Illinois Golf 2023-24

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#976      
WeWillWhen
HensonHall71 said:
Revenue for mens golf is tiny - so it's really not about creating more tv revenue
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Speaking of revenue . . . cost of a ticket to the Championships supposedly was $8, but when we got to La Costa we just walked right over to the course without even seeing a ticket booth. Many other people walked in the same way as us. 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♀️ Any way, I doubt there were more then 1000-1500 spectators.
 
#977      
2X2L
SnakePlissken said:
I agree with this 100%. There are quirks with any format. If we had just won one of these match play tournaments everyone would be much more on board with the concept.

The other nice part of your "cut to 7" idea is the stroke play winner is then guaranteed a spot at East Lake. It really stinks we missed out on that for next year.
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There are no quirks in stroke play golf to determine a national champion. Whoever gets that little ball in the cup in the fewest shots is bestest. Simple.

But I'm organizing MLB match-play World Series. Anything, everything goes these days.$$$. Rotten. There's even a thing called "Professional Tag" on tv.

God help us all, please.
 
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#978      
SnakePlissken
2X2L said:
There are no quirks in stroke play golf to determine a national champion.
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The format is what it is. It's undeniably a quirk to only count 4 out of 5 scores during stroke play.

With the understanding that we all really, really wanted to win a National Championship and are all bitterly disappointed at the outcome here, it's not in any way correct to say that because we were ahead at some point in the event we were more deserving of the title than the eventual champion. If we had won match play in any of those other years from the 2 through 8 slot there would be no asterisk.

Thoroughly enjoyed the season and an unexpected run to the top of the leaderboard. Hoping for another great run next year!
 
#979      
DRS
skyIdub said:
Winning stroke play by 16 strokes should earn you a National Championship. Period. Best team....undeniable. Match play is fun.....it should not determine the NC in one morning....after your team obliterated the field over 4 days.

Congrats Mike and Illini Golf. As far as I'm concerned, you are the National Champions.
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this is simply not true, they were the best team for that stretch of golf, but Illinois is not the best team in the nation, possibly top 10, but they are not the best team and if they played the top 10 teams in a series of tourneys I do not think they would prove to be the best. Just like Tai is not the best golfer in college but he won the individual. North Carolina, Vandy and others are loaded with pros. I mean hell, Florida St and Auburn have had better years then us.

Great year and we are gonna be in the 10 for sure but other teams had great years with great players also. Golf is a sport where the best doesn't always come out on top.
 
#980      
Illinicpa14
SnakePlissken said:
The format is what it is. It's undeniably a quirk to only count 4 out of 5 scores during stroke play.

With the understanding that we all really, really wanted to win a National Championship and are all bitterly disappointed at the outcome here, it's not in any way correct to say that because we were ahead at some point in the event we were more deserving of the title than the eventual champion. If we had won match play in any of those other years from the 2 through 8 slot there would be no asterisk.

Thoroughly enjoyed the season and an unexpected run to the top of the leaderboard. Hoping for another great run next year!
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Right - every team goes into the year knowing you need to get through match play to win the title. Maybe other teams do different things to prepare themselves for it.

No different than March madness, where the best team rarely wins because of the format and teams during the regular season choose certain games, tourneys and schedules to try to best prepare them for the tourney.

I think we intentionally scheduled Colgate on a Saturday 11 am start to mimic a first round tourney game.
 
#981      
skyIdub
DRS said:
this is simply not true, they were the best team for that stretch of golf, but Illinois is not the best team in the nation, possibly top 10, but they are not the best team and if they played the top 10 teams in a series of tourneys I do not think they would prove to be the best. Just like Tai is not the best golfer in college but he won the individual. North Carolina, Vandy and others are loaded with pros. I mean hell, Florida St and Auburn have had better years then us.

