Illinois Football Recruiting Thread

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#201      
Current portal rankings.

On3 - 20th (36th by average ranking)
247 - 64th

Top transfers in (247/On3):
Houser 88/90 (175 overall/165 overall)
Edmondson 87/88 (380 overall/439 overall)
Perry 86/87.5 (610 overall/529 overall)
Platt 86/86 (727 overall/1506 overall)
Renfro 86/89 (438 overall/271 overall)

Top transfers out:
Tomi 93/91 (52 overall/124 overall)
Rusk 91/90 (108 overall/183 overall)

Bowick 90/89 (121 overall/288 overall)
Mccullom 88/87 (177 overall/861 overall)
Patterson 87/86 (390 overall/1391 overall)
What's interesting here is Bowick was 86 just two days ago on On3. Rusk, was 88. Tomi was 88.

Why did their scores go up? We have no way of knowing. That's part of the reason I am loathe to over-rely on these ratings/rankings. When prep prospects ratings get updated, you can at least guess at a reason having to do with the player himself - performances, physical growth, something. These, we have absolutely no way of knowing why, because the thing is Bowick is the same player today he was on Monday. All of these guys are. So at best, On3's rating was way off on Monday and is more accurate today. But without knowing why the rating changed, can we really trust that?

And not only do they not tell you what goes in, they don't show you the change. If I hadn't done a whole post on Monday which listed the On3 ratings for these players, I wouldn't even know that they changed, because they don't let you see the history. Someone just looking at them today would think they always thought Bowick was better than Perry. In fact, 2 days ago they had Perry ranked ahead of Bowick, and Platt tied with him.
 
#202      
What's interesting here is Bowick was 86 just two days ago on On3. Rusk, was 88. Tomi was 88.

Why did their scores go up? We have no way of knowing. That's part of the reason I am loathe to over-rely on these ratings/rankings. When prep prospects ratings get updated, you can at least guess at a reason having to do with the player himself - performances, physical growth, something. These, we have absolutely no way of knowing why, because the thing is Bowick is the same player today he was on Monday. All of these guys are. So at best, On3's rating was way off on Monday and is more accurate today. But without knowing why the rating changed, can we really trust that?

And not only do they not tell you what goes in, they don't show you the change. If I hadn't done a whole post on Monday which listed the On3 ratings for these players, I wouldn't even know that they changed, because they don't let you see the history. Someone just looking at them today would think they always thought Bowick was better than Perry. In fact, 2 days ago they had Perry ranked ahead of Bowick, and Platt tied with him.

I was told on here that that transfer rankings are based off of production not potential. If that was true Rusk definitely wouldn’t be a 4 star.
 
#203      
the fact that he’s also not in the portal is huge. I think we get him back. If that happens the secondary should be a strength. X, Juice, Bailey, Morris, Williams is a good secondary. Then you also have Heckle, Mac, Eberhart and Hankins.

Dline still needs a lot. I’m sure Brooks and white will play but we still need some veteran starters
100%
 
#204      
On top of this, some (many?) the posts people keep referring to as negative posts aren't even negative. They're legit questions. Instead of them getting answered, they get responded with snide-!!! remarks.
I actually think there has been a lot of legitimate questioning and debate in response to the "negative posts" which have in turn been casually dismissed with vague references to "data" that don't address the issues raised.
The Parker brothers total career stats

Jayvon Parker 19 tackles, 2.5 TFL, 1.5 sacks, 0 FF/FR/PD. Played in 1 game in 2025 due to injury. Played 4 games in 2024 due to injury.

Armon Parker 8 tackles, 1 TFL, 1 Sack, 0 FF/FR/PD. Played in 8 games in 2025 due to injuries. Did not play in 2023 or 2024. 8 career games.

Combined 27 tackles, 3.5 TFL, 2.5 sacks. 0 FF or FR.

I agree this production is lackluster, but it's interesting you've cited Luke Altmyer as an example of "we should do more P4 transfers instead of G5" and then you criticize these potential P4 transfers. These were his career stats over 2 seasons at Ole Miss:

28/54 (51.9%), 317 yds, 3 TD, 3 INT.

I think we all agree the ideal is high production at a P4 program. That's very expensive though, hard to find, and subject to competition from programs that frankly have a better sell than us. So in the instances where we have to settle for less than that, should we go for G5 with high production or P4 talent with minimal production? Your responses seem to indicate that we're screwed either way.
 
