouldn't be too soon. Is my read wrong? Anybody else interpreting the same, or am I just way off base here. I've had a couple Blanton's, so definitely could be me.And they fired their coach because of it. An act of impatience and failure to appreciate the difficulty of rebuilding that netted them a future Hall of Famer.
Anyway, the core of your argument seems to be the "stench" around the program. And there's no denying that the period of Not Ideal was one in which we seemed to be the absolute biggest joke in America behind the scenes, a reality not reflected in the dogged okayness of the 2015 football team on the field.
My argument is that Lovie himself completely turned the tables on that, just by his mere presence. Lovie's hire made Whitman the golden child who could bring down the big bucks in fundraising. Lovie's hire brought with it a hugely increased assistant salary pool and commitment to support staffing. Lovie's hire brought enormous amounts of good press onto the program, both in Chicago and nationally where we had been ignored for years.
We were all there, it was an amazing moment, it was quite a honeymoon. Even if we're bad next year and we move on, we're still better off for having that breath of fresh air and that fundraising spike which will result in a nice new facility that gets us back in that game. It changed the commitment to football at Illinois.
I don't mean to be unfair in not giving Lovie credit for things his arrival did for the program, but I don't think it's accurate to say he had to overcome the fallout and the toxic nature of things that his mere presence eliminated overnight.
If Paul Kowalczyk hires, say, then 17-21 career WMU head coach PJ Fleck after 2015 for Beckman-ish money with no institutional backing above him, PJ Fleck is going to have to do yeoman's work to repair the shattered credibility of the program. Lovie did all of that merely by putting his name to a contract. He put out a lot of the dumpster fire just by showing up, so to speak. He didn't magically change the talent level just by showing up, but as I've shown the talent level was just poor, not radioactive, and comparable to lots of other situations.
Yeah. Nice job taking the time to do that analysis. I see only four players on that whole list who either made a lateral move or a step up in level of play (George Jr, Tre Nation, Keyshawn, and Tito). That should tell you something right there.While we are on the topic lol. There has been a lot of discussion about what Lovie inherited and Lovie deciding to play Freshman over more experienced players etc. Here is a list I could come up with of transfers under Lovie and their new school. I have no doubt I missed some:
TE Henry McGrew-?
DB Harvey Clayton Jr. -Duquesne
DB Frank Sumpter -Eastern Kentucky
QB Jeff George Jr. Michigan/Pitt
DE Sean Adesanya – Central Michigan
WR Dominic Thieman- Duquesne
DB Chris James-?
DE/LB Christion Abercrombie-Tennessee St.
LB Julian Jones-Georgia St.
DT Tito Odenigbo -Miami Fl
S Patrick Nelson-SMU
OL Gabe Megginson- Illinois St.
LB Tre Watson- Maryland
WR Desmond Cain-North Dakota St.
OL Adam Solomon- Illinois St.
RB Keyshawn Vaughn- Vanderbilt
LB Julian Hylton-SIU
RB Tre Nation- Austin Peay
WR M.J. McGriff- Akron
WR Zarrian Holcombe- Prarie View A&M
I myself have been guilty at times thinking Lovie shouldn't have taken such a radical position and should have played more upperclassmen rather than Freshman. After looking at this list, I stand by earlier assertion that Lovie didn't inherit a ton of Big 10 talent and he may have been justified taking the bruises in the first few years.
While we are on the topic lol. There has been a lot of discussion about what Lovie inherited and Lovie deciding to play Freshman over more experienced players etc. Here is a list I could come up with of transfers under Lovie and their new school. I have no doubt I missed some:
TE Henry McGrew-?
DB Harvey Clayton Jr. -Duquesne
DB Frank Sumpter -Eastern Kentucky
QB Jeff George Jr. Michigan/Pitt
DE Sean Adesanya – Central Michigan
WR Dominic Thieman- Duquesne
DB Chris James-?
DE/LB Christion Abercrombie-Tennessee St.
LB Julian Jones-Georgia St.
DT Tito Odenigbo -Miami Fl
S Patrick Nelson-SMU
OL Gabe Megginson- Illinois St.
LB Tre Watson- Maryland
WR Desmond Cain-North Dakota St.
OL Adam Solomon- Illinois St.
