Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread (April-June 2016)

[FatGreg]

Disregarding all the off court stuff for Verge and assuming he's got his situation together academically after all the transfers, he's a talented player.

I've watched him play three times and I'm still not sure how his game will translate to the next level. He's electric on the court - your eyes are drawn to him. He's long and very disruptive defensively. Good court vision, always attacking, plays with a lot of energy and flair, big time scorer. However, he's frequently out of control: ball handling is sloppy (highlight crossovers and dumb turnovers come in pretty equal measure), shot selection is questionable. I remember him getting ripped 3 times in 4 possessions in an EYBL game last year trying to do too much.

On top of the inconsistency and turnover issues, his shot has always looked funny to me. It goes in plenty, which is all that matters at the end of the day, but the mechanics bug me. Athletically, he's definitely good enough for the B1G, but he's not tremendously explosive. All in all, when I've watched him he's obviously talented, but enigmatic: against elite AAU competition, he sometimes looks like the best player on the floor and other times looks fairly abysmal. Curious to see how his game looks this year.

 

[Illinijose]

Any problematic players we need to pass on, they can quickly bring our program down.

I will try to attend the Boo Williams EBYL event in May. Will specifically try to cath the Mac Fire (D. Williams) and Meanstreets, plus T. Lewis games.

 

[Deleted member 10676]

Fire getting smoked by CP3 36-17 late in the first half. DaMonte looking very unimpressive, but same could be said for about the entire team. Good alley-oop from Poole to Smith off the tip-off, after that, lots of turnovers and short jumpers.
(and when I say short jumpers, I mean they're all hitting off the front of the rim. Don't think DMW has even taken a shot yet. Has 3 to's and 1 steal.)

 

[Deleted member 10676]

Couple of assists and steals, one ending in a dunk for DMW. Fire still down 51-34.

 

[Deleted member 10676]

Derek Piper ‏@DPiperScout 29m29 minutes ago #Illini coaches John Groce & Jamall Walker watched Jordan Goodwin (13 pts) & Tim Finke (14 pts) earlier this afternoon with the STL Eagles.


Eagles beat Alabama Challenge 71-51. Fire lost to CP3 74-39.

 

[Deleted member 10676]

and if anyone else is watching the Meanstreets game that's on right now, the kid is just amazing. MS was down by 20 in the first half with Gilyard at the point, Verge came in to start the second and in 8 minutes MS is up 4. Assists, steals, layups, rebounds, attack, attack.

 

[Deleted member 10676]

Derek Piper ‏@DPiperScout 47m47 minutes ago #Illini Jamall Walker watching MeanStreets vs. WACG. Nojel Eastern, Brian Bowen, Evan Gilyard, Alonzo Verge & Tyger Campbell all in action.


MS, down at one point 32-13, comes back to win 67-56. Eastern, Bowen, Verge, and Gilyard (in the last part of the 2nd half) really a strong nucleus.

box score from the Fire game: http://www.d1circuit.com/game/show/13632179?subseason=282324&referrer=2376181

 

[Deleted member 10676]

Finke and Goodwin both having themselves quite a game in front of Groce tonight. Eagles not only without Tilmon, but I haven't seen Darius Garland at all. Eagles ahead of RM5 from TX, 54-41 with under a minute to go.

Next up, the second Fire game of the day, which I'm going to watch just to see if they can possibly be as bad as they looked this afternoon. Or as apathetic.

 

[Deleted member 10676]

Jeebus, more than halfway through the first half and the Fire is losing 6-2.

 

[Joel Goodson]

Jeebus, more than halfway through the first half and the Fire is losing 6-2.

Irvin's coachin' 'em up.

 

[Deleted member 10676]

Fire is up by 10 with about 4 minutes to go, but these coaches are being very unpleasant to the refs and to each other. In fact, it looks like they had to bring down some big bouncer looking dudes to stand between the two benches. Very strange since there's no announcers to tell what's going on.

