Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread

[HereSoIDontGetFined]

A Final 4?

And that worked out because we didn't have to rely on him.

We thought Petro was going to come in and be a standout because of his experience and that Wagler would be a decent shooter but otherwise a freshman. That didn't work out. Instead, those roles were more or less reversed, with Petrovic being an even worse shooter than we thought.

If Coleman comes in and is immediately Wagler level, then that's great. But that seems unlikely.

I think it's more likely we are simply a different type of team this year. I think Crocker has his work cut out for him in planning on the defensive end. Boswell covered up a lot of problems for us there.

 

[Homecoming 2019]

And that worked out because we didn't have to rely on him.

We thought Petro was going to come in and be a standout because of his experience and that Wagler would be a decent shooter but otherwise a freshman. That didn't work out. Instead, those roles were more or less reversed, with Petrovic being an even worse shooter than we thought.

If Coleman comes in and is immediately Wagler level, then that's great. But that seems unlikely.

I think it's more likely we are simply a different type of team this year. I think Crocker has his work cut out for him in planning on the defensive end. Boswell covered up a lot of problems for us there.

I'm not gonna speculate just like I didn't with jhey and the cubs in 2016. All I know is we added petro and made a final 4

 

[Calvin]

Two things can be true at the same time:

1. This is a top 5 roster right now.

2. The staff went after Blackwell to add on.

Alas, just because the staff wanted him, doesn't mean they automatically get him. I don't understand how so many people just don't understand that people other than Illini staff have agency in this offseason.

They've also said they'll look to add later in the summer, after they get a better idea of what they have and where their deficiencies lie, but it's a tough add since there is effectively an 8 man rotation in place anyway.

Begging for a return for Lee or Ty is pointless. They left because they understand there isn't a role for them in the lineup. Why don't the fans understand it?

+1
In the not long ago, I felt sorry for guys who got pushed down the rotation, even if it was because some superstar like Keaton emerged. We know how dirty recruiting got pre-NIL. But now, players have a ton of options where they can move around to find a good fit with compensation.

The way the staff have evaluated, I don't see why the arm-chair Illini are too worried. You're going to have hits and misses, but they've shown tremendous skill in roster building, understanding value and retention. The mix of players here has a ton of potential, and a lot already proven. And they'll keep scanning while the off-season progresses. This is going to be a really fun team to root for next season.

 

[Mobi]

https://twitter.com/x/status/2046358346693820589

We shall see...

 

[okrush]

There's no exaggeration. Let's do a thought exercise: Say one of our freshmen next year was guaranteed to shoot over 48% from 3 in medium high volume. You wouldn't consider that exceptional and take that in a heartbeat? A Jake Davis who shoots 48.2% instead of 40.6%? And what if Vaaks comes in here and shoots over 40% from 3 on extremely high volume. Is that not adequate enough for you? That's Alfonso Plummer level shooting...

And yes, our team last year was better and more talented than that one was. But why trash former teams and players in absolutely nonsensical manners? There have been some strange strange strange arguments this thread.

My post was in response to someone saying this years team was going to be like the 2005-2006, which is silly. It’s not like there wasn’t other good players on that team but it’s not close to the balance and depth this next years team will have.

I loved that 2005-2006 team and was in krush every game, and traveled to see them. The weakness of the 2005-2006 team though was you had Auggie and Dee, and then thereafter you had talented but a big drop off with one dimensional guys that played roles but also didn’t raise the ceiling of that team enough to envision a final four (unless you were still drunk on the kool aid of the prior year). The fact of not having further elite talent like Auggie or Dee (exceptions like McCamey) after that year is how the ship truly sank until Underwood arrived. That’s not to say we didn’t have several lovable players (like Chester) in that era.

 

[Illini in Indiana]

WE DO NOT NEED THE THREE FRESHMAN TO BE PERFECT OR GREAT. ITS NOT CRAZY TO ASK TOP 50 RECRUITS TO BE THE FIFTH AND EIGHT OPTIONS ON A REALLY GOOD TEAM.

Thanks, and most of us completely agree!

