Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread (October 2018)

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#376      

NBB1979

NBB1979
UIUCFAN1
Springfield, IL
NBB1979
coryfor3 said:
I am not sure that there is any good way to resolve this but I feel like we are wasting a lot of official visits on guys that are not going to come here.
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NewFan2011 said:
You have feelings but no evidence. That kinda tells us all we need to know.
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I think there is sufficient evidence to support this - who was the last kid that officially visited (and committed) to Illinois? How many OV's have we had since then without commitments? I don't know how to look think stuff up (but i guarantee someone here does) - I'm sure we've had 5-6 visits, if not more, where we have brought kids in on an OV that committed elsewhere.

That said, you get more visits than scholarships for a reason - but our OV to commitment ratio is about as bad as it can be under BU. (i hadn't even heard of being out of OVs until last year)
 
#377      

PtownIllini8

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PtownIllini8
NBB1979 said:
I think there is sufficient evidence to support this - who was the last kid that officially visited (and committed) to Illinois? How many OV's have we had since then without commitments? I don't know how to look think stuff up (but i guarantee someone here does) - I'm sure we've had 5-6 visits, if not more, where we have brought kids in on an OV that committed elsewhere.

That said, you get more visits than scholarships for a reason - but our OV to commitment ratio is about as bad as it can be under BU. (i hadn't even heard of being out of OVs until last year)
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"If you're not hearing "No" a lot more than you're hearing "Yes" then you're recruiting the wrong guys." Bill Self
 
#378      

PtownIllini8

P
PtownIllini8
IllFanInMi said:
I love this comparing sales to recruiting, IMO it’s apples oranges. Sure, go for the big account, hope for the grand slam. But, If your company told you that you have 10 sales calls to make, and each of those accounts can only choose one supplier out of the 300+ suppliers in the country, and of those 300+, there are a very small percentage that dominate the market and FAR out perform the rest, how would you allocate your man hours? And oh by the way, once you make 10 sales calls in person, you can only email prospects after that, which has proven to be a very unsuccessful way to close a deal.

Recruiting within the confines of the NCAA is very similar to the fantasy football roster I helped my 12 year old daughter with for her math class project. 50 million budget, guys like Gurley and Bell go for 35 million, and you need 16 players. Well, I dug deep, stayed away from the top tier players and found the sleepers to compliment one or two tier 2 priced guys. Guess what, she leads her class after week five and all the boys with the one tier 1 guy who blew their budget are hurting.

I’m all for shooting for the stars and trying to flip a lean, but when you have OV limits and the experts are getting it right the majority of the time, you have to be conservative, or realist with the targets you expend resources on. As Obelix says, JMO
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We're in the final 3 or 4 for pretty much every guy that's taking an OV. Trying to say, "Well, we don't think our chances are strong enough for a frickin' OV" with a guy that has us in the final few schools is a foolish. No way you can take that stance. Think about how that would play to other recruits!
 
#379      

IllFanInMi

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IllFanInMi
PtownIllini8 said:
"If you're not hearing "No" a lot more than you're hearing "Yes" then you're recruiting the wrong guys." Bill Self
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True, but Kansas doesn’t hear near the amount of no’s than most. That is the fallacy here. Self can devote resources to as many 4/5 star kids as us and receive a fraction of the no’s we would, so percentage wise it makes a ton of sense. Self will get far more yes’s than us for the same amount of effort.

And Big Bill doesn’t need to run out of OV’s to get told no enough to jeopardize a class.

This is not to say you can’t swing for the fences in the fall, be a bridesmaid, and sign a strong class in the spring; we just did it, but is what we did repeatable??
 
#380      

Second and Chalmers

S
Second and Chalmers
IllFanInMi said:
This is not to say you can’t swing for the fences in the fall, be a bridesmaid, and sign a strong class in the spring; we just did it, but is what we did repeatable??
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When you've got a million scholarships to fill and you're just casting around for guys, maybe. When you have very specific positional needs to fill, that's where you get in trouble.
 