The box score of the Eagles game. Goodwin and Finke with 17 points each. http://www.d1circuit.com/game/show/13632217

 

[Serious Late]

Serious question, there has been a decent amount of ragging on Pastner here recently (well deserved). Is there any coach that gets more from less in the country, at any level, than the Irvin's AAU team?

Seems every year, they have one of the most talented AAU teams, only to consistently under perform.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

 

[Obelix]

Is there any coach that gets more from less in the country, at any level, than the Irvin's AAU team?

Seems every year, they have one of the most talented AAU teams, only to consistently under perform.

Love them or hate them, Mac Irvin Fire is one of the most successful AAU programs in the entire country. They are a marquee Nike program, participate at the highest level of AAU competition, make it to all the top tournaments, consistently send their players to blue bloods and top programs, consistently send their top players to the NBA, and their graduates consistently win NCAA national titles. The last 5 NCAA National Champions have had a Mac Irvin Fire player in their roster, actually prominent players in their lineup. No other AAU program can currently say that. They are hugely successful.

 

[TownieMatt]

Love them or hate them, Mac Irvin Fire is one of the most successful AAU programs in the entire country. They are a marquee Nike program, participate at the highest level of AAU competition, make it to all the top tournaments, consistently send their players to blue bloods and top programs, consistently send their top players to the NBA, and their graduates consistently win NCAA national titles. The last 5 NCAA National Champions have had a Mac Irvin Fire player in their roster, actually prominent players in their lineup. No other AAU program can currently say that. They are hugely successful.

Just to add to that, I don't think the Fire have underperformed the last couple seasons. The talent in the Chicago area is just way down. This current team has a bunch of solid D1 level guys, but not the future lottery picks that they're used to.

 

[Serious Late]

Love them or hate them, Mac Irvin Fire is one of the most successful AAU programs in the entire country. They are a marquee Nike program, participate at the highest level of AAU competition, make it to all the top tournaments, consistently send their players to blue bloods and top programs, consistently send their top players to the NBA, and their graduates consistently win NCAA national titles. The last 5 NCAA National Champions have had a Mac Irvin Fire player in their roster, actually prominent players in their lineup. No other AAU program can currently say that. They are hugely successful.

Okay, but none of that speaks to their actual performance on the court, which never seems to match the hype.

 

[Second and Chalmers]

Okay, but none of that speaks to their actual performance on the court, which never seems to match the hype.

If you ask me, creating opportunity for their players' educational and professional futures ought to be more important than winning games.

 

[Bomb Squad 217]

Okay, but none of that speaks to their actual performance on the court, which never seems to match the hype.

I know what you're saying. Like their team a couple years ago had, I believe, Jabari, cliff and okafor and they were losing to teams to teams they shouldn't be losing to and close games other teams had no business being in with that kind of talent.

 

[Robert Bennett]

If you ask me, creating opportunity for their players' educational and professional futures ought to be more important than winning games.

If you ask me I think that starts with the parents not the coaches a player talent is going to speak for itself , if you have the talent the coaches come running. The parents groom a kid before the coaches even get Involved.

 

[Illinijose]

Regarding the Mac Fire, they have been loaded with talent from the Chicago area. They don't necessarily develope the talent, they showcase and collect it. I think they do what they are supposed to do, which is to provide high level bb oppurtunities and showcase the players throughout the summer.

I don't think it is their job to provided educational oppurtunities, that is the school and parents job. About 5 years ago that Butler guy who coached the premier Chicago area AAU team in the late 90's said he wasn't as influential as people thought he was. He said he wanted his players to stay instate and pushed Illinois, but he didn't have the final say. He said he got out of AAU coaching because he received little benefit and the players weren't grateful to him. Mentioned a couple of players who went pro that never spoke to him again. I think in some recruitments the Irvin's have a lot of say and in others they don't. I think with DaMonte it was his parent's influence, also with Brunson. I don't think he influence big Cliff to go to Kansas or Okafer to go to Duke.