- we've kept the guys we wanted - crazy with the talent level
- we are a contender out of the gate -Kentucky, NC, Indiana, .... would trade us rosters right now
- we've put the freshman point guards in the 1st round of the last 2 NBA draft (counting this year)
- we may be in the greatest season of Illini basketball in my life (I've been a fan 50+ years)
- I trust the system, and appreciate the insides sharing insights - I visit 2-3 times daily

 

[NarrowJ]

For all who are wondering why we have $5M for Blackwell but can’t use it for another equal player:

My understanding via tea leaves is there was someone (or 2 or 3 someones) who said if we can get Blackwell they’ll write a check. He’s a great player and legacy through Glynn.

If Blackwell says “no thanks I need more usage or shot attempts than you can offer me” then it’s not like those someones still have to give/donate.

Also, it seems we will add one more during the summer. But, again, it’s not from this pool of “Blackwell money” so this player isn’t guaranteed to be an elite one.

 

[Mobi]

I could see Coleman playing the Andrej role of coming off the bench. Jake starts but Coleman still gets the most minutes.

This explains it. I felt like we were more efficient actually when Andrej came off from the bench last year. Only one ball. Blackwell or whoever fits in that role probably saw that, too? There might be one guy needed to go from the bench and they are less likely to do that to Andrej this year.

 

[Mobi]

Perfect. Thank you for responding. I get it he doesn't want to come because the usage isn't there, I get it. Facts are there are still over 1,000 players still in the portal probably closer to 2K. There is no doubt that there are players out there that want to come whether it be price, championship aspirations whatever it may be. If in fact they want the best chance to win they will continue adding. Thank you for letting me know they aren't done. We can't rely on 4 freshmen in the top 10. I will stand by

This is not cut and dry. If you are recruiting a player almost as good as Blackwell, you'll likely run into the same issues. Should the staff try it anyway? I think so but don't say they are not just cuz we are not aware.

 

[RockfordIllini]

Thanks, and most of us completely agree!

- we've kept the guys we wanted - crazy with the talent level
- we are a contender out of the gate -Kentucky, NC, Indiana, .... would trade us rosters right now
- we've put the freshman point guards in the 1st round of the last 2 NBA draft (counting this year)
- we may be in the greatest season of Illini basketball in my life (I've been a fan 50+ years)
- I trust the system, and appreciate the insides sharing insights - I visit 2-3 times daily

Agree. I’m thrilled with where the program is and not worried at all about “missing” on Blackwell. It’s as much about role and fit as it is about overall talent. There are tons of examples in the portal/NIL era of high priced teams that underachieved because the fit wasn’t right or guys weren’t bought into their roles. Indiana and Kentucky have been notorious for this problem the last few years, and I would argue Kansas has suffered from similar problems.

So while Blackwell might be the better overall player (right now), Coleman may be better suited for the role of 4th/5th option as a spot up shooter and occasional playmaker. In fact I’m optimistic we are setting up Coleman to succeed because his role should be simplified, vs handing him the keys and asking him to get it right away (and who knows, maybe he takes the role from Vaaks and is another lottery pick). And Morillo should be able to have success matchup hunting against second units.

We will never know the counter factual, but there are risks with a roster that both includes Blackwell and doesn’t include Blackwell. What I do know is I love our top 8. Brown has potential to be our 9th guy. And if Jaskstys is back and healthy, he’s a great option as an emergency big (light years better than Brandon Lieb).

If we are in a position where we are sweating who our 9th guy is and have questions about how effective our emergency big will be, we are in a great position.

 

[WyattEarp]

WE DO NOT NEED THE THREE FRESHMAN TO BE PERFECT OR GREAT. ITS NOT CRAZY TO ASK TOP 50 RECRUITS TO BE THE FIFTH AND EIGHT OPTIONS ON A REALLY GOOD TEAM.

No, it shouldn’t be. Absolutely.