RB Keyshawn Vaughn- Vanderbilt
LB Julian Hylton-SIU
RB Tre Nation- Austin Peay
WR M.J. McGriff- Akron
WR Zarrian Holcombe- Prarie View A&M
I myself have been guilty at times thinking Lovie shouldn't have taken such a radical position and should have played more upperclassmen rather than Freshman. After looking at this list, I stand by earlier assertion that Lovie didn't inherit a ton of Big 10 talent and he may have been justified taking the bruises in the first few years.
All this talk of dumpster fires and lack of talent has me wondering how Bill Cubit managed a 5-7 record as an interim coach the year prior to Lovie.
I mean we can look at how they did after they left Illinois. Bailey had a great career at Northern Iowa and signed as a WR with the Ravens but don't think much happened there. Cam Thomas appears to have quit football. Fitzgerald transfered to Dartmouth and then tore his knee again and quit football. Peters is a backup for Toledo in the MAC but did get some starts this year after the QB got hurt and threw well, winning offensive player of the week once. Maybe Bailey could have panned out, but looking at the others you can see they wouldn't have.The issue is we really didn't get to see if Bailey, Fitzgerald, Peters, and Cam Thomas were good because they all dealt with OC changes and some of them dealt with a completely different view of what a college QB needs to be for Illinois.
All this talk of dumpster fires and lack of talent has me wondering how Bill Cubit managed a 5-7 record as an interim coach the year prior to Lovie.
A couple transfers not mentioned
OL Eddy Fish - Boston College
QB Eli Peters - Toledo (Probably best returning QB in MAC)
QB Jimmy Fitzgerald - Dartmouth
WR Carmoni Green - Unknown
OL Zeke Martin - Unknown
OL Hojo Watkins - Juco (Dismissed)
QB Cam Thomas - Unknown
DB Bennett Williams - Juco (Dismissed)
TE Lou Dorsey - Unknown
Again, not a fan of these types of lists because it (1) categorizes all of these transfers as players that weren't talented enough and (2) dismisses the fact that some of them left because a lack of fit. This is simply a judgement on their landing spot. A couple of other points.
-- This list has an incredible amount of 2016 recruits. That class, and the events that unfolded that led to its fruition, will go down in infamy.
-- For some positive: Combining both lists, there are at least 11 guys that either would have gotten/received significant snaps (Vaughn, Dorsey, Williams, Green, Adesanya (great year at CMU), Tito, Nelson, and Watson) or would have provided solid depth (Watkins, Peters, Fish). I'd also make an argument that a couple more players would have been intriguing adds based on the current offensive philosophy (Tre Nation) or willingness to play another position (Cam Thomas).
-- I'm not sure it's fair to point out the flameouts as justification for Lovie playing freshmen, as many of the players you mentioned as transferring out where in fact freshman (or at least underclassmen). The general complaints was that Lovie had some high-performing upperclassmen that saw their snap count decrease as the season went on in order to give freshmen, especially the ones with a strong future, more playing time.
-- Again, some of these players transferred out due to a lack of fit (coaching turnover) and less to do with lack of talent. You're a big RB that Cubit really wanted? Vaughn and Nation come in. Cubit is fired, McGee is hired, and now Illinois doesn't want big RBs? Vaughn and Nation leave.
All this talk of dumpster fires and lack of talent has me wondering how Bill Cubit managed a 5-7 record as an interim coach the year prior to Lovie.
A couple transfers not mentioned
OL Eddy Fish - Boston College
QB Eli Peters - Toledo (Probably best returning QB in MAC)
QB Jimmy Fitzgerald - Dartmouth
WR Carmoni Green - Unknown
OL Zeke Martin - Unknown
OL Hojo Watkins - Juco (Dismissed)
QB Cam Thomas - Unknown
DB Bennett Williams - Juco (Dismissed)
TE Lou Dorsey - Unknown
Again, not a fan of these types of lists because it (1) categorizes all of these transfers as players that weren't talented enough and (2) dismisses the fact that some of them left because a lack of fit. This is simply a judgement on their landing spot. A couple of other points.
You say your an advocate of Lovie's, but every other word out of your mouth seems to contradict that and more or less imply the right decision would be to move on from him... like, to have done so yesterday wouldn't be too soon. Is my read wrong?