#205      
I was told on here that that transfer rankings are based off of production not potential. If that was true Rusk definitely wouldn’t be a 4 star.
Cole Rusk career stats 58 catches, 724 yards, 7 TD's. He had a big year at Murray State before coming here. There are very few TE's in the portal with that level of production and his amount of games played. He is on par with other 4 star TE's production wise.

Bowick has 85 catches, 1,357 yards, and 16 TD's in his career. I believe he has the most TDs of any WR in the portal that played for a D1 school last season. They are highly productive when you actually look at their career stats (which is what the models rely on).
 
#207      
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#208      
I actually think there has been a lot of legitimate questioning and debate in response to the "negative posts" which have in turn been casually dismissed with vague references to "data" that don't address the issues raised.


I agree this production is lackluster, but it's interesting you've cited Luke Altmyer as an example of "we should do more P4 transfers instead of G5" and then you criticize these potential P4 transfers. These were his career stats over 2 seasons at Ole Miss:

28/54 (51.9%), 317 yds, 3 TD, 3 INT.

I think we all agree the ideal is high production at a P4 program. That's very expensive though, hard to find, and subject to competition from programs that frankly have a better sell than us. So in the instances where we have to settle for less than that, should we go for G5 with high production or P4 talent with minimal production? Your responses seem to indicate that we're screwed either way.
I think the clear distinction is production, age and injury history. These guys are in their 4th and 5th years of college. They have been oft injuried and not productive. Now if they were redshirt sophomores, sure there could be something there that people missed. This late in their career? They are what they are more than likely.

If you are gonna go lower level they need to be all conference type players. Highly productive. Which I think we’ve done with Williams and the Penn transfer. If you are gonna recruit underperforming P4 guys I’d rather stay away from the old and injured. Because those are things you can’t teach them to get better on.

Which goes back to the overall issue right now. The market is shrinking each day. These guys won’t get cheaper. Losing our whole DL to other P4 teams is an expensive issue right now. Because true difference makers aren’t cheap. Are we totally screwed? No. But if this is the best we can get right now.. yeah it’s not good.
 
#211      
What's interesting here is Bowick was 86 just two days ago on On3. Rusk, was 88. Tomi was 88.

Why did their scores go up? We have no way of knowing. That's part of the reason I am loathe to over-rely on these ratings/rankings. When prep prospects ratings get updated, you can at least guess at a reason having to do with the player himself - performances, physical growth, something. These, we have absolutely no way of knowing why, because the thing is Bowick is the same player today he was on Monday. All of these guys are. So at best, On3's rating was way off on Monday and is more accurate today. But without knowing why the rating changed, can we really trust that?

And not only do they not tell you what goes in, they don't show you the change. If I hadn't done a whole post on Monday which listed the On3 ratings for these players, I wouldn't even know that they changed, because they don't let you see the history. Someone just looking at them today would think they always thought Bowick was better than Perry. In fact, 2 days ago they had Perry ranked ahead of Bowick, and Platt tied with him.
We don't have reliable information on this, but IN THEORY the "right" way to do the rankings is just simply in raw market value terms. The players who sign for the most money are ipso facto the best.

I suspect any changes in the rankings reflect chatter along those lines, that the players got more or less money than was previously anticipated.

The market is shrinking each day.
Until the portal closes on Friday I suspect the market is actually growing each day. After Friday though, it will shrink rapidly.
 
#212      
We don't have reliable information on this, but IN THEORY the "right" way to do the rankings is just simply in raw market value terms. The players who sign for the most money are ipso facto the best.

I suspect any changes in the rankings reflect chatter along those lines, that the players got more or less money than was previously anticipated.


Until the portal closes on Friday I suspect the market is actually growing each day. After Friday though, it will shrink rapidly.
Right now more players are committing than are entering the portal. 44% of the total portal was committed a few days ago, it’s now 53% committed (according to on3).
 
#213      
We don't have reliable information on this, but IN THEORY the "right" way to do the rankings is just simply in raw market value terms. The players who sign for the most money are ipso facto the best.

I suspect any changes in the rankings reflect chatter along those lines, that the players got more or less money than was previously anticipated.


Until the portal closes on Friday I suspect the market is actually growing each day. After Friday though, it will shrink rapidly.
Perhaps the better way to approach this would be to publish a Financial Ranking (reflecting NIL market value) and a Performance Ranking (reflecting actual performance data on the field) so a mere offer of NIL doesn't make the Performance Ranking skyrocket.
 
#214      
Perhaps the better way to approach this would be to publish a Financial Ranking (reflecting NIL market value) and a Performance Ranking (reflecting actual performance data on the field) so a mere offer of NIL doesn't make the Performance Ranking skyrocket.
Sure, but the performance ranking is always going to be subjective and runs into the problem of needing to balance the five star freshman who redshirted versus the guy who has been lighting up D2 for four years.

