In all fairness, signing Jase Butler is equally distant from reality at this point as well.
Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread
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In all fairness, signing Jase Butler is equally distant from reality at this point as well.
Butler was one of the four he listed.
We may not even get Jase Butler zomg someone put me out of my misery
Bigtex
- DFW
Big IF listed there. how many signings are good enough 4? 3? 2? 1?
I'm not that worried about recruiting. But I'm not a big fan of the pollyannish attitude that some have that is followed by criticisms of those who don't share it.
Our recruiting right now is just OK. I'd like to see better.
The pollyannish attitudes and subsequent criticisms are likely in response to the sky-is-falling group and not so much you. We all want to see better recruiting.
On recruiting rankings, the current staff has pulled in more than their fair share of highly ranked kids. Ty, Skyy and Epps from 2 years ago. Amani this year. Morez next year.
But think you also have to look at a roster holistically. You can’t have 13 stars on your team. No one will be happy. You need role players. For example, of course you need an Ayo to be successful. But you also need DaMontes and Grandis.
As for the Nicos, Jackstys (sp.?) and Butlers, developmental pieces make a lot of sense for your 11/12/13 spots assuming the players’ and staffs’ expectations align. The hope is these guys learn the systems, be culture guys an and can fill a role as upperclassmen.
Just a couple more points about some of the more recent commits. DGL was at one point a five star and was one of the leading scorers in the OTE circuit. Seems like a big time sleeper and certainly a top 100 level talent. And Jason looks to be on a meteoric rise, now just outside the top 100 at 110. Experience has shown you would take a kid that is on an upward trajectory over a kid like James Brown who has seen his ranking plummet (Mike Shaw anyone?), even though Brown might be higher ranked at this point in time.
And finally, getting back to my stars vs role players point. You win in CBB with guards, and I do think it’s fair to point out we are thin in the backcourt in the stars department after this year. If we strike out on Lewis, DGL looks to be our only current commit with star potential. But there’s lots of time. Fears may re class. And we have no idea who will be in the portal next year and we should be attractive given our need and NIL $$ which will likely be freed up after Coleman and Terrance depart.
Long winded way of saying this staff is recruiting fine. Agree the last few takes have been lower ranked but not sure that is evidence of a drop off. We land Lewis and we are right back in that sweet spot of top 50-100 potential stars who will likely be in college 3-4 years.
But think you also have to look at a roster holistically. You can’t have 13 stars on your team. No one will be happy. You need role players. For example, of course you need an Ayo to be successful. But you also need DaMontes and Grandis.
As for the Nicos, Jackstys (sp.?) and Butlers, developmental pieces make a lot of sense for your 11/12/13 spots assuming the players’ and staffs’ expectations align. The hope is these guys learn the systems, be culture guys an and can fill a role as upperclassmen.
Just a couple more points about some of the more recent commits. DGL was at one point a five star and was one of the leading scorers in the OTE circuit. Seems like a big time sleeper and certainly a top 100 level talent. And Jason looks to be on a meteoric rise, now just outside the top 100 at 110. Experience has shown you would take a kid that is on an upward trajectory over a kid like James Brown who has seen his ranking plummet (Mike Shaw anyone?), even though Brown might be higher ranked at this point in time.
And finally, getting back to my stars vs role players point. You win in CBB with guards, and I do think it’s fair to point out we are thin in the backcourt in the stars department after this year. If we strike out on Lewis, DGL looks to be our only current commit with star potential. But there’s lots of time. Fears may re class. And we have no idea who will be in the portal next year and we should be attractive given our need and NIL $$ which will likely be freed up after Coleman and Terrance depart.
Long winded way of saying this staff is recruiting fine. Agree the last few takes have been lower ranked but not sure that is evidence of a drop off. We land Lewis and we are right back in that sweet spot of top 50-100 potential stars who will likely be in college 3-4 years.
That is good enough. I will celebrate collectively with the rest of the board. Personally, I think we land Butler and Gill out of that group. If that's the case then it's very meh....
Bigtex
- DFW
I agree recruiting is OK. But when you say recruiting is OK and compare it to coach salary being paid - Most want more than OK in both recruiting and NCAA tournament success (which is most instances go hand in hand)
This is were I'm more or less at. Sometimes the "meatball" takes that our evaluators are better then the national evaluators can be cringe.
Right. The baseline shouldn't be where we were under the Groce years. It should be based on how our staff is being compensated(top 10). At least that's how it works in the real world. Josh has really opened up the coffers for this staff and we shouldn't be afraid to keep a relatively high bar for them.
skyIdub
Winged Warrior
I haven't seen many silly takes like that. More that our coaching staff is better at evaluation than the guys running websites, and not that our message board posters are better at evaluation than the guys running websites. Big difference there, and I agree with you, it'd be cringey if the latter was what people were saying.
please remember that with portal influx, filling out a scholarship roster depends taking chances on developmental players
Having 10- 4 and 5 stars, many of which aren't happy, really only a blue blood problem and many of those kids not seeing
the court and moving on.. you hope that these kids are as ID'd and aren't going to move on before they get on the court.
