Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread

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#76      

HailtotheChief

H
HailtotheChief
amillini#2 said:
Being good at coaching and being a good recruiter are not mutually exclusive. Player development, game management, team morale among many other skills are involved. One can be good/bad at different parts of the job.
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Who was the last successful coach we had that was not a quality recruiter,? You can't win at an elite level in the power 5 without being a quality recruiter. If so name an Illini coach who did. BU was a great coach when he got here but the difference is his ability to recruit better players and then develop them. What you have to work with is vital to succeed in the B10 and power conferences
 
#78      

DeonThomas

DeonThomas
South Carolina
DeonThomas
Homecoming 2019 said:
Disagree, St. Johns has a more historic program. And it's more about going to a school that will be relevant nationally or make the tourney while you are there which both Santa Clara and St. Johns have a better shot at doing.
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I tend to agree with you. South Carolina has just the one recent good season. USC is really a football school historically.

ST. JOHNS: New York City. Louie Carneseca. Chris Mullen. Mark Jackson. Bill Wennington. The Georgetown, Syracuse and Villanova rivalries. And then throw Madison Square Garden into the equation too. Curbelo made the right choice. He should really shine in the big spotlight next season.
 
#79      

BRucks

BRucks
BRucks
JFGsCoffeeMug said:
When someone says Howard is not a good coach, and your response is that he's a good recruiter, that pretty much tells us everything we need to know about his overall coaching ability.
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With the drastic change that is happening in collegiate basketball I think recruiting is increasing in importance and development is decreasing. No longer can you expect to bring a guy in and hope to develope him over 4 or 5 years. You can expect to have significant turnover every year. That means that you will need to bring in multiple players each year.
 
#80      

Brosky

B
Brosky
amillini#2 said:
Being good at coaching and being a good recruiter are not mutually exclusive. Player development, game management, team morale among many other skills are involved. One can be good/bad at different parts of the job.
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Dennie Bridges, retired Illinois Wesleyan coach and AD, always said "The way to win is to get off the bus with the best players." And Bridges has plenty of banners hanging from the rafters of the Shirk Center.
 
#81      

the juiceman cometh

T
the juiceman cometh
bluemountain said:
SC is in a bigger conference, but St John's is clearly a higher profile program with a whole lot more history and better recruiting territory. The SC men's BB program is at best 4th in the pecking order there, behind FB, Baseball, Women's BB and possibly soccer
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Looking at recruiting over the last few years, SC outperforms St. John's, so it's likely the general public weights the bigger conference higher and the history lower than you do.
 
#82      

ILLFAN67

I
ILLFAN67
HailtotheChief said:
Seriously why, BU and his staff are good recruiters. That doesn't make them poor coaches,l. it makes them good ones. I didn't say Howard was a great coach but he is a great recruiter and him and Woodson I feel are our biggest opposition. If you don't that's fine but his recruit record says he is much better coach and recruiter than Clownzo . Like it or not they did better than us lately in the tourney due to his talented roster and his recruiting prowess. I hate saying Ng that too because I am not a fan of his but those are the facts
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I would say Howard has not been a bad coach. Big ten title in 21. Sweet 16 appearance in 22. I think I like BU better as a coach. To be as competitive as we have been over the last 3 yrs and how we have stayed atop the Big has to have something to do with coaching? I think we have ran into some bad luck & poor shooting in the NCAA’s.
 
#83      

amillini#2

A
amillini#2
HailtotheChief said:
Who was the last successful coach we had that was not a quality recruiter,? You can't win at an elite level in the power 5 without being a quality recruiter. If so name an Illini coach who did. BU was a great coach when he got here but the difference is his ability to recruit better players and then develop them. What you have to work with is vital to succeed in the B10 and power conferences
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There is likely to be a correlation between being a good coach and a good recruiter as it is one of the vital skills necessary to being successful. Being just a good recruiter, however, does not necessarily make one a good coach, see C Martin as an example. At the risk of opening the protective covering of a deep rabbit hole, one could argue that Weber was a good coach who could not recruit. He did a heck of a job with Self’s players. His lack of recruiting was his ultimate downfall, but, one could still say he demonstrated many positive coaching skills.
 
#84      

Brosky

B
Brosky
BRucks said:
With the drastic change that is happening in collegiate basketball I think recruiting is increasing in importance and development is decreasing. No longer can you expect to bring a guy in and hope to develope him over 4 or 5 years. You can expect to have significant turnover every year. That means that you will need to bring in multiple players each year.
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I think you're right. The landscape of college athletics is changing dramatically (almost day by day) with NIL, the revised transfer portal and collectives. There are now several states allowing high school athletes to receive NIL $$ already.
 