How do you balance those things into a single quantifiable number? Well, a dollar figure will do that
 
#216      
We don't have reliable information on this, but IN THEORY the "right" way to do the rankings is just simply in raw market value terms. The players who sign for the most money are ipso facto the best.

I suspect any changes in the rankings reflect chatter along those lines, that the players got more or less money than was previously anticipated.


Until the portal closes on Friday I suspect the market is actually growing each day. After Friday though, it will shrink rapidly.
This goes to my point about the portal ratings/ranking. In what you describe as the "ideal" version of them, they are reactionary, not prospective (even though many ratings are released before anyone knows where the players are going and there is any chatter about for how much), and what they are reacting to is "chatter" about how much players are getting, which means that to the extent there is any real data involved, that data is unreliable and unverifiable, and even if the "chatter" turns out to be right, it is only helpful to the extent that the highest bidder on a given player made an accurate assessment of that player's value.

And that's without even getting into other nuances that would frustrate this method of calculation, such as the differences in compensation between different positions. If you were really trying to be accurate, you'd wait until you had enough data on how much players were getting in a certain position group before you issued any rating. Of course, these ratings services are not trying to be accurate, they're trying to sell a product, and the sooner you can push these ratings out the better.

But I don't even think that's how it works. If I had to guess how it actually works for the transfer portal, here is my best guess:

1. 247 puts out ratings fast, and doesn't appear to really update them, because it's about volume not accuracy.

2. On3 puts out a compilation rating, which incorporates its own assessments and 247s. It's own assessment is what you see at first (hence they're all round numbers, like 87.00), then starts incorporating others, including 247.

3. Other less known ratings outfits do their own, and a lot of them probably have a "follow the leader" approach and end up close to 247. They're probably more limited lists, probably going off 247's top 100, 200, or so on.

4. On3 starts incorporating more of these lists, and you start to see guys who 247 rated highly drift closer to their 247 rating (hence why guys like Rusk, Bowick, and Durojaye all now have ratings that are not round numbers, and are much closer to their 247 rating than they were two days ago). Since a lot of the lists are not as comprehensive (see #3) you start to see this first with guys 247 has rated higher.

I think that's both the most likely explanation, and the one that explains the ratings changes I noted previously.
 
#219      
He's coming off an injury
Is the thinking he wanted to go somewhere to have a full season out to recover/learn the system? I have to imagine he had an inkling Moore returning was possible. Which also means whatever NIL deal he got took a possible Moore return into account.
 
#221      
Sure, but the performance ranking is always going to be subjective and runs into the problem of needing to balance the five star freshman who redshirted versus the guy who has been lighting up D2 for four years.

How do you balance those things into a single quantifiable number? Well, a dollar figure will do that
The weakness of labeling the PR as subjective is that the dollar figure represents a subjective analysis by whatever school personnel are bidding on the player. Each is subjective which just means they are predicting that which cannot yet be known - how a particular player will perform on as yet unidentified system of play. Dicey at best however you do it. Coaches can focus their efforts into predicting how a player will fit within their system and thus may be better. They can also decide not to study all 6800 or so portal players and focus on a subset of priority players for their system.

It is a difficult and uncertain balancing act upon which millions of dollars are bet via NIL and school athletic budgeting rely. It is good to be retired and no longer be subjected to such flaky decision-making bases.
 
#224      
The weakness of labeling the PR as subjective is that the dollar figure represents a subjective analysis by whatever school personnel are bidding on the player. Each is subjective which just means they are predicting that which cannot yet be known - how a particular player will perform on as yet unidentified system of play.
The difference isn't in the level of subjectivity, it's in how apples-to-apples you're able to make comparisons.

I dunno, the older I get the less I struggle with the whole "rankings don't matter - or do they?" stuff. It gets easier and easier to hold contradictory notions in one's head.
 
#225      
Cole Rusk career stats 58 catches, 724 yards, 7 TD's. He had a big year at Murray State before coming here. There are very few TE's in the portal with that level of production and his amount of games played. He is on par with other 4 star TE's production wise.

Bowick has 85 catches, 1,357 yards, and 16 TD's in his career. I believe he has the most TDs of any WR in the portal that played for a D1 school last season. They are highly productive when you actually look at their career stats (which is what the models rely on).

Rusk had 217 yards receiving and 1 td at Illinois. He’s also extremely limited as a blocker. I hardly call that 4 star production.
 
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