Don’t know where to put this but at this point let’s bring back Marcus domask and Kofi
Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread
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Ok, if he's eligible, just gotta throw my hands up at this point and admit I really don't understand who is and is not eligible to play anymore.
college sports keep becoming a bigger and bigger farce
Wait....what? How is this guy eligible?
We are weeks, months, maybe a year? Away from seeing guys who got drafted after 1 year of college ball coming back. Probably gonna be a guy that never sees the floor in a NBA game....gets relegated to the G League...then realizes he could make more going back to college.
It sounds silly but someone will try it.
madillini4
Ozamataz Buckshank
- Millywaukee
Been awhile since I’ve had no clue who we are seriously recruiting. Like, no idea.
you may not know the names but you know the region
Yeah…and THEY don’t either apparently. Just making it up as they go.
Building off this. Wanted to look at how the next 40 (41 - 80) compared to the top 40.
2 went pro
19 stayed at the same school
19 transferred
Biggest difference is obviously the amount of pro level talent.
There are about twice as many transfers in this range but what surprised me was that if you control for the pro departures, the transfer rate only increased by about 14%.
But if you consider sending a player to the pros to be a successful outcome then for the top 40, 75% of those players ended in a "good" outcome for their team (retain or go pro) while for the next 40, only 53% ended in a good outcome.
theNewGuy
- Dallas, TX
I've never been a fan of the draft rules for NBA and NFL. It just logically seems like it was made up out of thin air.
NBA: Have to be 19 during draft year and 1 year removed from high school.
NFL: 3 years removed from high school.
Once you declare for the draft, you can't go back.
NHL makes way more sense:
If your 18 before the season starts, you're eligible to be drafted. (Legal adult age) (If a kid can play at the highest level, he should) (Would get rid of the pressure to declare early, especially for football) (kids are invited to NFL training camps and get experience about what "professional" means)
If you get drafted you can still, play in college, juniors, or other professional leagues, but your rights to play in the NHL are still owned by the team that drafted you. (This let's team draft players who have "potential" but may not be ready to play in the NHL or AHL)
NHL teams have farm teams for younger players that aren't ready for NHL. (Helps teams control the development of players)
If you declare to play for NCAA, juniors, or other league, you have to stay the whole season for that team. (eliminates breakout players from just being plucked midseason by their NHL club)
NBA: Have to be 19 during draft year and 1 year removed from high school.
NFL: 3 years removed from high school.
Once you declare for the draft, you can't go back.
NHL makes way more sense:
If your 18 before the season starts, you're eligible to be drafted. (Legal adult age) (If a kid can play at the highest level, he should) (Would get rid of the pressure to declare early, especially for football) (kids are invited to NFL training camps and get experience about what "professional" means)
If you get drafted you can still, play in college, juniors, or other professional leagues, but your rights to play in the NHL are still owned by the team that drafted you. (This let's team draft players who have "potential" but may not be ready to play in the NHL or AHL)
NHL teams have farm teams for younger players that aren't ready for NHL. (Helps teams control the development of players)
If you declare to play for NCAA, juniors, or other league, you have to stay the whole season for that team. (eliminates breakout players from just being plucked midseason by their NHL club)
I had put this together the other day, but never posted it because I felt the topic had already been argued into oblivion and people were probably upset with me for being annoying by posting several messages about the same thing in a span of an hour.... but I should probably go ahead and share and see what folks think:
Last year's Final Four teams:
Duke:
FR - Flagg (#1 RSCI)
FR - Knueppel (#14 RSCI)
FR - Maluach (#51 RSCI, so not top 40)
FR - I.Evans (14 mpg, 7 ppg... worth the money or no?)
FR - Ngongba (10 mpg, 4 ppg... worth the money or no?)
Duke had a senior backcourt in Proctor and James as well as Foster, Gillis and Brown off the bench (all upperclassmen).
