Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread (Week of April 5th, 2021)

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#1,126      
There was a play about midway through the year where AM dove out of bounds to save a ball and risked injury to toss it back in to Belo I believe.

I can’t remember the game, but when I saw it I was like “oh dang, that dude has BOUGHT IN”.

Maybe he leaves, maybe he doesn’t. But he certainly seemed to be a good teammate on the court and in the locker room. Maybe when outside influences get involved, it messes with that cohesion.

If Adam still has the passion that drove him to make that play, I want him back. If he expects special treatment or a role that is more than the one he has earned, I think it’s time to move on.

Im glad he’s meeting with the coaches today to sort it out. (Hopefully)
 
#1,127      
You either keep changing your argument or you don't understand the original point.

I said "Freshman in the top 100 rarely have an outsized impact"

You responded with Giorgi and Trent.

Maybe you don't understand what outsized means but the reason those two had an outsized impact is precisely because they got a ton of minutes as a freshman.

If our current incoming freshman get a lot of minutes and are needed to be major options on the offensive end, of course they will "outplay" their ranking. But if they are doing that, we will be staring at another 20 loss season.
Just looking at 2020, I’m not sure the “rare” part is true. I mean, half the top 50 look like they had a pretty significant impact on their team. Maybe I’m missing you point though. Admittedly, I haven’t followed the back and forth on this very much.
 
#1,128      
Don't want him don't need him. If he wants to test the portal close the door behind him. He can and will be replaced. Too many prima Donna's through all of sports at all levels, this crap needs to stop.
Too many reactionary tribalists who view the world through a binary "with us or against us" lens through all of society at all levels, this crap needs to stop.
 
#1,132      
Fascinating how you made the leap from "contribute right away" to "make a big impact". Looking at rankings for general purposes is fine. I prefer to look at the individual player. What role will they play? What skills to they bring to the table? Are they a good fit? Do they have enough athletic talent? Based on videos, and recent reports, Melendez looks like a well rounded top 50ish talent. Goode is tall and can shoot (40% from 3). If they can play adequate defense; there is no reason why they can't contribute.

On Miller, I am not sure who "some of you" are, but I thought he made a solid contribution as a freshmen.
What is the difference between big impact and contribute, to you? Is what Hawkins did last year contribute? If so, fine, that level of expectation is reasonable. Just seems like a lot on here are expecting Giorgi/Belo/Miller level contributions from from Goode and Melendez and that level of freshman contribution is very much not the norm for guys outside the top 40 or 50.
 
#1,133      
What is the difference between big impact and contribute, to you? Is what Hawkins did last year contribute? If so, fine, that level of expectation is reasonable. Just seems like a lot on here are expecting Giorgi/Belo/Miller level contributions from from Goode and Melendez and that level of freshman contribution is very much not the norm for guys outside the top 40 or 50.
It’s also two fold. They mostly don’t get the chance to contribute either. Someone is gonna get minutes and will put up numbers.
 
#1,136      
You either keep changing your argument or you don't understand the original point.

I said "Freshman in the top 100 rarely have an outsized impact"

You responded with Giorgi and Trent.

Maybe you don't understand what outsized means but the reason those two had an outsized impact is precisely because they got a ton of minutes as a freshman.

If our current incoming freshman get a lot of minutes and are needed to be major options on the offensive end, of course they will "outplay" their ranking. But if they are doing that, we will be staring at another 20 loss season.
One does not need to be getting a ton of minutes to make an "outsized impact." If a freshman rated ~100 is in the rotation, gets ~15 mpg or more and produces pretty well, that, to me, is having an outsized impact. It's not so much on the game overall, it's vis-a-vis the kid's ranking. Which is what I thought you were talking about. Evidently, it's not.

A freshman could be 5th banana and still be making an outsized impact in my book.
 
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#1,138      
What is the difference between big impact and contribute, to you? Is what Hawkins did last year contribute? If so, fine, that level of expectation is reasonable. Just seems like a lot on here are expecting Giorgi/Belo/Miller level contributions from from Goode and Melendez and that level of freshman contribution is very much not the norm for guys outside the top 40 or 50.
It seems rather obvious that contribute and make a big impact are not the same thing. Kofi made a big impact. Grandison contributed. I think Goode and Melendez can at least make solid rotation level contributions -- if they can play defense at this level.

Right now we are replacing Ayo, Trent, and GB in the rotation. I'd guess 50/50 on Kofi. I suspect slightly more likely than not Miller and Williams return.

Those who selectively only look at ratings are pessimistic about our oft injured D-3 transfer and 2 "fringe" top 100 freshmen (except ratings do not apply to our top 50 big transfer). Those who go by videos and recent reports are fairly encouraged.
 
#1,139      
Don't want him don't need him. If he wants to test the portal close the door behind him. He can and will be replaced. Too many prima Donna's through all of sports at all levels, this crap needs to stop.
So, you're saying that teenagers should stop making mistakes, and that athletes should never look out for their own interests. Gotcha.
 