 

[tatupu70]

5% of loyalty: people who think we’re going to be bad and who clearly don’t know anything about basketball

90% of loyalty: people complaining about those people as if there is way more of it than there actually is

The other 5%: insiders trying to find out if they should give us any more info

Who are the 5% that think we're going to be bad exactly? Maybe I missed it, but I've never seen anyone say that. Some posters wish IL had signed Blackwell, or wish IL would get a backup point guard. That's pretty clearly not saying the team is going to be bad.

The guys who can't stand any post that is not 100% rah-rah are a little ridiculous.

 

[Mobi]

Seems pretty simple to me:

— Heading into the off-season the staff prioritized retention, replacing Keaton as an on-ball creator, and the pursuit of Blackwell.

— They succeeded in both retention and landing an on-ball playmaker.

— The day Andrej agreed to return, we fell out of the running with Blackwell. 48 hours after that, our 5 star recruit who had committed, but had not signed, signed.

— The timing hints that either one or both of Andrej and Coleman would not be on next year’s team if the staff continued to pursue Blackwell.

— You can disagree with that decision and wish the staff would’ve prioritized Blackwell over #TheRetention, but based on the timeline, I don’t think there’s a world in which all 3 of Blackwell, Andrej, and Coleman are on next year’s team regardless of resources.

— I’d like some extra depth at guard too, but as others have pointed out, it doesn’t seem like it’s easy to attract a player better than Ethan Brown who’s also willing to be the 9th man in the rotation. Justin Harmon was pretty much that for the E8 team and in the NCAAT that year he literally averaged 1.25 points and 1.0 rebounds per game. Not sure a guy like that raises our ceiling or floor all that much.

Now they are signed, we can pursuit a player better than Coleman who is not named Blackwell.

 

[WyattEarp]

For all who are wondering why we have $5M for Blackwell but can’t use it for another equal player:

My understanding via tea leaves is there was someone (or 2 or 3 someones) who said if we can get Blackwell they’ll write a check. He’s a great player and legacy through Glynn.

If Blackwell says “no thanks I need more usage or shot attempts than you can offer me” then it’s not like those someones still have to give/donate.

Also, it seems we will add one more during the summer. But, again, it’s not from this pool of “Blackwell money” so this player isn’t guaranteed to be an elite one.

That explains a lot, actually. That’s probably spot on.

 

[RabidDawgClassic]

 

[Heisenbobble]

Has Vaaks signed yet? Does he plan to sign at all or just show up for summer workouts?

 

[LvilleILL1]

For context the 5th options on the other Final Four teams this year were Burnett (Michigan), Demery or Ball (UConn), and Kharchenkov or Krivas (Arizona).

I hope Coleman can fill these level shoes in a year that may not have as dominant a team as this year's Michigan and Arizona. But it's still pretty early in the roster process (given NBA withdrawal deadline drags this out to late May). Florida and Michigan can still emerge as yet another couple top-to-bottom monster rosters. Michigan could already run a starting 5 of Cadeau, McKenney, McCoy, Morez, and Estrella and that's BEFORE any further roster upgrades.

Being skeptical on Coleman and not McCoy here is just pure doomerism.

 

[RollChief]

Who are the 5% that think we're going to be bad exactly? Maybe I missed it, but I've never seen anyone say that. Some posters wish IL had signed Blackwell, or wish IL would get a backup point guard. That's pretty clearly not saying the team is going to be bad.

The guys who can't stand any post that is not 100% rah-rah are a little ridiculous.

I don't think anyone gets annoyed with the initial line of questioning about why not sign Blackwell, or why not recruit a backup guard. I think it gets old continuously and thoroughly answering for the reasoning behind Blackwell most likely not coming here and not getting a backup PG at this point. They're recruiting guys who are multi-dimensional and can be serviceable or good in many or all positions. It's a luxury to have good guards, and winning the lottery to also have your 3 and 4 who can bring the ball up. It makes it so you don't really have to have a backup point guard.

There's a good reason Petrovic didn't play last year. He is an elite distributor, but proved that he couldn't grow elsewhere and fit in multiple positions.

