All of these absurd hoops the NCAA and the schools adopt are just nonsensical attempts to avoid making student athletes paid employees. If they’d scrap these silly moves and actually pay the players directly, they could sign contracts with rules and structures that could actually be enforced and bring about penalties should either side break the deal.
Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread
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Education?! LOL!Oh I don’t disagree … For me though, it’s about education … I mean with all this transferring you’ve got kids like Tre Mitchell who have changed schools 4 years in a row … How many of those kinds of kids are graduating ? Very few …
Just stating what’s being said … Don’t shoot the messenger …
Illini2010-11
- Sugar Grove
I don't necessarily disagree with you, but it is an extremely complex situation. If you go with that direct route of making these athletes paid employees, then the idea of a student athlete is, IMO, totally dead in the water (though it is probably already true). I think the NCAA is simply trying to delay the inevitable. I am torn on the issue, as I think the athletes should value their education, but these high-end athletes are already leaving without degrees and using college as a stepping stone for the pros.
With the inception of so many alternatives to college for high school basketball players, the NCAA is being forced to adapt or die. I think the end game will be paid employees, but I am not sure how I feel about it for various reasons, especially for the athletes that are not going to go pro after college.
The biggest education for a lot of these kids is how taxes work to take a bite out of their NIL.
Joel Goodson
- ties will be resolved
Oh I don’t disagree … For me though, it’s about education … I mean with all this transferring you’ve got kids like Tre Mitchell who have changed schools 4 years in a row … How many of those kinds of kids are graduating ? Very few …
Just stating what’s being said … Don’t shoot the messenger …
a big chunk of high major kids don't give a hoot about education. which is a little tragic, considering how few will actually make a living playing ball. not a new problem though
I hope you don't mean for PG. If a freshman can't handle it, how is a HS senior?
I don’t see how this would help. Wouldn’t we just ride with DGL at that point?
No doubt it’s complex and it would radically change the landscape, but in my opinion, the concept of the “student athlete,” at least in the revenue generating sports, has been a myth for quite some time.
I suppose if you paid the players directly and didn’t require them to take classes (effectively, just a professional athlete for a college team) you could institute a salary cap across the entire sport, leveling the playing field for everyone. However, that still wouldn’t eliminate endorsement deals, which could still operate as the current NIL model. For many schools, that would mean the salary cap is just one small hurdle to step over.
I do believe we’re heading this direction and the powers that be are desperately trying to cling to the vestiges of their cash cow. When the change does come, it will probably come swiftly.
A couple things:
There is a clear positive correlation between success and % of minutes returning. So ideally we need to figure out how to get better at recruiting, developing, and retaining younger players vs shopping for 1 year guys in the portal.
Last year, we were basically tied with OSU for last in the B1G in minutes returning with about 16%. This year, we return almost 60% so I do think we have a pretty decent floor. But then the following year, assuming we have at least one transfer out, we slip back to probably the 30-40% range.
WRT transfers, it's been said over and over, "Everyone is going through it right now." True. Everyone is going through it, but not everyone is going through it equally. I did the math recently and if I remember correctly, only IU and MN have had more transfers out in the portal era.
Net net, in terms of talent retention, we have room for improvement and as the NCAA loosens player movement restrictions, retention will become even more critical.
There is a clear positive correlation between success and % of minutes returning. So ideally we need to figure out how to get better at recruiting, developing, and retaining younger players vs shopping for 1 year guys in the portal.
Last year, we were basically tied with OSU for last in the B1G in minutes returning with about 16%. This year, we return almost 60% so I do think we have a pretty decent floor. But then the following year, assuming we have at least one transfer out, we slip back to probably the 30-40% range.
WRT transfers, it's been said over and over, "Everyone is going through it right now." True. Everyone is going through it, but not everyone is going through it equally. I did the math recently and if I remember correctly, only IU and MN have had more transfers out in the portal era.
Net net, in terms of talent retention, we have room for improvement and as the NCAA loosens player movement restrictions, retention will become even more critical.
illiniswish09
- Northwest Suburbs
Doesn’t look like we are very heavily involved in Joe Toussaint… Visited Texas Tech and Kansas State, about to visit Alabama and has zoom calls with Gonzaga and Miami this week…
Tevo
- Wilmette, IL
As has been stated, it's a lot more like free agency in pro sports. You still need to teach schemes and roles, but the roster will change over significantly from year to year. But even in free agency, guys tend to sign multi-year contracts, so you have SOME ability to predict the next season's roster and can build a team of complementary players. Does NIL allow for a long-term contract (multi-year) with buyout provisions, etc? At some point, you may find pairs or groups of players who decide to stay together because they think they'll be more successful together, and thus improve all of their profiles. Just like in free agency.