#1,140      
There was a play about midway through the year where AM dove out of bounds to save a ball and risked injury to toss it back in to Belo I believe.

I can’t remember the game, but when I saw it I was like “oh dang, that dude has BOUGHT IN”.

Maybe he leaves, maybe he doesn’t. But he certainly seemed to be a good teammate on the court and in the locker room. Maybe when outside influences get involved, it messes with that cohesion.

If Adam still has the passion that drove him to make that play, I want him back. If he expects special treatment or a role that is more than the one he has earned, I think it’s time to move on.

Im glad he’s meeting with the coaches today to sort it out. (Hopefully)

Yeah, that's the guy I saw last season.

If he was a prima donna he kept it well hidden.

Actually, I wish Adam had shown a bit more confidence in his game (especially, his shot) as a freshman. There seemed to be some games where, if he got off to a cold start shooting, he'd back off and defer some good looks. If he's back I think that will improve.

His commitment to defense was consistent throughout the season, which was great to see, and something that's often missing in the "me first" guys.

His "sin" here really isn't a big one. He put his name in the portal, big deal. He sure isn't alone.

It's not like he did a tell-all interview with Oprah lashing out at Brad, Josh and all his teammates. :)
 
#1,142      
I'll say this. Underwood has to find out whether Miller is calling the shots or his mom. If Miller is calling the shots he needs to accept his role face to face with Brad Underwood or move on.
Yeah, I'm not advocating groveling, begging or even making concessions. Miller knows he'll have opportunity. Just needs to tell Underwood that he's driving the car, not mom.
 
#1,143      
I responded to this:

"Top 100 guys can play big roles, can be studs, etc. in their freshman year."

Would you equate 15 mpg and producing pretty well to "play big roles, can be studs"?
All of this discussion based on their high school rank is driving me nuts. Clearly, if you are a top 10 player then things are different.
For example. my memory tells me that Luther Head was somewhere between 100 and 150. Don't we all wish that we would have a young
Luther Head on next year's team. These rankings have nothing to do with, learning, experience, and growth, in other words, everything
our coaching staff is trying to develop with these young kids. Everybody like number categories, but they can be the most inaccurate and
misleading measure of talent that exists. It is what the player does with it that is critical. No argument, I would love it if all of our players
were top 100, but life is not always that simple. Granted highly rated incoming talent that is willing to work hard is a great situation, but the
key is "willing to work hard."
 
#1,144      
I responded to this:

"Top 100 guys can play big roles, can be studs, etc. in their freshman year."

with this:

"Fringe top 100 guys rarely have an outsized impact their freshman year..."

Now I don't think 15 mpg and a decent contribution to be an "outsized impact", but that aside, would you equate 15 mpg and producing pretty well to "play big roles, can be studs"?
So you would agree that 'contribute' and 'make a big impact' are not the same thing?
 
#1,145      
Montgomery County, Maryland
Trent's going pro

20210409_185922.jpg
 
#1,146      
No one is saying they don't want these kids.

But there is a fairly strong correlation between high school rank and freshman year production. Of course it's not a perfect correlation, but there is a correlation there.

I am thrilled to have the guys we have coming in and expect them to be very solid contributors over their careers. But for next year, my expectations are incredibly tempered. Luther Head averaged 4.5 points per game in a little over 16mpg his freshman year, to use the person in your example.
I agree as a general rule, don't expect to much of a contribution from a freshman, but those freshman can turn into very good players.
That was my whole point. Back to Luther, 4.5 points in 18 minutes is not that bad. I hope that our freshman are in that ballgame.
 
#1,147      
Yes, I would agree. I never said they were the same, however.

I expect the freshman to contribute. There are people on this board who think they will make a big impact and that is who I disagree with.
Yeah, didn’t say that bud. Said top 100 players can (not will) be studs in response to your condescending post stating it was laughable to compare Goode and Melendez with Miller and Curbelo. But hey, since you obviously have a crystal ball—what transfers are coming in?

The recruits we are talking about had large parts of their AAU seasons taken off the board by COVID. Maybe Melendez and Goode are worse than top 100 guys, maybe they’re better. You seem to be putting a lot of stock into rankings during a difficult time to evaluate talent. My point was that it’s premature to compare recruits that haven’t suited up yet with those that just wrapped their freshman year.
 
#1,148      
Tinley Park
If Zakharov wants to come here, absolutely take him. Kid can move and shoot. Saw someone say he’s a Russian Giorgi....1) I’ll take that and 2) his ability is more advanced than Giorgi. Look what our staff did with Giorgi. Now apply that to this kid.

Clip from 2017 I think....the music sucks, but the kid can move, has a jumper and the little grammatical errors are amusing:

This one is just a “meet the players”, but he says he likes to play defense:
The kid guarding him is only 5-10!?
 
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