Florida:
ZERO (0) top 40 RSCI freshmen
Led by a backcourt of 3 senior guards who were all transfers from mid/low major programs
All 10 players who averaged 9 mpg or more were upperclassmen, so Florida had ZERO (0) freshmen or sophs playing at all
Houston:
Also ZERO (0) top 40 RSCI freshmen
Led by a backcourt of 2 senior and 1 junior guards, none of which were top 40 recruits (Cryer #83 RSCI, Uzan #70, Martin unranked)
J'Wan Roberts - 5th year senior
Tugler - junior
Wilson - 5th year senior
Arceneaux - junior
Francis - senior
Total count for Houston's rotation - same as Florida: ZERO (0) freshmen or sophs in the rotation at all
Auburn:
Auburn did happen to have a single top 40 frosh in Pettiford
Led by Johni Broome, 5th year senior transfer from Morehead St
Baker-Mazara, senior transfer from SD State/Duquesne
Miles Kelly, senior transfer from Ga Tech
Denver Jones, senior transfer from Florida International
Chaney Johnson, senior transfer from JUCO (UAH)
Dylan Cardwell, 5th year senior
Chris Moore, 5th year senior
JP Pegues, senior transfer from Furman
Summary, TLDR:
* Duke with 2 top 40 freshmen (1 generational player who cost $6M or so) as major contributors, 2 more top 40 freshman in 10-15 minute bench roles
* Florida with ZERO freshmen OR sophomores, senior backcourt made up of 3 kids who transferred from low/mid majors
* Houston also with ZERO freshmen OR sophomores playing any sort of rotational role, led by lower ranked upperclassman backcourt with a junior and 5th year senior as forwards, then 2 seniors and a junior rounding out their main rotation
* Auburn's best player (and 1st team AA) was an unranked 5th year transfer from Morehead St, had a single top 40 freshman who played 22 mpg off the bench, and then 7 seniors to round out their rotation
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Joel Goodson
- it's all ball bearings, nowadays
facts, schmacts, bro
Go back a year further, and only ONE top 40 freshman was a significant contributor for any of the Final Four teams. Go back two years further to 2023, and again only ONE top 40 freshman was a significant contributor for any Final Four teams. I kind of want to keep going...
If your take is that it's better to be led by good upperclassmen who have been in the program vs freshman then I wholeheartedly agree.
Yes, and I also just think with all of the movement there is now (we're now essentially just signing everyone to 1 year 'contracts') that you can get better players for $1, $2 and in some cases even $3 million than an inexperienced kid where there's a 70% chance he doesn't return the next year and you have to recruit another player. If you can get a top 40 recruit and they stay 2, 3 or more years that's great, but it is happening less and less it seems. It's also great if you have $6-8 million to spend on a Flagg or Dybansta, but sheesh...
Doesn't make sense...but honestly, neither does Petrovic. MP is a veteran professional basketball player
I sure ain't complaining though
Well, they all are professional players these days...and the NCAA's record in recent court cases is Washington General-esque. I expect a favorable decision, though it may not come until late March.
Doesn't make sense...but honestly, neither does Petrovic. MP is a veteran professional basketball player
Awesome analysis! You often hear about retention and age, but it's frequently generalized. There are always outliers, but it's interesting to see trends like this and how they affect the way all teams, including Illinois, recruit.
With that said, good, progressive strategies get turned into models and can be oversaturated and overemphasized, to the point where you have guys that have no high-major experience going for $4M+, with the expectation that they're all going to be Johni Broome or Walter Clayton.
My hope is that this year is our ahead-of-the-curve, Moneyball year, where there is an internal realization that these high-potential European guys are out there and relatively inexpensive, and there is some baked-in comfort and cohesiveness because they play similar games (or are twin brothers), which also matches up well against modern-day college basketball. Here's to hoping!
Few additional notes:
* Houston's starting backcourt: Cryer & Uzan both acquired via transfer portal
* Florida starting backcourt: Clayton, Richard & Martin all 3 acquired as mid-major transfers
* Auburn 1 freshman & 8 seniors made up rotation, 6 of the 8 being either JUCO or mid-major transfers
* 3 of the 5 first team All-Americans last year were mid-major transfers (Sears, Broome, Clayton)
RabidDawgClassic
- Los Angeles, CA
I did make it, and it IS a shirt.
If you’d like to buy one, I’ll provide a link to my store as soon as I clean up some minor details with Etsy.
RabidDawgClassic
- Los Angeles, CA
I did make it, and it IS a shirt.
If you’d like to buy one, I’ll provide a link to my store as soon as I clean up some minor details with Etsy.View attachment 44372
Here you go! Plus other "Balkan Illini" shirts.
Where my Vic'es at?
Is the 5 for 5 rule supposed to eliminate the loophole for colleges signing NBA or other professional league players? Is it 5 years to play 5 consecutive seasons? And the clock starts the minute you get on campus? So if you start college at 18, you are done at 23 regardless of what happened in your career (injury, transfer or otherwise)
That would certainly eliminate the possibility of colleges signing NBA players who washed out of the NBA but still played in college earlier in their career.
But for guys like the Euros and G Leaguers who never played in college, I suppose it’s legal that they get to play since their clock wouldn’t have started yet till they make it to campus.
I’m definitely losing interest in the sport. Most of the allure of college basketball is the path to college. Following a guys HS career and then the excitement of the freshmen and the progression. A sport of random free agency every season seems preposterous. Izzo is 100% right.
That would certainly eliminate the possibility of colleges signing NBA players who washed out of the NBA but still played in college earlier in their career.
But for guys like the Euros and G Leaguers who never played in college, I suppose it’s legal that they get to play since their clock wouldn’t have started yet till they make it to campus.
I’m definitely losing interest in the sport. Most of the allure of college basketball is the path to college. Following a guys HS career and then the excitement of the freshmen and the progression. A sport of random free agency every season seems preposterous. Izzo is 100% right.
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