 

[IlliniBrave75]

NextUpRecruits.com
NextUpRecruits.com – ‏@NextUpRecruits

2017 CG Jordan Goodwin is built like an NBA player and his intensity has not been matched by anyone in Session 1 of EYBL
11:55 AM - 17 Apr 2016

 

[Serious Late]

If you ask me, creating opportunity for their players' educational and professional futures ought to be more important than winning games.

Wut? Again, the point is that the Mac Irvin Fire consistently underperform, year in and year out. No one has attempted to make a point that refutes your statement. Are most AAU coaches not trying to consider their players futures? That seems to be a core requirement. One would imagine the best programs would do both, look out for their players and win basketball games. I can't speak to how much the Irvin's develop players beyond what they already would have developed, but it sure doesn't seem like they win games at the rate they should.

 

[Deleted member 10676]

Today, Meanstreets lost to King James (OH) 74-65, Mac Irvin Fire lost to Team Takeover (DC) 76-55, and St. Louis Eagles lost to Playaz Basketball Club (NJ) 62-53. MS and Eagles finished first session at 2-1; the Fire at 1-2.
Player averages for each team:
http://www.d1circuit.com/stats/team...4&tab=team_instance_player_stats&tool=1794524

http://www.d1circuit.com/stats/team...4&tab=team_instance_player_stats&tool=1794524

http://www.d1circuit.com/stats/team...4&tab=team_instance_player_stats&tool=1794524

For some reason, Finke's stats from the first game are not included but according to Piper he scored 14 points, so his total points would be 34 and his avg. 11.3.

 

[freebird6]

Is there any coach that gets more from less in the country, at any level, than the Irvin's AAU team?

Seems every year, they have one of the most talented AAU teams, only to consistently under perform. k

More from Less?


I think the mission of the summer ball clubs is to win, advance and showcase their talent. Unless they are like the Scholars from WI who have studies as part of their mission, I do not recall any team on the circuit in the last 20 years that just wanted to collect talent and go home early. For your kids to show out they have to win and have to be able to go deep and be seen more often. Primary goal is always to have them putting minutes on the clock and spreading the exposure around.

 

[Serious Late]

More from Less?


I think the mission of the summer ball clubs is to win, advance and showcase their talent. Unless they are like the Scholars from WI who have studies as part of their mission, I do not recall any team on the circuit in the last 20 years that just wanted to collect talent and go home early. For your kids to show out they have to win and have to be able to go deep and be seen more often. Primary goal is always to have them putting minutes on the clock and spreading the exposure around.

Whooooops. Less from more.

 

[Obelix]

Wut? Again, the point is that the Mac Irvin Fire consistently underperform, year in and year out. No one has attempted to make a point that refutes your statement. Are most AAU coaches not trying to consider their players futures? That seems to be a core requirement. One would imagine the best programs would do both, look out for their players and win basketball games. I can't speak to how much the Irvin's develop players beyond what they already would have developed, but it sure doesn't seem like they win games at the rate they should.

The primary purpose of AAU has never been winning. It is about creating opportunities for athletes. I have attended hundreds of AAU games, was involved as a coach on the east coast in the past, and now getting involved again (U12/U13). Yet, I doubt people remember what team won a specific tournaments for long. It is about the athletes, totally different mentality and atmosphere than HS or college ball. It is a huge mingling of athletes, and in most of the top tournaments you will see players from different teams hanging out together.

The Irvins are no saints, and neither is Tai Streets and Meanstreets, but Mac Irvin Fire is a hugely successful program for all the reasons I mentioned before. And they do win, they consistently accumulate points to make all top tournaments.

If anyone tells you that AAU is about "winning" as a primary focus, run! It is about athletes. Generally, coaches try to give opportunities to multiple players. Yesterday, Mac Irvin Fire went 11 deep with 9 players in double digit minutes and no player above 20. Most coaches do that. And quite a few often encourage some of their players to occasionally play on other AAU teams, with guest appearances etc.

AAU is a totally different animal as far as winning than HS or college.