Tevo
- Wilmette, IL
The system has kind of decided these "kids" are no longer kids -- they are grown up/professionals -- and thus it's no longer the responsibility of the school/coach to develop them into good productive citizens or community members. I don't agree with that, because God knows most 18-22 years don't know shi...er...poop about being a grown up.
That is too bad. I like him a lot and think he would solidify the position and raise our ceiling.
The new fertile ground for hiring head coaches might come from the Juco ranks. Juco coaches deal with complete roster overhauls every year. These are the coaches who’ll be mentally prepared to deal with the new normal in big time college hoops.
Rocket City Illini
- Belleville, IL
I lived in North Alabama 12 years - moved back to Illinois in 2020. In my experience if their basketball team is good, that’s cool and all, but they don’t live and breathe it all year like this board. They’re lucky to know their roster.
Football is the obsession 12 months out of the year. I asked what MLB team folks rooted for when I first moved there and they all looked at me like I had two heads - followed by “Saban for President”
It’s the sad reality … We’ve completely just forgotten a main component of development of our STUDENT athletes … The ball stops bouncing for 90% of these kids after college …
We weren’t ever going to be in it …
It's been answered ad nauseam. Like any business transaction it's between the employer and the employee. In Skyy's case he was paid out in full but there is nothing in place enforcing that he had to be.
Will need better NIL Ks to avoid routine double dipping
I think this could go the other way. With other choices available for the 1-2 and done crowd, the NCAA could tighten the rules to push the game back toward college student athletes.
I'd add rules about NIL at the NCAA level. They are hard to add at a school or even conference level, even when everyone wants them, because they make the offer less attractive than the competitors. Some rules might be:
* Players who are not available to the team, other than for medically certified injury, are not eligible to be paid.
* Players who transfer, other than for graduation, must pay back 1/2 of the NIL received over their entire stay.
90%(?) of NIL money gets paid to escrow accounts, with the balance to be settled upon departure.
In another direction, I'd be fine with rules that pushed back toward *student* athletes. E.g. Freshman don't play. Let them adjust to college life and being a student. Maybe even raise the minimum GPA for Freshman to have continued eligibility to help them actually become students. (Don't like it, go another route.) If Freshman can't play, I'd see if I could legally add no NIL for Freshman.
Whether or not you think this will improve the game depends on what you want to see. I want to see student athletes who play 3-4 years. I'll take the improved offensive and defensive schemes and team play that develops when players are together for years vs. the transitory athletic freaks. I can always watch the NBA for those (and I rarely do). I had a lot of respect for Bo Ryan's teams and methods.
Agree. Our incoming recruits are often overhyped and there are claims that if "this was a Duke recruit he would be Top 50 vs Top 100, or a McDAA instead of Top 60"
In DGL case I think we may have a gotten a kid undervalued in the rankings. Could be a player so let's get him out there and see what he can do.
1m4tr
Cliffmas
We weren’t enamored w him as a player or the alumni weren’t willing to pony up any money for a guy like him? I guess no one liked him enough?
Seems like a mistake but I don’t know anything.
10 years, College Bball looks like the AAU industry. Coaches/fans on the floor yelling at players and officials, more of a business than basketball.
Of course, I also think we are less than 10 years from JH/HS being a thing of the past, mostly because of parents, but also lack of officials, mostly because of said parents.
Nothing wrong with that, but it begs the question: what the heck are colleges doing pretending they are offering one when it's just a façade for having a minor league sports team? Why aren't the offer to kids who actually want to pursue a higher education?
I know, I know...decisions are driven by money rather than educational mission, and college athletics has evolved into a Frankenstein organization that no one can control, and demands to be fed. I suppose education is a factor on the margins or in a few cases, but it's dwarfed by the influence of money. I'm extremely cynical on the NCAA and the members being able to make meaningful reform --they can't help themselves except to continue trying to milk college sports for all they can get out of it. And to be fair to the NCAA, trying to combine education and what is essentially for-profit sports, has tons of complex issues.
Maybe they'll figure out transfer rules that make sense. Not gonna hold my breath.
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