"you pay your money and take your chances".
Recruiting has been generally good in my opinion, however, retention and buy-in have been more problematic. I also think that while Brad has been largely successful portalling, I do think it has come at the expense of young player development, and long-term team chemistry.
The portal is a lot like a mystery box with really shiny wrapping paper that goes up for auction. You may indeed win that huge bidding war and get to thump your chest a few times, but at the end of the day, you have no idea what you're bringing home, and it's replacing one of the presents you opened last year. I think the portal can work to supplement a good team and make them a great team, but my gut feel is anything more than that tends to be fool's gold.
Overall, I like the renewed focus on recruits as I think getting buy-in, developing long term player and team chemistry, and retaining top talent is more profitable long-term than portalling.
As for the star level of a recruit, I think it's somewhat overblown. Yes, recruiting a team of 3 stars does lower your ceiling and rarely leads to a title contender, but averaging 1 3star recruit a year, is a big nothing burger. If you speculate on them and they don't work out, then you still have 9 4star plus players on your team who will take up all the playing time. And if you hit on one or two of those 3 stars, then that's great and gives your team additional options and flexibility when one of those higher rated recruits looks like a bust. The most important thing is if you're going to speculate on a 3star or lower recruit, make sure they're a great chemistry guy, with a good motor.
The portal is a lot like a mystery box with really shiny wrapping paper that goes up for auction. You may indeed win that huge bidding war and get to thump your chest a few times, but at the end of the day, you have no idea what you're bringing home, and it's replacing one of the presents you opened last year. I think the portal can work to supplement a good team and make them a great team, but my gut feel is anything more than that tends to be fool's gold.
Overall, I like the renewed focus on recruits as I think getting buy-in, developing long term player and team chemistry, and retaining top talent is more profitable long-term than portalling.
As for the star level of a recruit, I think it's somewhat overblown. Yes, recruiting a team of 3 stars does lower your ceiling and rarely leads to a title contender, but averaging 1 3star recruit a year, is a big nothing burger. If you speculate on them and they don't work out, then you still have 9 4star plus players on your team who will take up all the playing time. And if you hit on one or two of those 3 stars, then that's great and gives your team additional options and flexibility when one of those higher rated recruits looks like a bust. The most important thing is if you're going to speculate on a 3star or lower recruit, make sure they're a great chemistry guy, with a good motor.
IlliniKat91
- Chicago, IL
Some kids just really hate high school (I see it all the time in my daily life). Plus, they get access to better facilities, coaching, nutritionists, strength and conditioning, and recovery than they would in high school. There are reasons to want to start their college career sooner, but it's also a matter of making sure you're getting good advice and not just jumping in to jump in.
Joel Goodson
- respect my decision™
not to mention, getting to The League a year sooner (which realistically only applies to the cream). re-classing is going to be much more prevalent for that group.
@Joel Goodson , you are high on Jase Butler what do you see?
He's got visits scheduled to LSU and Ole Miss over the next couple weeks...
And his lead recruiter at LSU just left to take a G League job ...
I think he will be in decision mode after those visits for sure ... He will be signing early ... Our staff was pretty confident after dinner last night ...
If you want my bold prediction... I think we get Lewis and Butler committed and signed this fall and are done with prep recruiting for 2024 ... I think Brad locks down Gill on his visit in October ... The start of the 2025 class ... And we get Fears on his visit in October ... Then in January he commits and whatever class he wants to be in ... He's a take ...
Illinois has went back and forth on taking Jeremiah Fears in 2024 (reclassifying seems likely) and I don't think that has played all that well with Jeremiah or his dad. The Illini are still a top option, but I think it's trending in the wrong direction, frankly.
Duke, Nova, UConn, UNC, Kansas, Florida have won 15 of the last 20 NCAA championships. Statistically this shows one of two things: outliers (super rosters see Floridas second championship) or experimental tampering (no explanation needed). It should be nearly impossible for 6 out of the 300+ samples to have a success rate of 75%. My point being success in the NCAA Tournament is a really bad measure of coaching success and more a study in the marriage of television, the NCAA and Las Vegas.
Bigtex
- DFW
this has the feel of the older Fears recruitment Jeremy was ready to commit and rumor has it, Illinois wanted more time. a couple of weeks latter he verballed with Michigan state.
Man, if the staff could not commit to whether they would be willing to take Fears in 2024(would be our highest rated kid this century) that is a bigger ball drop then they had with his brother. Mind-numbing if true.
I would love to hear Indy's take on this...
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