Great year and we are gonna be in the 10 for sure but other teams had great years with great players also. Golf is a sport where the best doesn't always come out on top.
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Ok....I didn't say they were "the best team in the nation". I said they were....by 16 strokes.....the best team for four days of stroke play.
That means they were the best team at the National Championships. Period. Full stop.

And then you go on to create a pseudo scenario to prove a point that nobody made.

My point was simple if you need to go over it again.
One morning of match play eliminated the best team at the tournament. And not just the best team at the tournament.....the team that destroyed the field.

Destroyed. Obliterated. Eviscerated. Clowned. Sh!t whipped. Brow beat.

All the teams you claimed would beat Illinois in your imaginary "series of tourneys" couldn't even finish under par.

Just Illinois. National Champions. F the NCAA.
 
#982      
Illinoise
This is just silly. Plenty of things to go at the NCAA over but this ain’t one. I am 100% sure the coaches have some input as to the format. Do they all love it. I am sure not. There is no perfect format for team golf. Everyone knows the rules going in and may the best team win.

I do know who you won’t hear whining about the format……Mike Small and the 5 Illini players who have a hell of a lot more invested than you or I.
 
#983      
Point-Illinois
skyIdub said:
Ok....I didn't say they were "the best team in the nation". I said they were....by 16 strokes.....the best team for four days of stroke play.
That means they were the best team at the National Championships. Period. Full stop.

And then you go on to create a pseudo scenario to prove a point that nobody made.

My point was simple if you need to go over it again.
One morning of match play eliminated the best team at the tournament. And not just the best team at the tournament.....the team that destroyed the field.

Destroyed. Obliterated. Eviscerated. Clowned. Sh!t whipped. Brow beat.

All the teams you claimed would beat Illinois in your imaginary "series of tourneys" couldn't even finish under par.

Just Illinois. National Champions. F the NCAA.
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**standing ovation gif**
 
#984      
Illinoise
Say what you want about match play, but looking the guy you have to beat in the eyes for 18 holes is awesome. It’s intense and pressure packed. Is 18 holes of match play a better way to identify the best team, probably not but I love the format. If Illinois finished 8th in the stroke play and was playing for a natty I am pretty sure we would see any apologists here.
 
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#985      
2X2L
I miss Illinois golf already. Too early to start talking about 2024-25 roster?

Freshmen: Jake Birdwell, MN; Joseph Buttress, Australia; Trey Marrion, VA

Sophs - Max, Adam Hunt, Ethan

Junior -Ryan

Senior - Jackson

Correct?

Coach may have to bring in a transfer veteran? Advice: maybe another Belgian; can always use another Belgian.

Thanks for everything Piercen, Tyler, Timmy, Jerry. Best wishes to you in golf and life.
 
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#986      
Point-Illinois
Illinoise said:
Say what you want about match play, but looking the guy you have to beat in the eyes for 18 holes is awesome. It’s intense and pressure packed. Is 18 holes of match play a better way to identify the best team, probably not but I love the format. If Illinois finished 8th in the stroke play and was playing for a natty I am pretty sure we would see any apologists here.
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Yeah, match play is a weird way to crown a championship, but so is March Madness. (Though it’s not an apples to apples comparison)

I do think there should be some consideration for the stroke play winner though. If they don’t get a trophy (I mean it used to be the Natty) then give some benefit for it.

The “bye” into the final four was a cool idea as was also giving higher seeds starting advantages in the matchups. It feels like it should be more than “cool, you whooped !!!, but now you’re pretty much equal to the other 7 teams who made it”.
 
#987      
2X2L
Cut out the Mickey Mouse that is match play. Bad format to end tournament, in my humble opinion. Stroke or Match, one or the other. I prefer stroke play. True test over the long haul.
 
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#988      
SuperintendentChalmers
TheGMan said:
You think? I'd imagine just based on the popularity of the two sports that golf would have better TV ratings. But who knows?
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I don't know. I figure NCAA golf suffers because people who want to watch golf also have the PGA and LPGA. Attendance at each men's lacrosse Final Four session is usually between 30 and 40 thousand, depending on the proximity of the teams to the site.
 