#382      

IllFanInMi

I
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IllFanInMi
PtownIllini8 said:
We're in the final 3 or 4 for pretty much every guy that's taking an OV. Trying to say, "Well, we don't think our chances are strong enough for a frickin' OV" with a guy that has us in the final few schools is a foolish. No way you can take that stance. Think about how that would play to other recruits!
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I never said we shouldn’t, and as a matter of fact said we should, but at some point the law of diminishing returns takes hold. If Ov’s, UOV’s, texts, phone calls, letters, etc... were created equal, then heck yes, go after every kid in the country. But, at some point, you have to realize we are competing against far superior opponents and you have to crawl before you sprint.
 
#383      

skyIdub

skyIdub
Winged Warrior
skyIdub
drewillini89 said:
Let’s get Guerrier and Tshiebwe in the next week or so. Then no one will have anything to complain about here.
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#386      

IllFanInMi

I
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IllFanInMi
PtownIllini8 said:
We're in the final 3 or 4 for pretty much every guy that's taking an OV. Trying to say, "Well, we don't think our chances are strong enough for a frickin' OV" with a guy that has us in the final few schools is a foolish. No way you can take that stance. Think about how that would play to other recruits!
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Yes, absolutely, twice on Sunday, bring them in and roll out the orange and blue carpet. BUT, use history and actual success rates to prognosticate what your realistic chances are of SIGNING them! I for one would be thrilled with “well we missed on EJ, but XX was waiting for his decision and is all in, so we moved to and signed XX”. However, this has not happened for BU until the spring. Luck, or savvy?
 
#388      

IllFanInMi

I
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IllFanInMi
drewillini89 said:
Let’s get Guerrier and Tshiebwe in the next week or so. Then no one will have anything to complain about here.
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Sorry for being so “negative”, but OMG, history doesn’t lie and if I had a dollar for every post of wait until this guy and that guy and the other guy sign, and we sold our soul for THT vs MIF future recruits, I’d own this website! Time for our expectations and targets to change!
 
#390      

Obelix

Obelix
Obelix
IllFanInMi said:
Sorry for being so “negative”, but OMG, history doesn’t lie and if I had a dollar for every post of wait until this guy and that guy and the other guy sign, and we sold our soul for THT vs MIF future recruits, I’d own this website!
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It's probably cheaper than you think :)
 
#391      

OrangeandBlue33

O
OrangeandBlue33
BRucks said:
You must be new around here.
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<laughing> I remember back in '05, in the midst of one of the greatest Illini seasons ever, there were still people complaining about different things throughout the year. If they couldn't be happy then, I'd hate to be living in their shoes. Life's too short....
 
#396      

Deleted member 643761

D
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Deleted member 643761
NBB1979 said:
I think there is sufficient evidence to support this - who was the last kid that officially visited (and committed) to Illinois? How many OV's have we had since then without commitments? I don't know how to look think stuff up (but i guarantee someone here does) - I'm sure we've had 5-6 visits, if not more, where we have brought kids in on an OV that committed elsewhere.

That said, you get more visits than scholarships for a reason - but our OV to commitment ratio is about as bad as it can be under BU. (i hadn't even heard of being out of OVs until last year)
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The fact that other OVs didn't convert is not evidence that this particular OV is a waste.

What's funny is that if this kid was in the suburbs of Chicago, many complaining wouldn't have a problem. But there's a bias against us being able to get guys from other areas, even though the last few years are demonstrating that our success may very well lie in being able to recruit outside of Illinois.
 
#399      

Illinois13

I
Illinois13
Re-hashing a tough moment this week and went to the buckeye board to see the reaction of landing EJ.

Found 22 posts in the "EJ Liddell" thread - and one with EJ praising Holtman's winning culture.

Maybe OSU has a different bball forum, but damn we need to get it together.
 
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