Same neck of the woods, but I believe Chris Gandy went to nearby Bradley-Bourbonnais. But I agree, great to have another Illinois kid on the roster
Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread
It's telling that he didn't commit until his Senior year grades would be available.
Have to assume that academics scared off a lot of teams...less eyes = less chatter = lower ranking
Where do you rank Zens at each role to think he will play much in nig games? He is buried even further down the depth chart in his role than Ty who decided to redshirt 2 years ago and Lee last year was at the 2/3. Where are you thinking Zens fits or placing Zens at the 2/3 in the rotation? Its easy to say he id the 9th best player and he likely is but he can still be buried. The 2 i feel is QC, Dre. Lucas and the 3 is Dre, Jake. Lucas and then Zens. Ty redshirted 2 years ago in a similar spot and Lee barely played and was a pretty good player.
Too soon
Seems like a real possibility. If he's a dominant erupt I hope he sticks around and we get to see it
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
He sorta didn't though.
Top 10 in the preseason to an 8 seed, then top 15 in the preseason to 16-17 (6-12). Then he left and has continued to disappoint with NIL create-a-teams at USC.
I can't say I really understand WHY Musselman isn't succeeding since portal world and NIL really intensified, but the downturn in his performance has been sharp and continuous.
Totally, and I'm thrilled about #TheRetention, but those are proven star players.
Purdue is spending their NIL money on unproven bench guys who they have recruited and developed to step up into the spotlight. That was the past of this sport, and we want it to be the future too.
Depends on if the 9th man gets hurt...then Big trouble!
Here's his ranking history:
Lincoln Williams at Kankakee Recruit Rank History
247sports.com
For the most part, he's always trended downward from where he started (rankings come out sophmore year) -- but was doing okay until Jan 17 of this year. After that, it kind of spiraled.
.....
Obviously, it's said that he wasn't an "NCAA qualifier" for alot of the recruiting process, and only became eligible in recent weeks.
Not sure there are any frosh who look at the roster retention from a FF team and think they can crack it for big minutes. I have to believe they are all smart enough to learn, grow their skills, and develop phlysically while being part of a great team. They will all get on the floor, just not for 30 min. other than "Kooleymon" whose talents are needed. But next year, will be a dog fight for min. which will be available. Being bluntly honest and open with this talented bunch of frosh is a plus in my mind. They are not stupid.
And yes, Williams seems to me to have a big future for the Illini.
I think he could turn into a poor man's Castle (just like Mirk is a poor man's Jokic).
Kankakee is northern IL and Iguodala was the 26th ranked recruit by Scout in '02 (vs 197th), but otherwise spot on!
lstewart53x3
- Scottsdale, Arizona
Can’t lose early in the tourney if you don’t make the tourney8 paragraphs in near mouth-frothing level defense of an opposing B1G coach with a 51-49 record over 3 seasons in which he’s made the tourney zero times
Weren’t we firing Brad after the BTT?
Joel Goodson
- it's all ball bearings, nowadays
the dogfight starts this week
I mean, anything is arguable if you try hard enough...
I think it's fair to say that he had a comparable trajectory to Brad up until 2023, but has consistently and dramatically underperformed since then. I get what you're saying about unfortunate/unexpected events & injuries, but every team/roster faces some kind of adversity, and it speaks to the coach on whether they can navigate it (Underwood) or if the season implodes because of it (Musselman).
Perhaps one of the most objective ways to look at coaching performance is beginning team rank on KenPom (expectations backed up by empirical data) vs ending rank (actual observed results). I've put together a side-by-side to show Underwood's performance vs. Musselman's, which is below. Underwood has consistently outperformed expectations, ending the season with a worse KP rank only twice in the past 13 seasons. Comparing this to Musselman, he has only outperformed expectations 4 times in 11 seasons, and hasn't done it since 2021. He has only outperformed expectations with a high major 1 time.
In fairness, the one thing that I will give him is that up until 2023, he had a track record of outperforming expectations in the tournament (although he took Nevada to the S16, not the E8). With that said, I'd take the coach on the left 100 times out of 100 vs the coach on the right.
He needs to prove he can win- AGAIN.
He more than likely will too…at some point.
He’s a brilliant X’s and O’s guy. (Great defensive mind especially) He’s kinda like if Painter/Otz were a short-stack narcissist with ADHD.
BUT that seat is getting pretty warm now.
If he has another underperforming season & these expensive roster(s) he’s prolly done like dinner at USC.
Yet, if he figures out chemistry and can maintain a healthy locker room. It might end up being a Hoiberg-like arc. But I don’t think he’s figured out the portal like Pitino has. (If he’s gonna keep trying to build rosters like that.)
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Absolutely love the competition amongst the freshman. That we have this many guys buying in to likely be at the end of the bench and developing. Coaches get a full year look before needing minutes out of any of them.
Brown, Zens, Williams, and Davis have opportunity to earn their minutes like Wagler.
Brown, Zens, Williams, and Davis have opportunity to earn their minutes like Wagler.
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
Musselman's last Nevada team being something of a disappointment is a great point I had forgotten.
All credit to the data robustness in your post, but for me it can be distilled into something much simpler.
In Summer 2023 Musselman and Underwood were very comparable coaches in terms of their reputations and resumes to that point. The most notable difference would be that Underwood had stronger success in the regular season, especially within conference play, and Musselman had stronger results in the NCAA tournament.
I firmly, firmly believe that conference play is the strongest predictive indicator of a good coach and that the tournament is the weakest. And I submit the last three years of these two coaches (both of whom have continued to be A+ recruiters) as evidence for that proposition.
Marquette being in the top 10 is criminal ... I would not even have them top 25 ... And probably closer to 50 than 25 ...
Do we? Seems like the influx of freshman this year is two top 40 dudes (which we will hopefully continue to do) and a bunch of lotto tickets.
I think the expectation is for the staff to be going hard for 3-4 transfers/euros a al Vaaks/Stoj/TSJ/Boz/KJ/Mayer(lol)/etc., particularly if this year goes to plan and we lose 5 of our top 7.
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Yeah good points, the main take away from the data is that if you remove a few tournament runs that prop up his reputation, describing his resume as mediocre would probably be an overstatement.
In the spirit of this particular thread, he is a good recruiter, but I don’t think I could be convinced that he is currently a good coach, especially P5.