I don't see many (any?) doomers- just people wishing for what could make us even better. I don't get why the expectation is for everyone to unquestionably sing the praises of whatever the current roster is (especially as the staff is said to be looking around for improvements).
Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread
chiefini
- Rockford, Illinois
I consider myself an optimist, one who tries to see the glass half full. I have had a hard time reading these recent recruiting threads, but I’ve read every single post. I often don’t monitor game threads in real time because too many naysayers make it too difficult to read. I think there’s a few people here on Loyalty who need to take a break (or leave altogether). To keep on negatively questioning Brad’s recruiting strategy after the wonderful season of accomplishment our Illini team and coaches had must really make for a miserable existence. I’m still extremely proud, and I’m still happily celebrating a Final Four season, and I’m truly looking forward to watching these fantastic and loyal players come back to make another run at a NC. Here’s to toasting we get it. Victory, Illinois, Varsity! #IlliniForLife
I never called anyone miserable or negative when it comes to this, so if that is directed at me, I think you have the wrong man.
And yes. Correct interpretation by you - I believe if the staff thinks they’re set with the rotation then I trust their evaluation of the current roster and what is currently available to them literally throughout the world. and it seems like you agree?
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For context the 5th options on the other Final Four teams this year were Burnett (Michigan), Demery or Ball (UConn), and Kharchenkov or Krivas (Arizona).
I hope Coleman can fill these level shoes in a year that may not have as dominant a team as this year's Michigan and Arizona. But it's still pretty early in the roster process (given NBA withdrawal deadline drags this out to late May). Florida and Michigan can still emerge as yet another couple top-to-bottom monster rosters. Michigan could already run a starting 5 of Cadeau, McKenney, McCoy, Morez, and Estrella and that's BEFORE any further roster upgrades.
I hope Coleman can fill these level shoes in a year that may not have as dominant a team as this year's Michigan and Arizona. But it's still pretty early in the roster process (given NBA withdrawal deadline drags this out to late May). Florida and Michigan can still emerge as yet another couple top-to-bottom monster rosters. Michigan could already run a starting 5 of Cadeau, McKenney, McCoy, Morez, and Estrella and that's BEFORE any further roster upgrades.
There really isn’t a mid major guard in the country who wants to come play 10-20 minutes a night at Illinois and compete for a national title??
You could tell a guy like Jalen Cox that he will play a minimum of 10 mpg and more if you beat out Coleman or Morillo… I think you could definitely find a player who would take that offer. Especially one who strikes out on the big market deals/roles like Cox has
Finding a guy who is 1. a better option that what you already have and 2. willing to play a limited role is extremely difficult. That said, it’s not really the biggest issue.
My dude! He was so fun!
socalini
- So Cali
What I don't understand is how we went from:
We're willing to spend millions on Blackwell, which would be the knockout punch that makes us a very likely preseason #1.
To:
We're good. Don't need to solidify the guard spot at all or use all/any of that money that we have available. Even though we really only have 2-3 true guards.
It really doesn't seem like an unreasonable take. It kinda feels like someone said "I'm leaving if you bring in another guard". I can't think of any other reason to not spend at least a portion of that money to make sure an injury doesn't derail next season.
At this point, I'd be relieved if Ty or Lee came back. I know Ty's not a guard, but he can be a Swiss Army knife when a need arises. Also could back up Mirk for short bursts.
We're willing to spend millions on Blackwell, which would be the knockout punch that makes us a very likely preseason #1.
To:
We're good. Don't need to solidify the guard spot at all or use all/any of that money that we have available. Even though we really only have 2-3 true guards.
It really doesn't seem like an unreasonable take. It kinda feels like someone said "I'm leaving if you bring in another guard". I can't think of any other reason to not spend at least a portion of that money to make sure an injury doesn't derail next season.
At this point, I'd be relieved if Ty or Lee came back. I know Ty's not a guard, but he can be a Swiss Army knife when a need arises. Also could back up Mirk for short bursts.
I for one trust the staff and insiders on this one, and you will not find me complaining on here as long as we get a healthy dose of offseason content to stave off the withdrawals…
Also was on a sabbatical for the weekend and was shocked to come back and see how many people were up in arms lol I thought top 10 retention in the country was a time of celebration
Also was on a sabbatical for the weekend and was shocked to come back and see how many people were up in arms lol I thought top 10 retention in the country was a time of celebration
IMO — there’s more reason to be concerned about Brown being 9th man than Coleman being 5th man.
Yes those were great teams this year; however, he just needs to be solid-to-good (think 9 or 10 per game; high 30s 3pt%) for us to be really good.
I’m (more) skeptical what happens once we get passed the first 8 (due to injury).
Two things can be true at the same time:
1. This is a top 5 roster right now.
2. The staff went after Blackwell to add on.
Alas, just because the staff wanted him, doesn't mean they automatically get him. I don't understand how so many people just don't understand that people other than Illini staff have agency in this offseason.
They've also said they'll look to add later in the summer, after they get a better idea of what they have and where their deficiencies lie, but it's a tough add since there is effectively an 8 man rotation in place anyway.