#989      
DRS
skyIdub said:
Ok....I didn't say they were "the best team in the nation". I said they were....by 16 strokes.....the best team for four days of stroke play.
That means they were the best team at the National Championships. Period. Full stop.

And then you go on to create a pseudo scenario to prove a point that nobody made.

My point was simple if you need to go over it again.
One morning of match play eliminated the best team at the tournament. And not just the best team at the tournament.....the team that destroyed the field.

Destroyed. Obliterated. Eviscerated. Clowned. Sh!t whipped. Brow beat.

All the teams you claimed would beat Illinois in your imaginary "series of tourneys" couldn't even finish under par.

Just Illinois. National Champions. F the NCAA.
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Fair enough, you did say "best team...undeniable" and I see you are saying that they were the best team during the stroke play portion, I took that to mean you were saying they were the best team in college golf, which I do not believe.

To back my point, those teams I mention for the most part have played in events with Illinois and have beaten them. So yes in my imaginary series there is some real world backing to what I am saying. We have also beat some of them also. My whole point is golf is way too fickle to declare so and so the best because of a good run of golf. In a way this is testament to what the Illinois program has become because over the years we have proving were are a top program by making runs in the Championship. getting to matchplay is a helluva accomplishment and we have made it to match play 9 of the last 14 years. I wonder how many teams can say that?
 
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#990      
skyIdub
It’s a simple solution. Keep the match play because it’s fun and entertaining.
But the stroke play winner gets a bye to the final four so you cut one team from stroke play. Seven advance with one bye.

Then if the stroke play winner smokes the field by 10 or more strokes, that team then gets to use 10 strokes as holes won for their first round of match play. So you would start 2 up in all five matches.
Similar to the reward in PGA for the FedEx Cup series of tournaments.
 
#991      
skyIdub
DRS said:
To back my point, those teams I mention for the most part have played in events with Illinois and have beaten them. So yes in my imaginary series there is some real world backing to what I am saying. We have also beat some of them also. My whole point is golf is way too fickle to declare so and so the best because of a good run of golf. In a way this is testament to what the Illinois program has become because over the years we have proving were are a top program by making runs in the Championship. getting to matchplay is a helluva accomplishment and we have made it to match play 9 of the last 14 years. I wonder how many teams can say that?
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Yeah but so what? That is an argument for every champion in every sport every year.
It’s the losers argument.
Were the Rangers the “best team” in baseball last year? Nope, but they are the World Champions, so they are the best team in baseball.
Same with every NCAA BB champ. Would they win a 5 or 7 game series vs.(insert team)?

Illinois was….far and away….the best team at the National championships.
At a brand new course that no team had seen!!!
They were the only team that finished under par!
Create all the straw-man arguments you want.
 
#992      
DRS
skyIdub said:
Yeah but so what? That is an argument for every champion in every sport every year.
It’s the losers argument.
Were the Rangers the “best team” in baseball last year? Nope, but they are the World Champions, so they are the best team in baseball.
Same with every NCAA BB champ. Would they win a 5 or 7 game series vs.(insert team)?

Illinois was….far and away….the best team at the National championships.
At a brand new course that no team had seen!!!
They were the only team that finished under par!
Create all the straw-man arguments you want.
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Whatever man, yours is the loser argument, that is not how this Championship works, plain and simple. Crying about not winning in match is lame. that IS the championship. Then coming on here and being like well we were the best at the national championship because we dominated half of the event and they should change the way it is run because we didn't get what we deserve is loser talk. I am saying we had a great run and should be appreciated for what we have accomplished despite not winning it all. There are two parts to this championship and we got bounced. It might not be what you want to have happen but that is how it happened and frankly better teams then us advanced to the finals with better players and resumes.
 