#87      

ElGran

E
ElGran
BRucks said:
With the drastic change that is happening in collegiate basketball I think recruiting is increasing in importance and development is decreasing. No longer can you expect to bring a guy in and hope to develope him over 4 or 5 years. You can expect to have significant turnover every year. That means that you will need to bring in multiple players each year.
Click to expand...
Yup. Obviously, recruiting has always been a big part of a coach's job, but it's now an even bigger part. Obviously you still have to coach them, but the develop a kid over 4-5 years thing is less of a factor now.
 
#89      

Epsilon

Epsilon
M tipping over
Pdx
Epsilon
DeonThomas said:
I tend to agree with you. South Carolina has just the one recent good season. USC is really a football school historically.

ST. JOHNS: New York City. Louie Carneseca. Chris Mullen. Mark Jackson. Bill Wennington. The Georgetown, Syracuse and Villanova rivalries. And then throw Madison Square Garden into the equation too. Curbelo made the right choice. He should really shine in the big spotlight next season.
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Neither school has been particularly relevant in the 21st century in general, but I wish both players the best.

www.sports-reference.com

St. John's (NY) Red Storm Men's Basketball Index | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

Check out the St. John's (NY) Red Storm College Basketball History, Stats, Records, Polls, Leaders and More College Basketball Stats at Sports-Reference.com
www.sports-reference.com www.sports-reference.com

www.sports-reference.com

South Carolina Gamecocks Men's Basketball Index | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

Check out the South Carolina Gamecocks College Basketball History, Stats, Records, Polls, Leaders and More College Basketball Stats at Sports-Reference.com
www.sports-reference.com www.sports-reference.com
 
#90      

sacraig

sacraig
The desert
sacraig
Homecoming 2019 said:
Disagree, St. Johns has a more historic program. And it's more about going to a school that will be relevant nationally or make the tourney while you are there which both Santa Clara and St. Johns have a better shot at doing.
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bluemountain said:
SC is in a bigger conference, but St John's is clearly a higher profile program with a whole lot more history and better recruiting territory. The SC men's BB program is at best 4th in the pecking order there, behind FB, Baseball, Women's BB and possibly soccer
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If you are arguing about profile in the NYC or New England area, sure. But go poll a random casual basketball fan elsewhere and see if they've seen more/heard more about St. Johns or South Carolina. The SEC has far more national visibility than the Big East, even if St. Johns has a stronger history. It's a lot easier to find South Carolina on TV nationwide that St. Johns.

Again, I said higher profile, not strongest historical program.
 
#91      

Licensed2ILL

Licensed2ILL
Licensed2ILL
ILLFAN67 said:
I would say Howard has not been a bad coach. Big ten title in 21*. Sweet 16 appearance in 22. I think I like BU better as a coach. To be as competitive as we have been over the last 3 yrs and how we have stayed atop the Big has to have something to do with coaching? I think we have ran into some bad luck & poor shooting in the NCAA’s.
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FIFY
 
#92      

theNewGuy

theNewGuy
Dallas, TX
theNewGuy
bluemountain said:
SC is in a bigger conference, but St John's is clearly a higher profile program with a whole lot more history and better recruiting territory. The SC men's BB program is at best 4th in the pecking order there, behind FB, Baseball, Women's BB and possibly soccer
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I think it all depends on when you grew up. I'm 24 and barely know anything about St. Johns let alone where it's located. I don't doubt that it has a better history of BB, BUT South Carolina is a very prominent SCHOOL that is recognizable around the US and even more so with young people for it's mascot, go cocks!
Being in the SEC and as a FAR more recognizable BRAND, I would have to say that SC is the highest profile program.
 
#94      

Mobi

M
Mobi
theNewGuy said:
I think it all depends on when you grew up. I'm 24 and barely know anything about St. Johns let alone where it's located. I don't doubt that it has a better history of BB, BUT South Carolina is a very prominent SCHOOL that is recognizable around the US and even more so with young people for it's mascot, go cocks!
Being in the SEC and as a FAR more recognizable BRAND, I would have to say that SC is the highest profile program.
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South Carolina is obviously the more known school because everyone knows which state it is located at compared to St John’s. LOL.
 
#95      

DAM1298

D
DAM1298
#96      

skyIdub

skyIdub
Winged Warrior
skyIdub
Queens, NY: Elevation 43' above sea level

Columbia, SC: Elevation 292' above sea level

USC has the higher profile.

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#97      

sacraig

sacraig
The desert
sacraig
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