Begging for a return for Lee or Ty is pointless. They left because they understand there isn't a role for them in the lineup. Why don't the fans understand it?
1. This is a top 5 roster right now.
2. The staff went after Blackwell to add on.
Alas, just because the staff wanted him, doesn't mean they automatically get him. I don't understand how so many people just don't understand that people other than Illini staff have agency in this offseason.
They've also said they'll look to add later in the summer, after they get a better idea of what they have and where their deficiencies lie, but it's a tough add since there is effectively an 8 man rotation in place anyway.
Begging for a return for Lee or Ty is pointless. They left because they understand there isn't a role for them in the lineup. Why don't the fans understand it?
What I don't understand is why people think or assume that it is us that moved on and not the other party.
lstewart53x3
- Scottsdale, Arizona
Seems pretty simple to me:
— Heading into the off-season the staff prioritized retention, replacing Keaton as an on-ball creator, and the pursuit of Blackwell.
— They succeeded in both retention and landing an on-ball playmaker.
— The day Andrej agreed to return, we fell out of the running with Blackwell. 48 hours after that, our 5 star recruit who had committed, but had not signed, signed.
— The timing hints that either one or both of Andrej and Coleman would not be on next year’s team if the staff continued to pursue Blackwell.
— You can disagree with that decision and wish the staff would’ve prioritized Blackwell over #TheRetention, but based on the timeline, I don’t think there’s a world in which all 3 of Blackwell, Andrej, and Coleman are on next year’s team regardless of resources.
— I’d like some extra depth at guard too, but as others have pointed out, it doesn’t seem like it’s easy to attract a player better than Ethan Brown who’s also willing to be the 9th man in the rotation. Justin Harmon was pretty much that for the E8 team and in the NCAAT that year he literally averaged 1.25 points and 1.0 rebounds per game. Not sure a guy like that raises our ceiling or floor all that much.
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When Jake starts, the opposing D will spread out, and will begin to tire a bit.
Insert a fresh Drej and maybe he gets the lane a bit more open, and gets a half step advantage.
If so, from a team standpoint, this might be the better approach than Drej starting.
There are a lot of dubious premises baked into this. For example:
“The day Andrej agreed to return, we fell out of the running with Blackwell.”
“The timing hints that either one or or both of Andrej and Coleman would not be on next year’s team if the staff continued to pursue Blackwell.”
“I don’t think there’s a world where all 3 of Blackwell, Andrej, and Coleman are on next year’s team regardless of resources.”
Why are any of these necessarily true? Let’s really interrogate these presumptions instead of just accepting them a priori.
The reality is we were a 7 loss or 8 loss team and we lost our best player. And we are probably not going to get a 9 seed in the Elite Eight again (assuming we even get that far). So, sorry if I’m skeptical this is the year we finally go the distance without a Blackwell to put us over the top.
Good, hope they dont use him hardly at all then.
socalini
- So Cali
That's not at all how I view it. Of course I'm happy with the retention and I wouldn't trade it for 2 Blackwells. I just don't understand the pivot from a top five portal player to "nah, we're good". And I understand it was him, not us, that backed off.
Not everyone in the portal thinks they're going to be a $4 million, 30 mpg starter and potential lottery pick. Im sure there are some who would love the challenge of working hard for a small role on a Final Four level roster. A team that is literally a bit short on experienced guards.
Again, I don't see why this is such a hot take to some here. I'm not trying to shoot down those who think we're good to go. Just expressing my opinion.
1. Wasn't Blackwell a "better option than we already have"? And we pursued him anyway.
2. Why is it "now" assumed that anyone that comes in will "play a limited role"? Why not pursue another big time player? I don't care if that means less minutes for the freshman, Jake Davis, or whomever that can't keep up. We were willing to risk it to bring in Blackwell.
Why do teams like Duke and Michigan (last year and this year) not worry about this? They just grab every Blackwell (or better) type player than can get and let it work itself out as they pursue a NC. And all their players (including freshman) accept this and stay on the team. Why cant we do that?
You evidently didn’t get the marching orders. Just last week, we all loved Blackwell and considered him critical to putting us over the top. But now we don’t need him and will be champs without him because… uh… we just will, OK!?
Don’t question it; just fall in line, comrade. The edict hath been decreed from on high, and dissenting opinions have no refuge here.
lstewart53x3
- Scottsdale, Arizona
So you think it was coincidence that the day Andrej announced his return, we dropped out of the running for Blackwell? Literally within minutes of it?
And less than 2 days later, Coleman who could’ve signed earlier, but chose not to, signed?
Based on timeline alone, it’s pretty obvious we weren’t getting all 3 of Andrej, Coleman, and Blackwell.
Whether or not we should more aggressively pursue a 9th man in the rotation, I’ll let others debate on.
socalini
- So Cali
I'm not saying any of those things. I literally noted that that was what the timing made it seem like in my first post.
It's irrelevant to my main argument that we could still use another guard.
Why not all three if this is a legitimate Final Four program?