I think the frustration more so comes from having to answer the same questions over and over again. It's like if you have a work meeting and someone chooses not to pay attention the whole meeting and then continues to ask basic questions that were already answered. It's annoying and it holds back the whole group, and there's probably more interesting or productive things to talk about then burning more oxygen on something that's already been put to bed.

 

[Uihoop2023!]

Why not all three if this is a legitimate Final Four program?

Do you think it was Illinois choice to not have all 3? These kids want to play big minutes. Coleman didnt sign until Blackwell was out of the equation. Blackwell camp backed off soon after Andre announced coming back. These are not coincidences.

 

[LvilleILL1]

People in here need to understand that the talent across college basketball next year is not going to be the same as this year. There is not going to be an Arizona or Michigan like superteam, the transfers aren't as good overall, and the recruits aren't as high end compared to last year in terms of the elites.

Illinois has one of the four or five best rosters is the country. Could they push and add another stud? Sure, but it's not that easy. There are agents and other factors involved with that. I still stand by my thinking that they add someone over the next few months.

There are a ton of teams that have half a roster filled out with not a lot of options left, including blue bloods. It's okay to want more, but we are set to contend for a national championship next year. Have some faith in the evaluations that the staff made in Coleman and Morillo.

 

[Turn N’ Burn]

People in here need to understand that the talent across college basketball next year is not going to be the same as this year. There is not going to be an Arizona or Michigan like superteam, the transfers aren't as good overall, and the recruits aren't as high end compared to last year in terms of the elites.

Illinois has one of the four or five best rosters is the country. Could they push and add another stud? Sure, but it's not that easy. There are agents and other factors involved with that. I still stand by my thinking that they add someone over the next few months.

There are a ton of teams that have half a roster filled out with not a lot of options left, including blue bloods. It's okay to want more, but we are set to contend for a national championship next year. Have some faith in the evaluations that the staff made in Coleman and Morillo.

 

[LouHenson]

It’s so simple Andrej signs no more Blackwell then Coleman signs. You have to trust the staff at this point that they felt Coleman would be a better fit for us than Blackwell as your initial premise? Now maybe it was Blackwell saying I don’t want to share the ball with Coleman/Andrej is clearly possible, but to ignore the sequence of events and timing and not at least consider your initial premise to be correct seems “blind”?

HS recruits are so different now than in the past, but still a 5recruit not getting major minutes at Illinois for the past 60 years is sort of crazy? I like Andrej very much and in my opinion if it was (through whatever circumstances) 2/3 was all we could get? Then I am totally fine with how we did it.

Replace Ben far more important if you ask me?

 

[joeybcrazy13]

Call back Petro ... then shut it down!!! ILLSorry Glynn we tried!!!

 

[ChiefGritty]

Being skeptical on Coleman and not McCoy here is just pure doomerism.

I mean McCoy is rated higher, but I'm not sure everybody has clocked that Coleman is now a 5-star in the 247 composite rating.

Between the ranking, the timing and manner in which we recruited him, watching him on film, and his very strong shooting ability, every indicator of "this guy is going to play a lot right away and help the team" is there. It's an Adam Miller-like situation there, I think, and if Coleman can guard anything like Miller it will be a huge boost.

But all of that is a different question from whether we've assembled the right traits in the team as a whole. Coleman and Morillo look like really promising players and contributors, but neither is a point guard or a true big, and the players they are replacing (Boswell and Humrichous) were valuable for us precisely because they gave the team those capabilities.

That's a solvable problem but 1. the team is going to have to play differently and 2. it would be good to supplement in at least one of those areas.

The staff felt if they added another big piece that it would unsettle the Jenga tower and push others out the door, which is sound thinking and we brought back excellent players and are in a great position. The portal closes soon (tonight?) at which point our guys are locked in (has Vaaks signed?) and it seems we will wait until we're sure addition doesn't create subtraction to put the finishing touch on, that's sensible enough.

 

[Illiniblueorange]

This is a great time of the year to see how our team unfolds but holy Sh*t people you need help !

I would definately hate to be an insider here and bring some really good news and have a bunch of morons crucify the news.

If you cant see how ELITE this team can be next year maybe you should switch to needlepoint .