#993      
DRS
Illinoise said:
Say what you want about match play, but looking the guy you have to beat in the eyes for 18 holes is awesome. It’s intense and pressure packed. Is 18 holes of match play a better way to identify the best team, probably not but I love the format. If Illinois finished 8th in the stroke play and was playing for a natty I am pretty sure we would see any apologists here.
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100% agree with this.
 
#994      
skyIdub
DRS said:
Whatever man, yours is the loser argument, that is not how this Championship works, plain and simple. Crying about not winning in match is lame. that IS the championship. Then coming on here and being like well we were the best at the national championship because we dominated half of the event and they should change the way it is run because we didn't get what we deserve is loser talk. I am saying we had a great run and should be appreciated for what we have accomplished despite not winning it all. There are two parts to this championship and we got bounced. It might not be what you want to have happen but that is how it happened and frankly better teams then us advanced to the finals with better players and resumes.
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lol ok. 4 days vs. one morning of matches. Half the Championship.
I’m bad at math and even I can see past this.

I’m not attacking you personally dude, and I’m not “crying”, I’m pointing out the absurdity of how the event rewards one morning of match play vs obliterating the field for four days., and I proposed a way better solution to keep the match play while rewarding the winning of stroke play.
If you actually believe that’s a fair assessment of the best team, knock yourself out.
 
#995      
TheGMan
My two cents: Is match play the most "fair" way to determine who was the best team in the championship? Probably not. But neither is March Madness.

Do I ultimately care that much? No, not really. Both are more entertaining because of it. Definitely heartbreaking when your team loses when they were playing great. But it's also provides for more excitement when teams can go on cinderella runs.

Sports would be boring if everything was set up to make the best team win almost all of the time.

However, I am certainly in favor for there being some advantage to winning stroke play.
 
#996      
SnakePlissken
To summarize, Loyalty respectfully submits the following proposed changes to the NCAA:

1. If Illinois is leading at the conclusion of stroke play, Illinois is declared the national champion and match play is strictly an exhibition.
2. If Illinois finishes stroke play in positions 2-7, match play determines the national champion, but we're generally good with the stroke play leader getting a bye to the semis.
3. If Illinois finishes stroke play in 8th, we revert to the current format.
 
#997      
vikings001
Illinoise said:
Say what you want about match play, but looking the guy you have to beat in the eyes for 18 holes is awesome. It’s intense and pressure packed. Is 18 holes of match play a better way to identify the best team, probably not but I love the format. If Illinois finished 8th in the stroke play and was playing for a natty I am pretty sure we would see any apologists here.
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Except you can theoretically beat him by strokes and lose. I like what D2 does.
 
#998      
vikings001
I’m curious to see if small hits the transfer portal at all this offseason for 1-2 guys like he did last year. If he doesn’t he has a great 3 man core in JB, Voois, and herendeen. Wilson showed some promise as a freshman, and then you got 3 incoming promising recruits as freshman. He’ll have a couple scholarships to work with might want to target 1 or 2 guys.
 
#999      
Illinoise
Any discussion of changing the method of declaring a champion in any sport has to start and end with soccer. Idiotic penalty kicks, taken 10 feet from the goalie, must be fixed before I can worry about anything else.

Show me some quotes where Mike Small is outraged and I will reconsider.
 
#1,000      
illiniE
skyIdub said:
It’s a simple solution. Keep the match play because it’s fun and entertaining.
But the stroke play winner gets a bye to the final four so you cut one team from stroke play. Seven advance with one bye.

Then if the stroke play winner smokes the field by 10 or more strokes, that team then gets to use 10 strokes as holes won for their first round of match play. So you would start 2 up in all five matches.
Similar to the reward in PGA for the FedEx Cup series of tournaments.
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That format would really screw the 4/5 seeds that would face the #1 seed in the semifinal. You would be better off as the 6th or 7th seed. Keep current format and crown a stroke play national champion and a match play national champion.
 
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